Be care fully on jetblue with a wheelchair

[disney david]

Just spent over two hour delay because they broke a passenger wheelchair. The bad part is that it was a special made chair and he couldn't really use another one.


Now here some good out of this if you ever and hope you never do have a medical emergency at the airport rest assured their fire department are made up of caring and hard working men and women. They tried everything they could to fix it including being asked by the mother to try to repair two cables broken by jet blue they was their over a hour trying to help. Other passengers was trying to help get the wheelchair fixes but they couldn't they offered to take the son to hospital but the mother didn't want to. They helped her to her car with her bags and oxygen and told her to call her fire department when she gets home to help they couldn't leave the airport I think she said Daytona. They felt bad they had only two choice hospital or helping her to her car which the mother was not to happy but finally agreed to. It was not the fire department fault they was trying to help but had few choices thanks to jet blue breaking te chair. Everyone was upset they did it and couldn't believe how poor jet blue handled it. I told them that they should never took it a part or they should of asked them hows the best why so they didn't break it the Orlando team said they didn't it was the crew at the other airport.

 

[SueM in MN]

I just want to point out that no airline is immune to damaging a wheelchair, especially a power wheelchair.
Wheelchairs have a lot of things that stick out and can get caught. Power wheelchairs look pretty tough, but actually have a lot of fragile parts. They sometimes won't fit in an airplane standing up and might be put in sideways, which can increase the chance of damage.

It is important to prepare the wheelchair for flight (see the post about air travel in the disABILITIES FAQs thread) and, especially with a power chair, have instructions on what can be removed or how it should be handled.
We've been advised by our DD's wheelchair tech to remove the controller, take it with us inside the plane and make sure to tape any loose wires to the wheelchair if we travel with her power chair.

Also, inspect it for damage ASAP after you get off the plane and report he damage. At that point, there is very little the airline can do to fix a damaged chair, but they are responsible and liable for repairs.
It sounds like Jet Blue did what they could, but at that point, there is very little that will fix broken wires.

 

[disney david]

I just want to point out that no airline is immune to damaging a wheelchair, especially a power wheelchair.
Wheelchairs have a lot of things that stick out and can get caught. Power wheelchairs look pretty tough, but actually have a lot of fragile parts. They sometimes won't fit in an airplane standing up and might be put in sideways, which can increase the chance of damage.

It is important to prepare the wheelchair for flight (see the post about air travel in the disABILITIES FAQs thread) and, especially with a power chair, have instructions on what can be removed or how it should be handled.
We've been advised by our DD's wheelchair tech to remove the controller, take it with us inside the plane and make sure to tape any loose wires to the wheelchair if we travel with her power chair.

Also, inspect it for damage ASAP after you get off the plane and report he damage. At that point, there is very little the airline can do to fix a damaged chair, but they are responsible and liable for repairs.
It sounds like Jet Blue did what they could, but at that point, there is very little that will fix broken wires.

I know sue but just how jet blue handles it shocked me. After seeing one of their bag handlers pushing it through the terminal I knew they broke it and after he said to another employee that it wouldn't start. It wouldn't start because they split two cables and the fire department after being called over 30 min in couldn't reconnect it. It was just shocking to see the fire department doing more to help then jet blue the mother wouldn't let them take her son off the plane until jet blue agreed to pay to replace it. So she used the anger of us and at her blue to her advantage which I don't blame everyone was mad at her blue and felt bad for the mother. When they final brought them out everyone stayed quiet and respectful which was nice to see because it could of went the other way quick their was very angry people. They want the police to come and force the issue if safely removing the person and having them being taken care of in the terminal. I guess when he came out and they saw his oxygen they final saw that it was not as easy as they thought to remove him. All jet blue kept saying is their dealing with a guest issue like he refusing to leave the plane then they go into medical emergency after an hour being their which they caused by breaking the chair in the first place. They should if called the fire department a lot sooner then they did to make sure that he was okay.

It was just shocking all jet blue employees from the manager to customer service was acting like it was he mother fault and they didn't want to be troubled helping her. But if they didn't break the chair the. It would of been may be five min to get him off they would if been on their way home instead it lasted over two hours.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I know sue but just how jet blue handles it shocked me. After seeing one of their bag handlers pushing it through the terminal I knew they broke it and after he said to another employee that it wouldn't start.

Just seeing a power operated mobility aid being pushed tells you very little about damage or not. Those of us that use a powerchair and are known to the pittfalls of flying and esp. crew that might handle it, many times actually make sure it is impossible for ANYONE to operate the chair and handlers must push it in freewheel mode (which turns it into a pushable chair, instead of normally it not being an option). I actively remove my joystick and fully disable power to such an extend they can not use it, nor override it, without me being there. I know I'm in company of many others who do the same.

Giving any chance of them switching on or overriding power (after all, all of these aids work on overly simple basic electric knowledge and any nitwit can override once knowing this) is asking for an increase in risk. Driving all to easily leads to running into walls during loading or unloading when spaces are tight or even in an almost empty terminal because each chair and each navigating system is tweaked to the individual and thus reacts differently which can easily lead to "out of control" when used by those not commonly using them.

You will not see anyone at MCO handle my powerchair in any other way but pushing it. Yet, it is very very unlikely my powerchair is not operating while you see it being handled said way. Being able to switch power and used that way by handlers results in more damaged powerchairs than dropping them during loading or offloading or making a too tight corner/shuving during loading (scraping along plane wall is known to cause damage, esp. to wiring that sometimes is lead around the outside of some parts of chairs) at the airports I've got my proper info sources for. And those are airports that include loading by using a belt (higher damage risk than platform loading) for instance.

So don't think the worst just because you see pushing. Most of the times it's actually a good sign, thankfully.

 

[disney david]

Just seeing a power operated mobility aid being pushed tells you very little about damage or not. Those of us that use a powerchair and are known to the pittfalls of flying and esp. crew that might handle it, many times actually make sure it is impossible for ANYONE to operate the chair and handlers must push it in freewheel mode (which turns it into a pushable chair, instead of normally it not being an option). I actively remove my joystick and fully disable power to such an extend they can not use it, nor override it, without me being there. I know I'm in company of many others who do the same.

Giving any chance of them switching on or overriding power (after all, all of these aids work on overly simple basic electric knowledge and any nitwit can override once knowing this) is asking for an increase in risk. Driving all to easily leads to running into walls during loading or unloading when spaces are tight or even in an almost empty terminal because each chair and each navigating system is tweaked to the individual and thus reacts differently which can easily lead to "out of control" when used by those not commonly using them.

You will not see anyone at MCO handle my powerchair in any other way but pushing it. Yet, it is very very unlikely my powerchair is not operating while you see it being handled said way. Being able to switch power and used that way by handlers results in more damaged powerchairs than dropping them during loading or offloading or making a too tight corner/shuving during loading (scraping along plane wall is known to cause damage, esp. to wiring that sometimes is lead around the outside of some parts of chairs) at the airports I've got my proper info sources for. And those are airports that include loading by using a belt (higher damage risk than platform loading) for instance.

So don't think the worst just because you see pushing. Most of the times it's actually a good sign, thankfully.

Your right it was a power chair but you could tell he was laboring to move it the front wheels locked. So he was forcing it to move forward I guess the two wire that broke was te cause because when the mother came out and the fire department was trying everything she said the motor was not running and when they took him off they had to tilt the chair back wards to get it to move because the front wheels would not move. Yes pushing it I don't think damaged it maybe just made the wheels lock but seeing the person face and then seeing him point to the switch and move it and nothing happens and him saying they took the chair apart and now it dose not work. So I think pushing it caused the front wheels to lock because of the two cables being broken off. The worst hung is beside breaking it was another wheelchair wouldn't work because he need to be strapped in and it was made for him. The plane was delayed getting their because they most likely had problems loading he chair. They couldn't get it to go in manual mode the mother or another passenger who called someone who had that model so that also shows that by pushing it without in manual mode was not the best idea. They kept saying something about a key to release it and it was in her checked bag which they would of gotten for her but it just wouldn't of done much. So the firemen two on each side wheeled him out by tipping his chair backwards they was holding his hands and talking to him they acted so much more better then jet blue did. I am sure this will give the fire department something to train for more because they wanted to fix the wheelchair so bad for the mother. To the point they was stripping wire and trying to reconnect the wire.

 

[disney david]

First I am not in any way trying to offend anyone in a wheelchair I am sorry if I did i was just trying to share something to look out for. If you know the best way to take a part your Power or regular wheelchair please let them know and let them know what to be carefully of to.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Not exonerating jetBlue in any way, and this is just a rhetorical question (understanding that the OP wouldn't have any way of knowing the answer) - if, according to the mother, it's bad for the power chair to be pushed in manual mode why was its key in her checked luggage?

 

[disney david]

Not exonerating jetBlue in any way, and this is just a rhetorical question (understanding that the OP wouldn't have any way of knowing the answer) - if, according to the mother, it's bad for the power chair to be pushed in manual mode why was its key in her checked luggage?

Sorry their was something in her luggage one o the firemen said she had the key to put in manual mode so not really sure if that was what in the checked bag or not. And when she was out trying to fix it she said something in her checked bag and the fire men said that not a problem to take you their to get but wouldn't really help because of the wire broken and the front when locked. I think the mother thought they would put the chair underneath as is then they could move it with the joy stick. But her blue took it apart breaking two wires which then they couldn't move so they pushed the chair most likely breaking it more then just coming up and telling her what happened. And seeing what she suggested on how to move it. The chair didn't look easy to put in manual mode because the firemen couldn't move it. So they had to tip it and use the back wheel because the front ones was locked. It want a standard power chair the seat was at a angle and had straps for him. When they was leaving she had a back pack and another bag and an oxygen device so not sure if they brought the bag to her or if it was her carry on it looked like carry on but each women had bags. They and bolt tried every switch if they pulled it they got it to move enough to bring it back on the plane but seeing about six people from the fire department standing around it trying to figure it out with a passenger calling someone and the trying everything she said then the mother coming out on her phone then trying again with nothing worked.

 

[disney david]

Not exonerating jetBlue in any way, and this is just a rhetorical question (understanding that the OP wouldn't have any way of knowing the answer) - if, according to the mother, it's bad for the power chair to be pushed in manual mode why was its key in her checked luggage?

I think if they could get it in manual mode it would of been okay for them to push but not sure if jet blue baggage handler knew how to or was able to because they had to put the chair back together and the wire being broken the joy stick display was just showing yellow. Their was another guest who ha their personnel wheelchair but it was not a power chair and they could carry it up to the jet way the other chair they had to go around and come through the terminal.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

First I am not in any way trying to offend anyone in a wheelchair I am sorry if I did i was just trying to share something to look out for. If you know the best way to take a part your Power or regular wheelchair please let them know and let them know what to be carefully of to.

Can only speak for myself, but it takes a LOT more to offend me. Seriously, I didn't even see this anything other than just a discussion, just like we could've been talking about cupcakes or muppets.


Pushing a powerchair can look difficult, esp. for those handlers that are not in shape. Quite a few I've found but it gives them a good work out.


Most brands I know (am less well-known with all the US options as compared to how indepth I am with our options) would make it dead impossible to push unless unlocking the chair into freewheel option. This option is specifically for pushing. Most are simply too heavy to push without being in this option but I do know of some types or brands that actively lock wheels when not in this position and trying to move them by pushing. Another option could be with the wiring. Official guidlines are that the chair shouldn't be able to switch on in flight. Many chairs have options that allow you to disable the power by one switch of a button. Not the "off" button on the joystick (this will still keep the powercircuit in motion and would have chair able to move by pushing "on" button on joystick), but another more difficult switch. One that can not switch on "accident", by bumping heavy baggage into it etc. This is a switch that does cuts the powercircuit. No moving possible period. If you know to have this option, easiest way to fly. Obviously.

But, most airline and ground handling crew have no clue about these aids. Thus not knowing about these options and thus thinking the only safe way is to take off the wiring to the battery or take battery out. This is a dangerous thinking, it has caused all kinds of trouble since they sometimes tend to take upon themselves to "take care of safety". Most of the times that would result in cutting wires or removeing batteries in an unsafe way. I've had it happen more than once where I've had to explain and re-explain. Big reason why I now have a picture guideline on my chair to show them how this one "powercircuit interrupted button" takes care of thing and how this can be checked and block of my battery so they can not get to it. But, that is another point where things have gone wrong with multiple powerchair users. IF IF indeed anyone decided to take it upon themselves to make this powerchair fit the safety requirements I could see where unhooked wires or perhaps even cut wires could also have locked up the chair (safety feature for some more "luxery" chairs) or locked wheels up by partially getting hooked up around the wheels or a main feature.

Wires can also very easily damage during loading or offloading for instance by rubbing against the plane wall too hefty. So so many reasons ranging from stupidity, carelessness, lack of knowledge to simply dumb luck can result in these types of damages. Including on both part of airline and baggage handlers as on the part of the user and/or his mom.

 

[disney david]

Can only speak for myself, but it takes a LOT more to offend me. Seriously, I didn't even see this anything other than just a discussion, just like we could've been talking about cupcakes or muppets.

Pushing a powerchair can look difficult, esp. for those handlers that are not in shape. Quite a few I've found but it gives them a good work out.

Most brands I know (am less well-known with all the US options as compared to how indepth I am with our options) would make it dead impossible to push unless unlocking the chair into freewheel option. This option is specifically for pushing. Most are simply too heavy to push without being in this option but I do know of some types or brands that actively lock wheels when not in this position and trying to move them by pushing. Another option could be with the wiring. Official guidlines are that the chair shouldn't be able to switch on in flight. Many chairs have options that allow you to disable the power by one switch of a button. Not the "off" button on the joystick (this will still keep the powercircuit in motion and would have chair able to move by pushing "on" button on joystick), but another more difficult switch. One that can not switch on "accident", by bumping heavy baggage into it etc. This is a switch that does cuts the powercircuit. No moving possible period. If you know to have this option, easiest way to fly. Obviously.

But, most airline and ground handling crew have no clue about these aids. Thus not knowing about these options and thus thinking the only safe way is to take off the wiring to the battery or take battery out. This is a dangerous thinking, it has caused all kinds of trouble since they sometimes tend to take upon themselves to "take care of safety". Most of the times that would result in cutting wires or removeing batteries in an unsafe way. I've had it happen more than once where I've had to explain and re-explain. Big reason why I now have a picture guideline on my chair to show them how this one "powercircuit interrupted button" takes care of thing and how this can be checked and block of my battery so they can not get to it. But, that is another point where things have gone wrong with multiple powerchair users. IF IF indeed anyone decided to take it upon themselves to make this powerchair fit the safety requirements I could see where unhooked wires or perhaps even cut wires could also have locked up the chair (safety feature for some more "luxery" chairs) or locked wheels up by partially getting hooked up around the wheels or a main feature.

Wires can also very easily damage during loading or offloading for instance by rubbing against the plane wall too hefty. So so many reasons ranging from stupidity, carelessness, lack of knowledge to simply dumb luck can result in these types of damages. Including on both part of airline and baggage handlers as on the part of the user and/or his mom.

The wires was cut in half not pulled out even after they tried to split them and twist together it wouldn't work well he looked in shape but he was on his toes pushing it I am sure if it was in manual mode of free wheel it would of been easier for him. Your right I am sure the safety feature of the chair kicked in and locked the wheels because the motor wouldn't even do anything when they moved the joy stick. Just the display would have a yellow light well that what the mother said she saw yellow on the display and nothing worked. Not sure but they looked clean cut almost like the crew in I think it came from Nassau tried to take it apart but then found the wires and either cut them or put it in a way they they would split during flight.

 

[SueM in MN]

From what you are describing, there are 3 issues that were responsible for damage of the chair:
1) The mom or user of the chair did not understand how to prepare it for travel. She also did not understand their rights - the airline is liable. If she actually refused to let them remove her son from the plane until they agreed to pay for it, she would have been refusing to move and get in trouble with the law.

2) The baggage handlers in the city he left from or the city he landed at did not know how to handle it. They probably had no easy way to contact the mother or her son to ask.

3) The firemen did not know how to handle the chair. They may have actually done more damage than the airline by cutting wires back and trying to put things back together when they did not understand how they worked.

There is a lot that doesn't make sense here, so I'm going to explain a little bit how the average power wheelchairs work first in very general terms.
That may help you understand what you saw more.

Wheels: There are 4 or more wheels on a power wheelchair. My DD's power chair has 6 wheels. The 2 front wheels and 2 back wheels are casters that turn freely in all directions - like casters on an office chair.
Those casters do not have any power or any brakes.
Two bigger wheels are drive wheels. Each drive wheel has its own motor. These motors make the wheels turn and make the chair go.

Controller: A computer determines how much power goes to each wheel, which determines how fast the chair goes and what direction it goes.
A joystick or other input device is used to control the computer. The controller has a little status window that gives information about the chair. It also gives warnings if something is wrong. That would be the yellow light.
Some people have head or other types on controls. These might have wires that look like they are sticking out loose, but are normal.
Most of the wires have quick connects, so the controller wires can be snapped apart to remove the controller.

batteries: as was mentioned, someone might have tried to disconnect the batteries. I don't think this is the case though, because you said the mom said there was a yellow light. Batteries disconnected = no power = no light.
Most chairs have a battery gauge on the controller, yellow light may mean the battery is low on power.

Pushing a power wheelchair: As goofieslonglostsis mentioned, people with power wheelchairs generally DONT want it driven by someone who doesn't know how to drive it. So, in most cases, we will disable it so it HAS to be pushed.

Freewheel or manual are the same things.
All power wheelchairs (and ECVs) have a way to disengage the motors from the wheels so the chair can be pushed. It works the same way as putting a car into neutral. If a car is in neutral, it can be pushed. If it is in park, it can't.
There is a lever to disengage the motors from the wheels. Each drive wheel has its own motor, so you have to disengage BOTH to push the chair.
Someone who is not familiar with the chair may not be able to find the lever easily. Most of the levers are well marked though. My daughter's has one position that is marked DRIVE and the other position is marked PUSH.
That is the most common way to mark them, although some may say FREEWHEEL instead of PUSH.
When the lever is moved fully to the pushing position on both wheels, the chair can be pushed.
BOTH levers (one for each wheel) have to be engaged into the same position to move. If both are engaged in the DRIVE positin, it can be driven.
If both are in the PUSH position, it can be pushed.
It isn't easy to push - an empty power wheelchair weighs 280-300 pounds or more. So what you saw and thought was them pushing against locked wheels was likely just pushing a heavy chair, especially if the son was in it or they were pushing up hill - like up the ramp from the plane. It is REALLY a pain to push a power wheelchair, especially on a ramp.

If one is in PUSH and one is in DRIVE, the chair can't be pushed or driven. The controller will give a warning - like an orange/yellow light. In my DD's chair, it flashes.

If both are in PUSH or DRIVE, but are not fully engaged, it can't be pushed or driven and the controller will give a warning. The joystick can be moved, but won't do anything because the motors in the wheels are not in position to move the chair.

That can happen and people think the chair is broken. I have been called many times over the years to get DD because her chair is broken. When I came, I could 'fix' it easily because either one of the the levers was not totally engaged or one was in PUSH and one was in DRIVE.

So, the take home messages are:
1) know your chair and know how to prepare it for flight to minimize possibility of damage.

2) know your rights. If the airline damages it, they are required to fix it. Know who to contact - all airlines have someone available to deal with disability issues. That person should have been called in this case.

3) Don't let anyone who doesn't know what they are doing try to repair a power wheelchair - they are likly to do more harm.

 

[disney david]

From what you are describing, there are 3 issues that were responsible for damage of the chair:
1) The mom or user of the chair did not understand how to prepare it for travel. She also did not understand their rights - the airline is liable. If she actually refused to let them remove her son from the plane until they agreed to pay for it, she would have been refusing to move and get in trouble with the law.

2) The baggage handlers in the city he left from or the city he landed at did not know how to handle it. They probably had no easy way to contact the mother or her son to ask.

3) The firemen did not know how to handle the chair. They may have actually done more damage than the airline by cutting wires back and trying to put things back together when they did not understand how they worked.

There is a lot that doesn't make sense here, so I'm going to explain a little bit how the average power wheelchairs work first in very general terms.
That may help you understand what you saw more.

Wheels: There are 4 or more wheels on a power wheelchair. My DD's power chair has 6 wheels. The 2 front wheels and 2 back wheels are casters that turn freely in all directions - like casters on an office chair.
Those casters do not have any power or any brakes.
Two bigger wheels are drive wheels. Each drive wheel has its own motor. These motors make the wheels turn and make the chair go.

Controller: A computer determines how much power goes to each wheel, which determines how fast the chair goes and what direction it goes.
A joystick or other input device is used to control the computer. The controller has a little status window that gives information about the chair. It also gives warnings if something is wrong. That would be the yellow light.
Some people have head or other types on controls. These might have wires that look like they are sticking out loose, but are normal.
Most of the wires have quick connects, so the controller wires can be snapped apart to remove the controller.

batteries: as was mentioned, someone might have tried to disconnect the batteries. I don't think this is the case though, because you said the mom said there was a yellow light. Batteries disconnected = no power = no light.
Most chairs have a battery gauge on the controller, yellow light may mean the battery is low on power.

Pushing a power wheelchair: As goofieslonglostsis mentioned, people with power wheelchairs generally DONT want it driven by someone who doesn't know how to drive it. So, in most cases, we will disable it so it HAS to be pushed.

Freewheel or manual are the same things.
All power wheelchairs (and ECVs) have a way to disengage the motors from the wheels so the chair can be pushed. It works the same way as putting a car into neutral. If a car is in neutral, it can be pushed. If it is in park, it can't.
There is a lever to disengage the motors from the wheels. Each drive wheel has its own motor, so you have to disengage BOTH to push the chair.
Someone who is not familiar with the chair may not be able to find the lever easily. Most of the levers are well marked though. My daughter's has one position that is marked DRIVE and the other position is marked PUSH.
That is the most common way to mark them, although some may say FREEWHEEL instead of PUSH.
When the lever is moved fully to the pushing position on both wheels, the chair can be pushed.
BOTH levers (one for each wheel) have to be engaged into the same position to move. If both are engaged in the DRIVE positin, it can be driven.
If both are in the PUSH position, it can be pushed.
It isn't easy to push - an empty power wheelchair weighs 280-300 pounds or more. So what you saw and thought was them pushing against locked wheels was likely just pushing a heavy chair, especially if the son was in it or they were pushing up hill - like up the ramp from the plane. It is REALLY a pain to push a power wheelchair, especially on a ramp.

If one is in PUSH and one is in DRIVE, the chair can't be pushed or driven. The controller will give a warning - like an orange/yellow light. In my DD's chair, it flashes.

If both are in PUSH or DRIVE, but are not fully engaged, it can't be pushed or driven and the controller will give a warning. The joystick can be moved, but won't do anything because the motors in the wheels are not in position to move the chair.

That can happen and people think the chair is broken. I have been called many times over the years to get DD because her chair is broken. When I came, I could 'fix' it easily because either one of the the levers was not totally engaged or one was in PUSH and one was in DRIVE.

So, the take home messages are:
1) know your chair and know how to prepare it for flight to minimize possibility of damage.

2) know your rights. If the airline damages it, they are required to fix it. Know who to contact - all airlines have someone available to deal with disability issues. That person should have been called in this case.

3) Don't let anyone who doesn't know what they are doing try to repair a power wheelchair - they are likly to do more harm.

The fire men didn't cut the wires they was broken by jet blue and the mother ask them to try to splice the wires. They origainal just touched them and told the mother it didn't work she asked them to try and peel the wire back and twist the wire. The manager didn't seem to happy to help I am sure she gave them he'll but she was nice to the firemen I guess she realized it was not their fault and she saw they was they was the new trying to help. The fire department showed great customer service it sad because jet blue should of done better.

 

[50surgeries2012]

My best friend travels with her power chair on an airplane a lot as it's more comfortable for her to use than her manual wheelchair, and at the moment. It is so beat up from the airline crew damaging it that it tends to quit working on her from time to time. It's one of those huge Permobil front-wheel drive power wheelchairs.

I can understand how you feel. Traveling with a power chair isn't easy especially since they're more vulnerable to being damaged than a manual wheelchair would.

 

[SueM in MN]

Not exonerating jetBlue in any way, and this is just a rhetorical question (understanding that the OP wouldn't have any way of knowing the answer) - if, according to the mother, it's bad for the power chair to be pushed in manual mode why was its key in her checked luggage?

Manual mode is FOR pushing. That is the only purpose for it.
Power wheelchair need to be pushed periodically - if the battery wears out (needs recharging) or there is a problem with the battery.