Are Disney Adults Happiest Debtors on Earth?

[liamthompson]

And let’s quickly clear up one thing: Theme parks are for everyone. Children, yes, but families, grown-ups, single people, divorced people, cheerful people, depressed people, dog people, cat people, Dodgers fans, Padres fans, whomever. Theme parks take all kinds.

I think the writer is on to something but I believe this is the fundamental disagreement. We DON'T believe that theme parks are for everyone. In reflection of this thread, some people believe that you shouldn't go to a theme park if you have debt. Some people believe that you shouldn't go to a theme park because there are other activities that offer better value. We each have our own idea of who deserves to go to disney or who is allowed to go to disney. We're each imposing our own value system so no one is right or wrong and we argue ceaselessly about it

If we expand out further, we each have our own bar for who should get married, who should have children, who should vote, who deserves assistance, etc.

I believe it’s steeped in privilege, a similar sort of resentment shown to those who are spending $1,500 to dine at Noma LA.

And like all things, this bar is rooted in money or the have vs have not of resources.

 

[DCLMP]

And let’s quickly clear up one thing: Theme parks are for everyone. Children, yes, but families, grown-ups, single people, divorced people, cheerful people, depressed people, dog people, cat people, Dodgers fans, Padres fans, whomever. Theme parks take all kinds. The Disneyland creation myth is that Walt Disney spent his time at Griffith Park sitting on a bench while his young daughters rode a merry-go-round and dreamed of a place where all could participate in the fun.

I agree with this.
My definition of a Disney adult are the one's I see on DCL that dress up in Disney costumes and Mickey ears. Also the one's that wait in line to have their picture taken with adults in a costume. Then they cry, get emotional and act like the person dressed up in costume is real. Every cruise I've been on has a percentage of these adults. It's comparable to seeing an adult sitting on Santa's lap and thinking the north pole and reindeers are real.

These people are why people make fun of Disney adults. I'm an adult and I like Disney cruise line, but I don't go on a Disney cruises and act like a child.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

I think the writer is on to something but I believe this is the fundamental disagreement. We DON'T believe that theme parks are for everyone. In reflection of this thread, some people believe that you shouldn't go to a theme park if you have debt. Some people believe that you shouldn't go to a theme park because there are other activities that offer better value. We each have our own idea of who deserves to go to disney or who is allowed to go to disney. We're each imposing our own value system so no one is right or wrong and we argue ceaselessly about it

If we expand out further, we each have our own bar for who should get married, who should have children, who should vote, who deserves assistance, etc.



And like all things, this bar is rooted in money or the have vs have not of resources.

But we don’t ’all have our own idea of who deserves’. I don’t believe in ‘deserve’. I believe that all capable adults should have the freedom to make their own choices. (Some have disabilities or illnesses that leave them not capable) I am not in a position to judge ‘deserving’, nor would I want to be.

 

[liamthompson]

But we don’t ’all have our own idea of who deserves’. I don’t believe in ‘deserve’. I believe that all capable adults should have the freedom to make their own choices. (Some have disabilities or illnesses that leave them not capable) I am not in a position to judge ‘deserving’, nor would I want to be.

Respectfully, do you find the word "deserves" to be troublesome? If so, I mean that we all have an idea of who should and should not visit disney and I don't mean it in the sense that someone is "owed" or "earned" a disney trip.

For example, I imagine no one on this board thinks a convicted child molester should visit disney because we are judging them to be a potential danger to other guests. This is a very extreme example, of course, but I'm using it to demonstrate that there are people that we generally agree should refrain from visiting. (I'm using "we" loosely because I'm sure there is someone who would argue the opposite.)

 

[Minnie1222]

The reality is 45% of families go into debt for Disney vacations.

I believe the article is written in such a way to deliberately mislead the readers.

The title of the article is indeed:


But the following paragraph and the actual study show a different picture.


I think the actual percentage is very small since the "45% of parents" in this context belongs to the subset of Parents with Children under age 18, which is within the Parents category, which is within the 24% of debtors.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Respectfully, do you find the word "deserves" to be troublesome? If so, I mean that we all have an idea of who should and should not visit disney and I don't mean it in the sense that someone is "owed" or "earned" a disney trip.

For example, I imagine no one on this board thinks a convicted child molester should visit disney because we are judging them to be a potential danger to other guests. This is a very extreme example, of course, but I'm using it to demonstrate that there are people that we generally agree should refrain from visiting. (I'm using "we" loosely because I'm sure there is someone who would argue the

People who have had their freedom to be around children removed because of penalties imposed by the criminal justice system? Really, you get that group out of this discussion?

 

[liamthompson]

People who have had their freedom to be around children removed because of penalties imposed by the criminal justice system? Really, you get that group out of this discussion?

I chose a very extreme example so that we would likely find common ground.

 

[DCLMP]

I believe the article is written in such a way to deliberately mislead the readers.

The title of the article is indeed:
View attachment 1071834

But the following paragraph and the actual study show a different picture.
View attachment 1071835

I think the actual percentage is very small since the "45% of parents" in this context belongs to the subset of Parents with Children under age 18, which is within the Parents category, which is within the 24% of debtors.

The average American has 7k in CC debt. There is 1.7 trillion in auto loan debt and about 2 trillion in student loans in this country. I would say it's safe to say that a good percentage of people put vacations on a credit card. I don't even know why this is a debate.

 

[barkley]

it would be interesting to see accurate numbers on how many use credit cards for their vacations but then break it down to how many have to carry that balance to repay vs. those that pay it before it accrues any interest. I would think that even those of us who can/prefer to pay as we go for vacations see the value in using a credit card for vacations. aside from some travel protections/benefits our household aquires using credit cards vs. cash for vacation expenses even the low/no fee credit cards our household uses that we pay off immediately result in an average of 3-5% cash back rewards so a $10k Disney trip for the family paid for with our credit vs our debit card results in a net $300-$500 back into the savings account.

 

[crisi]

it would be interesting to see accurate numbers on how many use credit cards for their vacations but then break it down to how many have to carry that balance to repay vs. those that pay it before it accrues any interest. I would think that even those of us who can/prefer to pay as we go for vacations see the value in using a credit card for vacations. aside from some travel protections/benefits our household aquires using credit cards vs. cash for vacation expenses even the low/no fee credit cards our household uses that we pay off immediately result in an average of 3-5% cash back rewards so a $10k Disney trip for the family paid for with our credit vs our debit card results in a net $300-$500 back into the savings account.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/29/some-american-plan-to-take-on-debt-for-summer-travel.html

https://www.debt.com/research/summer-travel-survey/

more scholarly (but talks about pent up Covid demand): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14673584241300599

There is more on JSTOR but its behind a paywall. This was five minutes of research. Upshot. Yes, there are lots of people who pay off their credit cards. And there are lots of people who carry balances from month to month and vacation using credit cards. Just like we see here.

The first is my approach and I think paying interest to anyone (with the exception of a mortgage) is simply making you more broke later rather than using interest (or asset value increases in the market or real property) to your advantage to build wealth, but its a personal choice. I don't know many people my age who are looking at retirement and saying "no problem - even if they cut social security I'll retain my standard of living" - but the people I do know in that situation didn't pay interest on credit cards and didn't start out with student loans.

 

[DCLMP]

it would be interesting to see accurate numbers on how many use credit cards for their vacations but then break it down to how many have to carry that balance to repay vs. those that pay it before it accrues any interest. I would think that even those of us who can/prefer to pay as we go for vacations see the value in using a credit card for vacations. aside from some travel protections/benefits our household aquires using credit cards vs. cash for vacation expenses even the low/no fee credit cards our household uses that we pay off immediately result in an average of 3-5% cash back rewards so a $10k Disney trip for the family paid for with our credit vs our debit card results in a net $300-$500 back into the savings account.

Personal debt is at all time high in this country wether it's due to the cost of living and people just trying to get by, or people with bad financial habits it's hard to know. It's probably a combination of both. I tend to think it's more of the former because inflation is really hurting the middle class. Wealthy people use credit cards and pay them off every month and that has not changed.

 

[Minnie1222]

I would say it's safe to say that a good percentage of people put vacations on a credit card. I don't even know why this is a debate.

I don't doubt that people take on debt to travel. I just want to discuss the "journalism" that fueled this thread.

In my opinion, the columnists involved are either too dim to realize that the study they used doesn't actually support their argument, or they assume that we, the readers, are so dense that we cannot recognize when data is misrepresented to fit a narrative.

Unfortunately, it's likely the latter from their perspective. This approach is a blatant disrespect for the audience and for data integrity.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't doubt that people take on debt to travel. I just want to discuss the "journalism" that fueled this thread.

In my opinion, the columnists involved are either too dim to realize that the study they used doesn't actually support their argument, or they assume that we, the readers, are so dense that we cannot recognize when data is misrepresented to fit a narrative.

Unfortunately, it's likely the latter from their perspective. This approach is a blatant disrespect for the audience and for data integrity.

I think you are taking the article way too personally. You might want to ask yourself why.

 

[Minnie1222]

I think you are taking the article way too personally. You might want to ask yourself why.

Data integrity is the foundation of truth. Without it, misinformation will keep spreading.

 

[DCLMP]

I don't doubt that people take on debt to travel. I just want to discuss the "journalism" that fueled this thread.

In my opinion, the columnists involved are either too dim to realize that the study they used doesn't actually support their argument, or they assume that we, the readers, are so dense that we cannot recognize when data is misrepresented to fit a narrative.

Unfortunately, it's likely the latter from their perspective. This approach is a blatant disrespect for the audience and for data integrity.

You might want to stop reading anything that's written on main street news sites then. There is nothing to be learned or gained from it.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Data integrity is the foundation of truth. Without it, misinformation will keep spreading.

Or as we said in the olden days, there are statistics and there are ‘damn’ statistics. The context in which you surround numbers can greatly effect your meaning.

 

[_19disnA]

^^ I agree, it reads more like an opinion piece you used to find in the editorial section. Author started out with a premise they had and then chose data that supported their view. Seems they cherry picked the data from someone else's survey that supported their opinion. Clearly the headline was worded in such a way as to attract attention.

 

[Nayan]

I agree with this.
My definition of a Disney adult are the one's I see on DCL that dress up in Disney costumes and Mickey ears. Also the one's that wait in line to have their picture taken with adults in a costume. Then they cry, get emotional and act like the person dressed up in costume is real. Every cruise I've been on has a percentage of these adults. It's comparable to seeing an adult sitting on Santa's lap and thinking the north pole and reindeers are real.

These people are why people make fun of Disney adults. I'm an adult and I like Disney cruise line, but I don't go on a Disney cruises and act like a child.

I like Disney. I go to DS a couple times a year and may go to a park once or twice a year. I have a Figment (my fave, bought it when Epcot first opened) and Ratatouille sits in my kitchen window. That's all I have as far as merch goes. I don't wear shirts/hats/ears/etc. when I go there. I don't get weepy when I see a character or cry when it's time to leave (have seen this from grown adults). I don't subscribe to Disney+ nor do I watch every movie/show they put out.

In other words, I don't obsess over it or make it my entire personality, which is what I think of when someone mentions Disney Adults.

 

[liamthompson]

Data integrity is the foundation of truth. Without it, misinformation will keep spreading.

I get your frustration, I want good data, I want us (society) to make good decisions based on good data...but along the lines of the above comment about cherry picking data, I think you could produce 2 articles with opposing viewpoints using the same data to bolster each opinion. And I think that's a reflection of how we interpret data through our own lens, our own value system.

This thread has gone on for 7 pages and I don't think anyone's mind has been changed from all this discussion. It's really hard to change someone's value system. So why do we keep talking about this article? For me, I was recently told on another forum that my family should not be allowed to visit disney and that really stung. I was receiving hate mail for days although I wasn't engaging with any of the comments. Perhaps you feel the same way? Do you feel this opinion piece is saying you shouldn't be visiting disney and you're trying to explain why you should?

I don't think this thread or these kinds of articles are purposeless - why is it trendy to hate on people going to disney? Why do we think some people should go to disney and some should not? I think these questions are interesting.

 

[liamthompson]

Or as we said in the olden days, there are statistics and there are ‘damn’ statistics. The context in which you surround numbers can greatly effect your meaning.

The version I heard in school was "statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital"!