Am I Being too Harsh?

[vhoffman]

My dd is 8 years old and in the third grade. She has always been a good student and always makes the A B honor roll. Yesterday she brought home a note from the school, the first note she has ever received. Actually, it wasn't a note, it was form about problems in school. Seems she has failed her last three spelling tests. She always got 100%, or at least 90% on spelling. Just this semester, since the start of school after Christmas, I noticed she wasn't bringing home her spelling words. I always worked with her on the words. Usually I made flash cards, which seem to help a lot. There's 20 words per test, so that's a lot of stuff to memorize. Breaking it up into single units, rather than a list, seemed to help. I also had her write each word 5x day, then spell each word orally. Of course, I helped her with comprehension if she didn't understand a word. Sometimes, just for fun, we'd look up some words in a dictionary, just to get used to using one. All this took no more than 10-15 minutes per day, I didn't beat it to death. Apparently it worked, she always got high grades on spelling tests.

Well, like I said, she stopped bringing home her spelling word list this Jan. I asked her about it, but she said she did all her spelling work at school. Also, she stopped bringing home her spelling tests. When asked, she just said she "did fine". Well, apparently not! I admit, I was shook up just receiving the form, requesting a conference. I realize I'm overreacting, but I feel like I'm somehow on the defensive for her poor performance. I expressed my displeasure with her this morning (I didn't see the letter until last night). Also, I told her she couldn't have her Valentine's gift--a huge, pink catepillar. We gave her the catepillar and a box of candy last night. She can keep the candy, but not the toy. Well, she was so happy at the Valentine's party at school today (I went over for part of the party), but appeared so deflated when she came home and looked for the catepillar (I haven't taken it back, but will do so tonight). I really feel sorry for her, I don't mean to ruin a holiday over a school issue. However, I feel I must do something to get her attention. She can't just slough off while in school. She's developing habits now that will stay with her all her life. I'm not doing her a favor by letting her goof off. We also told her that we expect at least 90% on each spelling test from now on, and if she doesn't achieve that, or doesn't bring the spelling test home, she's grounded for that weekend. Well, am I too harsh? Really, I'm feeling terrible about the whole thing and would like to reconsider and give her back the toy, however, that would make me look like I don't mean what I say. If I'm feeling bad, imagine how she feels! But I have to do something. My parents never allowed goofing off at school. My father used to say "A's are expected. B's are accepted." And I have no idea what would have happened if a note was sent home from school!

 

[ErinC]

No, you are not being too harsh. Your child lied to you, and she is obviously old enough to know the difference between the truth and a lie. If you don't take something away, she will think there is no consequences for her behavior. You choose the catepillar, so stick with it. I too have regretted some of the "things" I said I would take away, but you have to stick to your guns.(It's really hard I know). Best wishes, I hope it works out. Just think, if this makes it clear to her that her actions were not acceptable by returning the catepillar, than hopefully you won't have to cross a "bigger" bridge later on.

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

No to sound harsh but how why didn't you make sure she brought home her Spelling list? You should be quizzing her, 3rd grade is too young to expect a student to study on their own. As for taking away the toy, I feel it was also your responsibility as a parent to be on top of your DD's schoolwork and grades. I would be suspicious if my 2nd grader suddenly did all his Spelling work in school. I think you should move on from here and let your DD know if she feels behind in a subject to come to you for help. Give her the toy because as a parent you share some of the blame too.

 

[nuzmom]

I think you should be concerned that your daughter lied to you, but taking away the gift doesn't seem like the best solution. IMHO, it was given to her as a gift and not as a condition of her doing well on her spelling test. It was a gift for valentine's day, a gift to show her that you love her. That has not changed and you could give it back to her and explain that thinking.

However, I also agree that there needs to be a consequence for her action (or lack there of). You could ground her for the week or take away TV time or some other "special" time for her.

You also need to discuss WHY she didn't bring home her spelling words. I think I would be very concerned about that.

Lastly, you need to be clear with her as to the consequence for her if this would happen again. And, yes, grades are important, but be cautious to not put too much pressure on her. Isn't the real issue for her to give it her very best? It sounds like that will result in 90%s and higher, but what if she has an "off" week? Should you really ground her for the weekend? Don't let her get too worried that she might fail and disappoint you.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[DisneyMomOfThree]

I would not go back on what you have said. However, talk to her. Maybe she is having problems at school with friends or something else may be bothering her. I would wonder why all of a sudden her grades dropped off and she is goofing off. Check it out. Good luck

 

[rt2dz]

Just remember, you asked for opinions.

I don't beleive in punishing a child for bad grades. I believe in discipline. The root word of discipline is disciple which means "to teach". When you have unwanted behavior you want to find a way to change it to desired behavior. How does punishing a child help them get better grades? I'm not trying to start an argument, I really just don't understand. It's not my philosophy.

What I do with bad grades, is figure out why there is a bad grade. Did she feel too pushed in the way you helped her? Was it a little overboard on the studying? Does she need help, but not quite that much? Is she being picked on for being a nerd and is she trying to dumb down to fit in?

Also, children shouldn't be under so much pressure to be perfect or get great grades. Don't forget, C's are supposed to be for average student. Nobody is perfect in life and no one is 90% or better in all of life either. I think you are setting up a child for unrealistic expectations and failure in the long run by doing this. We were always told, A's aren't expected, but doing your best is. I failed Spanish one semester in high school. My parents asked me if that was my best--it was. I studied my butt off, I used the school's tutoring program, I just never could get it. I never did badly in anything else except spelling ( ) in elementry school. FYI--I graduated high school with a 3.6 and college with a 3.8. Go figure. Remember, she is still very, very little.

I also believe in letting your kids earn their own grades, good or bad. My parents were always there if any of us needed help, but they didn't check our work. No one was going to check it for us as adults, so we had better learn how to do it now. I also think when we got a bad grade, it was a sign that something needed to be learned and we always got help in that area. Something that wouldn't have happened if our parents were checking our work and fixing our mistakes for us. Of course, that is neither here nor there.

I definetly agree that follow through on parenting is exteremly important. I also believe in using your child's currency. But taking away a brand new gift, just seems extereme to me. What about telling her, it's temporarily gone (two days or 'till when she brings home the current spelling words)? That way you follow through without over reacting.

 

[java]

I also have a daughter in third grade. There are 2 spelling lists in her class- one more difficult than the other. She has been getting the more difficult list since the second week. She gets nightly homework and has an agenda that I need to sign every night- they have this through 8th grade in our district. (with the older children needing it signed once a week - so you can stay on top of what is missing) Some teachers even post grades nightly online for us to view. When your dd didn't bring home the test that was the red flag. So was she out of line- yes- did you over-react(did I spell that correctly?) no. She lied to you. You made a punishment and you need to stick with it. My dd snuck her Gameboy DS to school after being told not to(and I found it in her bag...) so she lost that DS for 2 weeks. That was what I thought was the fitting punishment. If you thought that taking away the caterpillar will get your point across then did what you had to do. Now you know that she should bring home a list every week. She still needs more review than she thinks she does. Now I would also see if anything else is going on in class*like was someone teasing her for her good grades- or is there someone she is trying to befriend that does poorly in spelling? I also would have made her rewrite the words that she has gotten wrong on her tests. Good luck at your meeting and don't worry- there is always spell check.

 

[LoveWDW]

My parents stressed grades and I got good grades- but I was intensely hyper about it. I agonized and drove myself so that I would please my parents.

So we decided to go the opposite route with our children and praised for good grades and offered suggestions when the grades were bad, but we didn't stress the importance of grades. I didn't want them to become tense and frantic about grades. The boys were both terrible students even though according to standardized tests they should have easily been able to get all A's. It took the oldest being kicked out of college before it dawned on him and then his brother that grades were important.

 

[zookeeper]

You might want to think about your motives for being so severe with your daughter. Is it that you are embarassed that the teacher requested a conference? Had you figured it out on your own would you be as upset? Your daughter's at an age where you should be letting her become more independent with getting her work done. Is she going to make mistakes and test boundaries ??...Of course. She wouldn't be human otherwise. Making mistakes is how we learn and grow. You won't be helping your daughter in the long-run if you don't allow her the room to make mistakes and to become accountable for her own work. Setting a benchmark of 90% for spelling tests is a little severe IMO. If she tries her best and only achieves 85% are you then sending her the message that her best isn't good enough? She's only in grade 3. While you are trying to teach her and help her develop good work habits I'm pretty sure she won't be turned down by the college of her choice because in Gr. 3 her average in spelling was 81%.

 

[vhoffman]

Well, I decided (and told dd) that she could earn the catepillar back if she got a 90% or better on this week's spelling test. Yes, I know, the gift was given to her for Valentine's Day, not as a rewad for good grades. However, I have to do something to get my point across. Actually, now I feel I should have found another consequence--such as no TV, no playing with friends after school, whatever....something not tied to a holiday. And, like another poster pointed out, the gift had already been given. It shouldn't be taken away for bad behavior, it was her's. However, taking it away temporarily, say, until she gets with it and starts getting better spelling grades, seems like a fair solution.

Its not that I'm trying to make her a perfect speller (there is Spellcheck!), but I want her to learn responsibility with her schoolwork. In talking to her today, I told her that the majority of the time when I didn't do well in school, it was due to disorganization, not a lack of ability. I just don't want her to make the same mistakes I did. I always managed to make good grades, but remember many "all nighters" that could have been avoided with better study habits. Still, I feel bad about ruining Valentine's Day.

 

[Hannathy]

Yes I think you are being way too harsh. I agree it was a gift and I think it is mean to take it back she is only 8. I also agree that you took the easy way out in accepting that she did not have spelling lists any more and not seeing her grade. Did you call the teacher and ask or send a note about why they weren't coming home? If you didn't you are as guilty as her, Which gift are you giving back ? Would I be angry at my child yes, and they would know it. I also don't like a set grade requirement every week what if she misses 3 one week but has had perfects up till then? We all have bad days. She will be petrified to come home and tell you. I think once a gift is given it is given if you feel you must take it away just put it away until the next spelling test.
I also feel parents need to say I was wrong, or I was mistaken maybe you could say I was very upset and disappointed and said I was taking the toy back, now that I have calmed down lets figure out how we can work something out so you can keep it.

 

[Merriwind]

I agree with the PP who said that the catepillar has nothing to do with spelling. It was a Valentine's Day gift, given without strings attached. Why not hold on to it for a while, maybe until her effort in spelling improves? I don't see where taking it away is teaching her anything productive.

My dd is in second grade. Her spelling words come home each week as homework and actually make up the bulk of each week's homework. Children who don't do their homework lose a priviledge in school--recess or eating outside in the picnic area on Friday. I think that before giving a punishment you need to outline your expectations and explain what the consequences of not meeting those will be. Again, I like taking away priviledges--tv, recess, etc--not things.

I don't know if this is the case with your dd, since her not bringing home the work makes it hard to know, but spelling may be at a point that is challenging for her. My dd8 is very bright, in the gifted class, way above grade level in reading and math, but struggles with spelling. Usually, with a lot of work, she does fine on her tests, but the last few weeks have been letter and sound combinations that she just can't get. We've had Bs and even Cs. My DD stresses terribly at anything that is not 100%. Believe me, that is a road you don't want to go down.

As long as your dd is applying herself, be happy and proud of her efforts. Maybe difficulty is keeping her from bringing the work home. Talk to her. I really think that this can be worked out pretty easily. See if you can find out why her behavior changed. Tell her that you expect her to bring her spelling words home each week and work on the XX minutes per day. Communication is the key.

Good luck!

 

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I think you are being reasonable. I have a son who began with small lies at 2nd grade and now thinks he is perfecting an artform. I wish I had been harder on him then because I have to be really firm now and it is not fun to take away boy scout trips and time with friends.
As far as this being a gift and not tied to grades, that might be true but I take away other stuff as needed. Nintendo DS for 2 weeks for not cleaning the bedroom, game system from other son for bad grades, new un-opened toy withheld until the toys were put away. Others find this mean, I find this negotiation. As in: you want something and I want something, we can both be happy or both not be happt but you will not have unlimited fun while I do everything.
Good luck with your daughter! She sounds like she knows she made the wrong choice, she will learn from it. And remember, don't feel like you caused this, children who lie are not usually doing so because of bad parenting, they are testing their boundaries.

 

[HaleyB]

You will catch more bees with honey. I have always found that my kids respond better to positive incentives than to taking away. I still do have to sometimes, but I do find they focus a lot more on the punishment than why they got in trouble. On the other hand, when I set a goal and a reward, they focus on how to earn it. So I think you did the right thing.

Some people say once you have said something, or given out a punishment, you should never go back on it. I think that is plain foolishness. What if we held ourselves to that in every aspect of our lives. Have you never eturned anything? Never not made it to a party you planned to attend? Parents are people too and showing our kids that we can learn and grow and change our minds is fine. Don't give in to tears or tantrums, but an honest change of heart, I think, is fine.

Has she told you why she didn't want to do her spelling yet? That is an important question. Talk to the teacher about what she is seeing. Any social changes in the room?

Another thing, I also have a 2nd grader who is rather bright. She really hates to do anything she thinks is busy work. So we pretest her on Monday for that weeks words and only write out the ones she misses. Changing up what she has to do helps too.

One fun way to do spelling words is a pyramid. Like this:

f
fr
fri
frie
frien
friend
friends

Another is to make a word search or crossword puzzle.

 

[Mom to Jordan]

I think you really love your daughter and was hurt that she did not want your help and embarrased that you got a note from school. I would not have taken the toy, not because it was too harsh but because valentines gifts are because I love you gifts and should not be linked to behavior. Sounds like your daughter is trying to test the waters of independence. She decided that she could handle her spelling on her own and she learned a hard lesson. I am not even sure I would call it lying to you. She did what she thought she need to do for spelling. Children have to learn how to learn on their own. They have to learn study skills and learn that sometimes they still need help. The rule in our house is that if you study and I know that you studied and you asked for help if you need it, we accept whatever grade you make. However, if you have not shown us that your have studied we assume that you know it all and we expect an 100. If that does not happen you are punished. She is not to young to learn that she controls her own grades. Lesson learned is more important that the few bad grades. I would give her back the gift but lay down the rules for the future, and stickk with them. There are not perfect parents and few that have not had to rethink a punishment.

Jordan's mom

 

[cstraub]

My dd is 8 years old and in the third grade. She has always been a good student and always makes the A B honor roll. Yesterday she brought home a note from the school, the first note she has ever received. Actually, it wasn't a note, it was form about problems in school. Seems she has failed her last three spelling tests. She always got 100%, or at least 90% on spelling. Just this semester, since the start of school after Christmas, I noticed she wasn't bringing home her spelling words. I always worked with her on the words. Usually I made flash cards, which seem to help a lot. There's 20 words per test, so that's a lot of stuff to memorize. Breaking it up into single units, rather than a list, seemed to help. I also had her write each word 5x day, then spell each word orally. Of course, I helped her with comprehension if she didn't understand a word. Sometimes, just for fun, we'd look up some words in a dictionary, just to get used to using one. All this took no more than 10-15 minutes per day, I didn't beat it to death. Apparently it worked, she always got high grades on spelling tests.

Well, like I said, she stopped bringing home her spelling word list this Jan. I asked her about it, but she said she did all her spelling work at school. Also, she stopped bringing home her spelling tests. When asked, she just said she "did fine". Well, apparently not! I admit, I was shook up just receiving the form, requesting a conference. I realize I'm overreacting, but I feel like I'm somehow on the defensive for her poor performance. I expressed my displeasure with her this morning (I didn't see the letter until last night). Also, I told her she couldn't have her Valentine's gift--a huge, pink catepillar. We gave her the catepillar and a box of candy last night. She can keep the candy, but not the toy. Well, she was so happy at the Valentine's party at school today (I went over for part of the party), but appeared so deflated when she came home and looked for the catepillar (I haven't taken it back, but will do so tonight). I really feel sorry for her, I don't mean to ruin a holiday over a school issue. However, I feel I must do something to get her attention. She can't just slough off while in school. She's developing habits now that will stay with her all her life. I'm not doing her a favor by letting her goof off. We also told her that we expect at least 90% on each spelling test from now on, and if she doesn't achieve that, or doesn't bring the spelling test home, she's grounded for that weekend. Well, am I too harsh? Really, I'm feeling terrible about the whole thing and would like to reconsider and give her back the toy, however, that would make me look like I don't mean what I say. If I'm feeling bad, imagine how she feels! But I have to do something. My parents never allowed goofing off at school. My father used to say "A's are expected. B's are accepted." And I have no idea what would have happened if a note was sent home from school!

I can't even finish reading your post because it is breaking my heart. She will always remember you taking away that caterpillar. You should never give a gift and then take it back.

Just because your parents did certain things does not mean you should do those same things. Stop and ask yourself why you care so much about this.

I really could never do this to my child.

 

[cstraub]

No, you are not being too harsh. Your child lied to you, and she is obviously old enough to know the difference between the truth and a lie. If you don't take something away, she will think there is no consequences for her behavior. You choose the catepillar, so stick with it. I too have regretted some of the "things" I said I would take away, but you have to stick to your guns.(It's really hard I know). Best wishes, I hope it works out. Just think, if this makes it clear to her that her actions were not acceptable by returning the catepillar, than hopefully you won't have to cross a "bigger" bridge later on.

I would've lied too! Sounds like spelling boot camp!!

 

[rhiannonwales]

I dont think that youre being too harsh, Vhoffman - and though weve disagreed in the recent past, i totally back you up on this one.Actually, i wouldnt have let her keep the candy either.

I think that while it is ok to state whether you agree or disagree with vhoffmans' plan of action, but to berate her by saying "i dont blame her for lying - It sounds like spelling boot camp" is just plain uncalled for.

We are all so busy being "psychologists" to our kids that we forget that sometimes we have to be the bad guy.Bottom line? I love my 2 kids.But i'm NOT their friend, and they know it. They know they can come to me with problems and ill listen.I will tell them the truth - even when its unpleasant.I will back them up when they are right - and make them face the music when they are wrong.

I think its a little ridiculous to say that the incident will be with her for the rest of her life - im sure most of us have had things taken away by our parents and we are not all in therapy over it.

Fact is actions have consequences.So does lack of action.For whatever reason your DD thought she could coast on by spelling, without consequences.Bet she will think twice now.

As an aside vhoffman.... does my prior post with you about setting an example of taking the easy way out still seem ridiculous?
Sherrie

 

[LauraAnn630]

We just had a the same problem with 9 yr old DS. My DH didnt want to buy him valentines to pass out at the school party. I totally disagreed! But we did take away the psp.

The short slip in grades wouldnt bother me as much as the lieing.

 

[vhoffman]

Well, I decided to give her the catepillar back. Like other posters have said, it was a gift, not a reward for doing well in school. I told her she could keep the catepillar forever, even if she flunked all her spelling tests. It wasn't my intent to be mean, just to make it clear that she must do her school work, its not acceptable to just not bring it home and then lie to me about passing the tests.

To the poster who called it "spelling boot camp", well, perhaps you didn't fully understand my original post. I stated that we worked on spelling words a maximum of 10-15 minutes per day, we didn't "beat it to death". Hardly "boot camp". Learning spelling words is, essentially, memorization. The more repetition the better to memorize. But it was never "boot camp". She so happy with the new toy. She named it "Suzy". I guess I forgot how important stuffed animals are to children that age--they're like little friends. I told her I was sorry I took "Suzy" away, and she could keep her forever. She told me she was sorry she lied about the spelling words. She said she just kept forgetting them. It was the start of a new semester and a new procedure that she had trouble getting used to. I think its all worked out. Thanks for everyones' comments!