After University Advice (Law, Finance?)

[DisneylandDarling]

Hey all! I'm currently in university right now and am wondering what I should do after graduation. I've started seriously considering law, but am not sure if that is a wise choice. I will more than likely graduate with a 3.4-3.5 GPA (maybe a bit higher depending on how the reset of the semesters play out), taking a fairly difficult course of study my school offers. I know attorneys IRL aren't like on T.V., but feel a drawing to this profession. I don't want to go into major debt, although am not completely debt-averse. I'll figure out finances if this is something that would truly be a wise decision. I'm a great writer (don't judge me by my writings on here lol), have a strong work-ethic, and can see myself doing this.

On the other hand, I've sort of enjoyed finance and banking courses and could see myself doing something in that if I decide against law.

Honestly, any advice from my post-undergraduate DIS peeps would be greatly appreciated. If you're a lawyer/attorney, what undergrad GPA did you have/LSAT score did you have to get into law school? Do you enjoy what you do? Would you change your course if you could have a do-over?

P.S. go easy on me! The Community Board can be ruthless, but take pity on me! I'm a mere college student!

 

[amberpi]

I got into law and b school. Went to B school and could have done what I do with either degree, I'm a consultant in anti-money laundering. They have finance people and attorneys on those teams. I've worked for and had attorneys work for me, so either way it worked out as I love what I do. I went with the MBA because I was young when I got my undergrad by a couple of years and didn't know what I wanted to do exactly and thought B school would give me more choices. I'm very happy with the choice I made and have never regretted it. Good luck with either choice!!!

My gpa was 3.95 or something, double major honors. I was in the 90%s on GRE and LSAT, but I scored lower on the LSAT. I went to the big state school, nothing fancy and not a joke school either.

 

[DisneylandDarling]

I got into law and b school. Went to B school and could have done what I do with either degree, I'm a consultant in anti-money laundering. They have finance people and attorneys on those teams. I've worked for and had attorneys work for me, so either way it worked out as I love what I do. I went with the MBA because I was young when I got my undergrad by a couple of years and didn't know what I wanted to do exactly and thought B school would give me more choices. I'm very happy with the choice I made and have never regretted it. Good luck with either choice!!!

My gpa was 3.95 or something, double major honors. I was in the 90%s on GRE and LSAT, but I scored lower on the LSAT. I went to the big state school, nothing fancy and not a joke school either.

Thanks, I appreciate sharing your experience!

3.95! That's really great. I feel like my GPA would be higher, but I've had some pretty rough professors. As in 40% pass rate for the class type of professors (including those taking it for the second or third time ). Which stinks, but such as life right? While I don't have a low GPA, I hope it's high enough that it won't hold me back.

 

[amberpi]

You'll do great! Go for it! If I could have stayed in school forever, I would have, but I had to go be a grown up and make a living.

 

[sam_gordon]

Hey all! I'm currently in university right now and am wondering what I should do after graduation. I've started seriously considering law, but am not sure if that is a wise choice. I will more than likely graduate with a 3.4-3.5 GPA (maybe a bit higher depending on how the reset of the semesters play out), taking a fairly difficult course of study my school offers. I know attorneys IRL aren't like on T.V., but feel a drawing to this profession. I don't want to go into major debt, although am not completely debt-averse. I'll figure out finances if this is something that would truly be a wise decision. I'm a great writer (don't judge me by my writings on here lol), have a strong work-ethic, and can see myself doing this.

On the other hand, I've sort of enjoyed finance and banking courses and could see myself doing something in that if I decide against law.

Honestly, any advice from my post-undergraduate DIS peeps would be greatly appreciated. If you're a lawyer/attorney, what undergrad GPA did you have/LSAT score did you have to get into law school? Do you enjoy what you do? Would you change your course if you could have a do-over?

P.S. go easy on me! The Community Board can be ruthless, but take pity on me! I'm a mere college student!

What's your bachelor degree in? Why not get a job in that field?

 

[Princess Mulan]

Hey all! I'm currently in university right now and am wondering what I should do after graduation. I've started seriously considering law, but am not sure if that is a wise choice. I will more than likely graduate with a 3.4-3.5 GPA (maybe a bit higher depending on how the reset of the semesters play out), taking a fairly difficult course of study my school offers. I know attorneys IRL aren't like on T.V., but feel a drawing to this profession. I don't want to go into major debt, although am not completely debt-averse. I'll figure out finances if this is something that would truly be a wise decision. I'm a great writer (don't judge me by my writings on here lol), have a strong work-ethic, and can see myself doing this.

On the other hand, I've sort of enjoyed finance and banking courses and could see myself doing something in that if I decide against law.

Honestly, any advice from my post-undergraduate DIS peeps would be greatly appreciated. If you're a lawyer/attorney, what undergrad GPA did you have/LSAT score did you have to get into law school? Do you enjoy what you do? Would you change your course if you could have a do-over?

P.S. go easy on me! The Community Board can be ruthless, but take pity on me! I'm a mere college student!

I suggest talking to a variety of lawyers in your region to get an honest assessment of whether law school would be a good bet for you. With the downturn in the economy (post 2008), many students opted for law school at the same time as law firms began decreasing their employment. As a result, a law degree does not guarantee employment. Also, pay for new lawyers has decreased, and it can be difficult to repay student loans.

Of course, your chances for employment and a good salary dramatically increase if you attend a respected law school and have excellent grades and class rank. A respected law school doesn’t mean only Harvard, Yale, University of Virginia, etc. It could mean your state’s flagship school, but, again, talking to attorneys in your area can help steer you to schools that would be good bets for employment.

Good luck and enjoy exploring your future!

 

[mnrose]

I'm a lawyer, now retired. It's not about getting into law school (that isn't THAT difficult), but getting into a GOOD law school, AND getting the GPA there that will net you a good job at the end. There are PLENTY of law school grads struggling mightily to pay back their rather prodigious loans. At the tail end of my career, I interviewed MANY law school grads....to be paralegals.

It's a saturated profession currently. That is not to say that you can't still do very well. BUT, you need to be in a top 20 law school, and then kick *** while there (top 20%). And, remember that everyone in that law school (a good one) is a "good" student. Competition is cut throat. Most work I've ever done is being in law school.

I don't recall precise scores, but my GPA was nearly all A's (probably in the 3.75 or higher range) and LSAT top 1-2% when I got into a good school, and finished 3rd in my class of 250 students. I got hired by a very prestigious firm. But 1/2 my class ended up working at much lesser jobs.

ETA: I DID enjoy the practice of law for the most part. It's mentally stimulating work, you work with highly intelligent people (makes for excellent side conversations, IMO), and on really good days, you feel like you are "making a difference." But, it is nothing like what you see on TV! Some days are sheer drudgery. There is also the fact that you are never "off" work....you think about it (mulling over problems in your head) all the time, and emergencies come up which necessitate cancelling vacations and time off. Would I do it again today? I'm not sure, honestly. The profession is much more saturated and it is tougher to "make it." But, like I say, I did enjoy my work.

 

[Princess Mulan]

I'm a lawyer, now retired. It's not about getting into law school (that isn't THAT difficult), but getting into a GOOD law school, AND getting the GPA there that will net you a good job at the end. There are PLENTY of law school grads struggling mightily to pay back their rather prodigious loans. At the tail end of my career, I interviewed MANY law school grads....to be paralegals.

It's a saturated profession currently. That is not to say that you can't still do very well. BUT, you need to be in a top 20 law school, and then kick *** while there (top 20%). And, remember that everyone in that law school (a good one) is a "good" student. Competition is cut throat. Most work I've ever done is being in law school.

I don't recall precise scores, but my GPA was nearly all A's (probably in the 3.75 or higher range) and LSAT top 1-2% when I got into a good school, and finished 3rd in my class of 250 students. I got hired by a very prestigious firm. But 1/2 my class ended up working at much lesser jobs.

This is excellent advice!

 

[ZephyrHawk]

I'm an attorney, and so is DH. However, I will only speak for myself since his experience was...atypical.

I was a science (triple) major in undergrad. I don't exactly remember what my final GPA was, but it was likely 3.7-something. I did manage to graduate from my university's honors college. Afterwards, I worked a year in research, but by the time I graduated I had realized that science fields were not going to fulfill all of my critical life needs (e.g., $$). I had no interest in medicine, so I decided I would take the LSAT (all the cool kids were doing it), and if I got at least the mean entrance score for my undergrad alma mater's law school, then I would apply. I really didn't have any interest in going to a different school, I wanted to stay where I was. I ended up with exactly the mean entrance score for my school, which at that time was 164 (I think they may have changed the scoring around since then, though). I applied, got in, and did my 2.5 years (I was a "summer starter", so I graduated early).

It was a terrible, no fun, very bad experience.

I'm not saying it would be like that for everyone, but it was for me. See, I had decided on law school on something of a lark. My good grades and fairly high scores were enough to get me into some of the top schools in the country, but there were kids in my class who had fought for their places. They had taken classes for the LSAT, and were paying out of state tuition just for the chance to go to my school. Man, did my adequate 164 seem tiny when 2 people sitting around me in my very first class fessed up to having made a perfect 180. These kids worked like crazy all through law school. It was...a bit competitive, to say the least. I never had a chance getting on Law Review (where the editors proudly posted on their office doors which Supreme Court Justices had offered them clerking positions). I was literally afraid to try mock trial. I did not graduate with honors.

But I graduated. And I got a job. That was a big deal right at the beginning of the great recession. Mind you, it was a job I hated with a passion for a good 8 years, but I don't blame the law for that. I blame the people at my old firm, and an economic downturn which made it imperative for me to keep that job. Understand, I do not love working in law. But working in law pays my bills. Bills which include the combination of DH and my law school student loans. Now, 10+ years after our graduations, our loans are still astronomical. I'm no longer in a position that I hate. I'm good at what I do, so whether or not I like it is sort of a moot point.

When colleagues and friends ask if I'd be willing to talk to their kids who are interested in going to law school, I demure. I tell them, "Don't let me talk to your kids unless you really don't want them going into law." My experience was not a good one. I don't know what I would have done had I not gone to law school. I don't think I could have reasonably stayed in research. Or if I had, I would have had to switch universities, which would have meant (at the time) moving away from my fiance. That was not something I was willing to do. In retrospect, I probably would have done well in medicine, but I'm not sure what quality of life I would have had (and my student loan situation would be even worse).

In conclusion, I'd say go in to law if you're passionate about it. If you're not, you might want to look elswhere.

 

[Princess Mulan]

I'm an attorney, and so is DH. However, I will only speak for myself since his experience was...atypical.

I was a science (triple) major in undergrad. I don't exactly remember what my final GPA was, but it was likely 3.7-something. I did manage to graduate from my university's honors college. Afterwards, I worked a year in research, but by the time I graduated I had realized that science fields were not going to fulfill all of my critical life needs (e.g., $$). I had no interest in medicine, so I decided I would take the LSAT (all the cool kids were doing it), and if I got at least the mean entrance score for my undergrad alma mater's law school, then I would apply. I really didn't have any interest in going to a different school, I wanted to stay where I was. I ended up with exactly the mean entrance score for my school, which at that time was 164 (I think they may have changed the scoring around since then, though). I applied, got in, and did my 2.5 years (I was a "summer starter", so I graduated early).

It was a terrible, no fun, very bad experience.

I'm not saying it would be like that for everyone, but it was for me. See, I had decided on law school on something of a lark. My good grades and fairly high scores were enough to get me into some of the top schools in the country, but there were kids in my class who had fought for their places. They had taken classes for the LSAT, and were paying out of state tuition just for the chance to go to my school. Man, did my adequate 164 seem tiny when 2 people sitting around me in my very first class fessed up to having made a perfect 180. These kids worked like crazy all through law school. It was...a bit competitive, to say the least. I never had a chance getting on Law Review (where the editors proudly posted on their office doors which Supreme Court Justices had offered them clerking positions). I was literally afraid to try mock trial. I did not graduate with honors.

But I graduated. And I got a job. That was a big deal right at the beginning of the great recession. Mind you, it was a job I hated with a passion for a good 8 years, but I don't blame the law for that. I blame the people at my old firm, and an economic downturn which made it imperative for me to keep that job. Understand, I do not love working in law. But working in law pays my bills. Bills which include the combination of DH and my law school student loans. Now, 10+ years after our graduations, our loans are still astronomical. I'm no longer in a position that I hate. I'm good at what I do, so whether or not I like it is sort of a moot point.

When colleagues and friends ask if I'd be willing to talk to their kids who are interested in going to law school, I demure. I tell them, "Don't let me talk to your kids unless you really don't want them going into law." My experience was not a good one. I don't know what I would have done had I not gone to law school. I don't think I could have reasonably stayed in research. Or if I had, I would have had to switch universities, which would have meant (at the time) moving away from my fiance. That was not something I was willing to do. In retrospect, I probably would have done well in medicine, but I'm not sure what quality of life I would have had (and my student loan situation would be even worse).

In conclusion, I'd say go in to law if you're passionate about it. If you're not, you might want to look elswhere.

This is helpful info, OP.

You also might consider working for a law firm as a “runner” to see if the field interests you. Even though it’s a non-legal, typically part-time job, it can give you some idea of the stress and long hours that most attorneys deal with. Remember that lawyers are paid for their time, so to pay all of the office expenses (payroll, utilities, mortgage, insurance, etc.) and their own salaries, lawyers typically work long hours that include nighttime and weekends. The stress of clients’ very serious legal issues and the stress of earning money can be difficult, to say the least.

New lawyers must earn enough to pay their own salaries and contribute to the office expenses, so the pressure upon them can be intense. Law firm partners are not inclined to think kindly of attorneys who cannot pull their weight.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

My DS20 is a 3rd year at the University of Virginia in the McIntire School of Commerce (Finance major). He struggled with the same decision a couple of years ago - Finance or Pre Law. After talking to my brother, who is an attorney, he chose Finance. My brother told him exactly what a couple of previous posters who are attorneys have shared. The degree is expensive, competition is fierce for top schools, top clerkships, top jobs; hours are long (especially in the beginning); work life balance can be a challenge.

But DS is finding that Finance is not much better. He has been applying and interviewing for internships for the summer between junior and senior year since late August. Internships are a "must have" for UVA Comm kids. He has a 3.7 and has applied for 50 internships, gotten 40 rejections, 5 first round interviews, 1 super day of interviews (with a mutual fund company, but he didn't get it) and 1 offer. Kids interview in 4 areas: Investment Banking (80+ hour work weeks, super competitive), Consulting (kids studied cases all summer to prepare for those interviews because they are so competitive), Asset/Wealth Management and Corporate Finance. His classes this semester have been absolutely brutal. He says he hasn't slept a full night or seen his friends in weeks. We keep telling him it will be worth it in the end. I really hope that is the case!

What year are you in school? How competitive is your university's business program? Where do they place kids after graduation? Which companies recruit at your school? Are internship opportunities available through your career services department? A strong program and top grades coupled with grit and determination help tremendously.

PS - I was a Business Management Major at William & Mary. I worked in banking for 6 years, hating every second of it. I went back to grad school, got a MA in English Lit and my teaching certificate. I now teach middle school Language Arts and am the Assistant Principal at my small private school. I don't make killer money, but I love what I do.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Honestly, any advice from my post-undergraduate DIS peeps would be greatly appreciated. If you're a lawyer/attorney, what undergrad GPA did you have/LSAT score did you have to get into law school? Do you enjoy what you do? Would you change your course if you could have a do-over?

P.S. go easy on me! The Community Board can be ruthless, but take pity on me! I'm a mere college student!

My experience is dated, so take it FWIW. I graduated with about a 3.20 GPA at a school with a good regional reputation and got a 37 on the LSAT (pre-1991 scoring--like I said, my experience is dated). I think that was about the 75th percentile, give or take. I'm not sure I would've been accepted now at the school that accepted me. I know it's much more competitive now.

I came out of law school only owing about 20K, but that's in 1980s dollars, so that's like $1,000,000 today. Seriously, it wasn't that much and I paid it off in about 5 years. I look at the cost today and it's daunting. There are ways to offset the cost, either through public service as a civilian attorney or as a Judge Advocate in the military. Both of those are rewarding career paths but have drawbacks, too.

I was a Navy JAG out of law school and loved the hell out of it. If I'd been single, I would've stayed in--looking back, I probably should've stayed in, anyway. But the Cold War was ending and there was a huge military drawdown. DW and I had 2 small children, and with the uncertainty in the military at that time we decided to come back home and I got a job with a small firm. I did insurance litigation for several years, hated every day of it and was thinking about giving up practicing law altogether. But eventually I returned to government service and absolutely love what I do. So finding the right job is extremely important and I consider myself fortunate to have navigated a couple of big changes and eventually end up someplace I'm happy.

Whenever I'm asked by prospective law students for my advice, I usually boil it down to 2 things:

1. There are too many lawyers, but there's always room for 1 more good one;

2. I think back to the old advice an actor gave to someone thinking about making the theater a career: "If you can be happy doing anything else, go do it." There are a lot of things about law school and practicing law that are less than magical, not the least of which is the cost and soft job market. It's a worthwhile profession and I feel privileged to be part of it, but you have to really want it and you have to ensure you're on the right career path for it to be the right thing for you.

 

[Princess Mulan]

My experience is dated, so take it FWIW. I graduated with about a 3.20 GPA at a school with a good regional reputation and got a 37 on the LSAT (pre-1991 scoring--like I said, my experience is dated). I think that was about the 75th percentile, give or take. I'm not sure I would've been accepted now at the school that accepted me. I know it's much more competitive now.

I came out of law school only owing about 20K, but that's in 1980s dollars, so that's like $1,000,000 today. Seriously, it wasn't that much and I paid it off in about 5 years. I look at the cost today and it's daunting. There are ways to offset the cost, either through public service as a civilian attorney or as a Judge Advocate in the military. Both of those are rewarding career paths but have drawbacks, too.

Whenever I'm asked by prospective law students for my advice, I usually boil it down to 2 things:

1. There are too many lawyers, but there's always room for 1 more good one;

2. I think back to the old advice an actor gave to someone thinking about making the theater a career: "If you can be happy doing anything else, go do it." There are a lot of things about law school and practicing law that are less than magical, not the least of which is the cost and soft job market. It's a worthwhile profession and I feel privileged to be part of it, but you have to really want it and you have to ensure you're on the right career path for it to be the right thing for you.

C6H0

(To everyone else, forgive the “inside joke.”)

 

[Praying Colonel]

C6H0

(To everyone else, forgive the “inside joke.”)

I wish there were some way I could double "like" this.

 

[amberpi]

This is helpful info, OP.

You also might consider working for a law firm as a “runner” to see if the field interests you. Even though it’s a non-legal, typically part-time job, it can give you some idea of the stress and long hours that most attorneys deal with.

This is good advice. Part of the reason I didn't go into law was because I worked for my uncle's law firm during undergrad summers.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Do what you're passionate about.

 

[DisneylandDarling]

Thank you, thank you for all of the replies. I really appreciate the time spent having to type out the detailed responses - they're very helpful! Great things to think about.

If I did go into law, I would want to work for the DA's office or in some type of government setting. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[nkereina]

I got my undergraduate degree in Hospitality Management and very quickly learned that I was not passionate about it. Therefore, I was not willing to put in the hours for mediocre pay, or move away from my home city for better job opportunities. About 3 years after my undergrad, I debated going for my MBA or JD. I ended up going with the MBA since it's more broad, and finished within 18 months. I now work in banking and really enjoy it. It's lucrative, has an excellent work-life balance, and there are several avenues I can take for growth opportunities. Good luck to you!

 

[DisneylandDarling]

I got my undergraduate degree in Hospitality Management and very quickly learned that I was not passionate about it. Therefore, I was not willing to put in the hours for mediocre pay, or move away from my home city for better job opportunities. About 3 years after my undergrad, I debated going for my MBA or JD. I ended up going with the MBA since it's more broad, and finished within 18 months. I now work in banking and really enjoy it. It's lucrative, has an excellent work-life balance, and there are several avenues I can take for growth opportunities. Good luck to you!

That's what I love to hear! Thanks for your response. Sounds like banking and finance may be the way to go, which I'm on the path for already.