ADA/Autism WDW and DL Request Letter - update 12/9/16 readmission passes NOT required. See page 2

[bpellis]

I know some of you all have been involved and/or following the developments concerning the ADA suits against Disney concerning the accommodations provided by Disney as they relate to individuals with Autism. Based on those cases and some of the findings made by judges in those cases, here are two forms, created by the Dogali Law firm which has been the lead firm in the case against Disney. These forms can be used to request readmission passes for attractions. In case anyone is not familiar, readmission passes work with the existing DAS, but unlike the DAS, they do not require the individual to have to wait for X minutes until they can come back (appointment time), but rather can be used to enter the fastpass line, or other access line, at the time they are redeemed (immediately). I have used readmission passes in the past for my daughter who has Autism.

 

[Aladora]

I know some of you all have been involved and/or following the developments concerning the ADA suits against Disney concerning the accommodations provided by Disney as they relate to individuals with Autism. Based on those cases and some of the findings made by judges in those cases, here are two forms, created by the Dogali Law firm which has been the lead firm in the case against Disney. These forms can be used to request readmission passes for attractions. In case anyone is not familiar, readmission passes work with the existing DAS, but unlike the DAS, they do not require the individual to have to wait for X minutes until they can come back (appointment time), but rather can be used to enter the fastpass line, or other access line, at the time they are redeemed (immediately). I have used readmission passes in the past for my daughter who has Autism.

Didn't the judge in this case just dismiss a whole bunch of the lawsuits brought about by this legal team?

Disney wins 45 more autism lawsuits, but appeals filed.

 

[bpellis]

Didn't the judge in this case just dismiss a whole bunch of the lawsuits brought about by this legal team?

Disney wins 45 more autism lawsuits, but appeals filed.

I can't speak to the specifics of the judges findings or the legal interpretations. However from the request letter, it states:

"At least two federal judges have determined that Disney’s disability policy includes the DAS and readmission passes. And the Florida Commission on Human Relations has found, on 13 separate occasions, that the DAS, without readmission passes, provides inadequate accommodation"

So I take from this that Disney's policy includes both (or should) DAS and readmission passes, not just DAS. At least this appears based on the wording how the Dogali firm interprets the various orders in the case. As someone with a child with Autism who visits the parks, if Disney is now required to provide her with readmission passes in addition to the DAS, I believe that is a positive for her and the Autism community, as I know this modification to the system would be very beneficial to many families.

I've got an trip coming up in about two weeks, and I went ahead and used these letters to request readmission passes at WDW for my daughter. I will see what the response is that I get.

 

[Aladora]

I can't speak to the specifics of the judges findings or the legal interpretations. However from the request letter, it states:

"At least two federal judges have determined that Disney’s disability policy includes the DAS and readmission passes. And the Florida Commission on Human Relations has found, on 13 separate occasions, that the DAS, without readmission passes, provides inadequate accommodation"

So I take from this that Disney's policy includes both (or should) DAS and readmission passes, not just DAS. At least this appears based on the wording how the Dogali firm interprets the various orders in the case. As someone with a child with Autism who visits the parks, if Disney is now required to provide her with readmission passes in addition to the DAS, I believe that is a positive for her and the Autism community, as I know this modification to the system would be very beneficial to many families.

I've got an trip coming up in about two weeks, and I went ahead and used these letters to request readmission passes at WDW for my daughter. I will see what the response is that I get.

I posted the link because I would not personally be too comfortable using a "legal" letter from a law firm that seems to be losing every single time they go up against Disney in these lawsuits. They make claims in the letter that I would question and for people who might not be up to date on the lawsuits, it might be an unpleasant surprise if they walk into GR expecting Disney to read the letter and give them what they are demanding.

Disney has been very clear about the changes to the system and as well, about how the readmits were to be used as a temporary measure to help guests with disabilities make the change from the old GAC to the new DAS. The Disney system is as good or better than what is offered at other parks and they are absolutely not required to provide guests with readmit passes, regardless of what the law firm who is suing Disney claims.

As someone with a child with Autism who visits the parks, I am pleased that Disney has provided my son with a program that allows him equal access to the parks and I feel as though demanding "at least 8 readmission passes" crosses the line form equal access to excess access over and above what the neurotypical guest enjoys.

But really, I was just posting the link to let people know that this legal sounding letter might not be the silver bullet to readmits as it sounds.

 

[lanejudy]

Guests are welcome to discuss their/children's needs with Guest Relations. The accommodations provided may vary based on needs. It is my understanding that "readmits" are one item Guest Relations may be able to offer to guests, however it is not likely to be the first accommodation offered nor is it likely to be offered/available for a full day's worth of touring or multiple days.

Yes, there have been some recent decisions in court. Here is a thread that may help explain those decisions.

Disney does not require, and may even refuse to read, letters requesting accommodations. Each guest (or parent) requesting accommodations should be able to explain their needs in their own words. The DISboards does not allow "scripts" to be posted. As has always been recommended -- if you request an accommodation and are either 1) denied your initial request or 2) find the accommodation offered still doesn't help, guests are welcome and encouraged to return to Guest Relations and discuss the specifics of their situation.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[Aladora]

Disney does not require, and may even refuse to read, letters requesting accommodations. Each guest (or parent) requesting accommodations should be able to explain their needs in their own words. The DISboards does not allow "scripts" to be posted. As has always been recommended -- if you request an accommodation and are either 1) denied your initial request or 2) find the accommodation offered still doesn't help, guests are welcome and encouraged to return to Guest Relations and discuss the specifics of their situation.

Enjoy your vacation!

I edited my original post to remove the quote with the links to the letters.

 

[bpellis]

Appreciate it, and I see your point. I will report back if and when I hear from Disney. As with anything else, everyone's situation is different, and everyone can approach their accommodations differently. However, if Disney is now required based on the court rulings to provide readmits, it doesn't mean they will necessarily publicize that. I think using forums like these to make sure parents are fully aware of what is required and what they are able to obtain is important, as I have had many dealings with Guest Relations concerning disability access, and the consistency and accuracy of those do not always hold true, and the continuing to go to Guest Relations multiple times during a trip should not be the norm. Also, knowing what types of accommodations will be provided in advance of a trip is useful for planning purposes. I have personally had readmits granted to my daughter, and granted prior to a multi-day trip. This tremendously helped in the planning process, as I knew what to expect, how many readmits she would have for each day, etc. If someone doesn't want that, they can just speak to GR when they are at the park.

My apologies for posting the links to the form letters if it is against DisBoard policy. If someone wishes to see an example of these letters, they are welcome to PM me and I will provide them with the letter that I used for an example.

 

[lanejudy]

However, if Disney is now required based on the court rulings to provide readmits, it doesn't mean they will necessarily publicize that.

My understanding -- and I'm not a lawyer -- but I do not understand the rulings to mean Disney must provide readmits simply because it's requested. Those are, and have been for a long time, one of several accommodations Disney may offer depending on the needs of the requesting guest. To my knowledge the court rulings haven't particularly changed anything at this time.

I do hope your family has a wonderful vacation!

 

[bpellis]

My understanding -- and I'm not a lawyer -- but I do not understand the rulings to mean Disney must provide readmits simply because it's requested. Those are, and have been for a long time, one of several accommodations Disney may offer depending on the needs of the requesting guest. To my knowledge the court rulings haven't particularly changed anything at this time.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I do spend considerable amount of time in a legal environment (for work), and at least from my reading of the orders and the specific language contained therein, I believe there was confirmation that Disney's disability system, as it pertains to autism, provides reasonable accommodations if it contains both the DAS and Readmission passes. That I believe was clear to me from the plain language. I suppose with anything, someone can reach a different legal conclusion, but I see the logic and reasoning in the orders for this position. Perhaps Disney at some point will answer this question.

 

[SueM in MN]

As Aladora posted in a link, 45 lawsuits were dismissed.
In addition, the WDW and DL websites's pages about DAS indicate that any accommodations are given AT Guest Relations at the parks, not ahead of time. My understanding is that is to prevent fraud.

There is a thread on the DIS Podcast Board which discusses the most recent developments in this case, as explained by a DIS Boards member, Jack Burgin, who is a lawyer and has been following the case from the beginning.

This is a link to that thread:
http://www.disboards.com/threads/th...ss-service-lawsuit-update-on-florida.3548111/

I am aware of that the Florida Commission on Human Relations ruled that Disney discriminated against the autistic visitors who brought the lawsuit (that is the 13 cases). But, my understanding is the Florida Commission on Human Relations is an advisory panel with no ability to force anything to be done, so can't require Disney to do anything.
I am not aware of any other judgements or courts ruling in favor of the group/individuals who filed the lawsuits.

 

[SueM in MN]

These are links to Jack's blog posts explaining the case, in chronological order:

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/04/04/new-lawsuit-attacks-disneys-new-disability-access-service/

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/07/13/disney-responds-to-disability-access-service-lawsuit/

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2014/09/16/disney-opposes-inflammatory-amended-complaint-in-das-lawsuit/

http://blog.wdwinfo.com/2015/11/02/disney-asks-court-to-dismiss-autismdas-lawsuit/

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/federal-court-rules-for-disney-in-lead-dasautism-lawsuit/(April 29, 2016)

 

[bpellis]

In addition, the WDW and DL websites's pages about DAS indicate that any accommodations are given AT Guest Relations at the parks, not ahead of time. My understanding is that is to prevent fraud.

This isn't always the case. As mentioned in a earlier post, I know from personal experience that accommodations can be given in advance.

I am not aware of any other judgements in favor of the group/individuals who filed the lawsuits.

I believe the judgements/orders referenced by the Dogali letter are the existing ones. From my own legal experience, dismissals are not always the same as losing a case, it really depends on the specific language involved. Looking at some specific language of one of the orders, it states that the:

"existing disability program - a combination of the DAS and distribution of readmission passes – does not violate the ADA"

This language is repeated in multiple instances. Does this mean that in order to not violate ADA the system must include both DAS and readmission passes? That is clearly what that judge believes comprised the existing disability program when the ruling was made, and which led them to conclude it doesn't violate ADA. Again, that is one way all of this can be read and I believe logical.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Really, really inappropriate, IMO. This smacks of that shady law firm trying to catch Disney at something so that they can go whining back to court.

Plus, has the CA case been decided? If not , the judge's ruling in FL is meaningless in CA.

What a joke.

 

[J'aime Paris]

I read the readmission letters on the law firm website.

"...at least 8 readmissions ..." according to the form

plus the usage of DAS accommodations
and don't forget FP+ reservations as well

This really seems excessive!! Waiting in lines or at an alternate environment is a part of life. Disney doesn't owe anyone a pass to circumvent that. And I think they do a great job with the DAS.

I'm a huge supporter of rights for the disabled/differently abled. I worked as a Special Education Aide for many years.
We had many students that had trouble waiting their turn, didn't fully understand instructions, non verbal, cognitively low, ADHD, ASD, you name it!
Guess what???? They all had to experience how to share turns, be a bit patient, learn social conventions. These are important life skills.

We used a myriad of coping strategies, distraction games, fiddles, ipads, noise canceling headphones, allow child to stim to self regulate, alternate environment, etc. You get the idea.

People wait in line to check your groceries or buy clothes.
People wait to be served at a restaurant or in a drive thru lane.
People wait to be called for a dentist, doctor or therapist appt.
People wait for a concert, parade or movie to begin.

These families that are suing need to get a grip!
Some families are dealing with a terminal illness, cancer or a severely debilitating physical injury.

 

[wilkeliza]

Didn't a judge rule that with FP+ and DAS guests actually get above and beyond accommodations so threw out a ton of lawsuits?

I bet you show up with a legal letter or send it before hand and you are going to have a much harder time on property.

 

[bpellis]

Really, really inappropriate, IMO. This smacks of that shady law firm trying to catch Disney at something so that they can go whining back to court.

To each their own opinion, I guess I see things differently. To me, we have ADA for a reason. If a company needs to do something to comply, then they need to do it. Even if you love the Company, their products, movies, parks.. doesn't give them a pass from compliance. And if they don't comply, I have nothing wrong with a law firm trying to hold them accountable.

 

[bpellis]

Didn't a judge rule that with FP+ and DAS guests actually get above and beyond accommodations so threw out a ton of lawsuits?

I believe the judge stated that readmission passes and DAS meet the requirements of ADA for reasonable accomodations. See the language I quoted earlier.

 

[wilkeliza]

I believe the judge stated that readmission passes and DAS meet the requirements of ADA for reasonable accomodations. See the language I quoted earlier.

On the one you are quoting it only pertains to that plaintiff and actually says that the readmit passes plus the DAS gives them a greater experience then the standard patron. It also goes on to say that since the defendant can enter another line while holding a DAS return time again they are having an experience that another guest can not have by default.

 

[wilkeliza]

A reduced line plus the ability to being waiting for another ride on their DAS at the same, have any other additional readmits to then get straight into a different FP line, and be holding 3 FP+ still. So all of that combined would be more than the standard guest experience.

 

[bpellis]

A reduced line plus the ability to being waiting for another ride on their DAS at the same, have any other additional readmits to then get straight into a different FP line, and be holding 3 FP+ still. So all of that combined would be more than the standard guest experience.

Other than all the other stuff that makes children with autism different. Not being able to go into stores/shops. Not being able to go by certain things, having to walk out of the way. Some with vastly different motor skills, slow walking. Not being able to be at a park for more than 2 hours. Having to ride attractions in a given order, ride the same ride 3 times. Coupled that it doesn't work for a number of character experiences or shows. Etc. etc. etc.

So even with DAS/Readmits/FP+, and I have been to WDW/DL with my daughter with autism and received all three of these and have been with typically developed children, I can promise you that it does not provide her with a "standard guest experience".