? about sniping

[jann1033]

I am suprised ebay allows sniping. it keeps the price from being bid up by the impulse buyers who see someone else bidding on an interestig item, then they often get jealous and bid more. Then more people see more bids for an item and they think they have to have it because so many others want it.

Mikeeee

no doubt that explains the high market for things like elvis's rancid old sweat socks

 

[MICKEY88]

I think snipes are evil, immoral, unethical...............




that's why I enjoy doing it so much...

 

[jfulcer]

sorry, OT...

I'm in a moral and ethical dilemna. I listed something on ebay with a buy it now for a 3 day auction. Some lady did a buy it now and a day later said "oh, I made a mistake". I'm like - fine, whatever. Just pay my relisting fee and we'll call it quits. Ebayer will refund me everything else, so it's a wash. So she then goes to try to pay me the relisting fee and pays the whole value of the item because she clicked the wrong buttons. Later that day she emailed again "oh, I made another mistake, i should just let me husband do this ebay stuff."

Ok, that's like 5-6 clicks at least that she got wrong. How can you go that wrong??? I'm of the mind that she just bought the item and she can relist it if she decided she did not want it. Just not sure it's the 'right thing' to do. decisions, decisions...

 

[Anewman]

sorry, OT...

I'm in a moral and ethical dilemna. I listed something on ebay with a buy it now for a 3 day auction. Some lady did a buy it now and a day later said "oh, I made a mistake". I'm like - fine, whatever. Just pay my relisting fee and we'll call it quits. Ebayer will refund me everything else, so it's a wash. So she then goes to try to pay me the relisting fee and pays the whole value of the item because she clicked the wrong buttons. Later that day she emailed again "oh, I made another mistake, i should just let me husband do this ebay stuff."

Ok, that's like 5-6 clicks at least that she got wrong. How can you go that wrong??? I'm of the mind that she just bought the item and she can relist it if she decided she did not want it. Just not sure it's the 'right thing' to do. decisions, decisions...

Have you ever seen those persons at the ATM that take like two hours to check their balance(my mom)??

I feel it is entirely possible for some one to be that EBAY illiterate, she might not have ANY idea how to go about sending money via paypal other than clicking through your auction.

still your call as to what action to take.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

sorry, OT...

I'm in a moral and ethical dilemna. I listed something on ebay with a buy it now for a 3 day auction. Some lady did a buy it now and a day later said "oh, I made a mistake". I'm like - fine, whatever. Just pay my relisting fee and we'll call it quits. Ebayer will refund me everything else, so it's a wash. So she then goes to try to pay me the relisting fee and pays the whole value of the item because she clicked the wrong buttons. Later that day she emailed again "oh, I made another mistake, i should just let me husband do this ebay stuff."

Ok, that's like 5-6 clicks at least that she got wrong. How can you go that wrong??? I'm of the mind that she just bought the item and she can relist it if she decided she did not want it. Just not sure it's the 'right thing' to do. decisions, decisions...

It could be an innocent mistake or it could be a clever scam. A common scam is to convince someone that you are overpaying them. You then get them to refund the overpayment. Once you've sent them real money, you discover that the payment you got from them was fradulent (usually a bouncing check).

This scam was popular in a lot of poorly regulated, high priced sales like horses. It would usually start with someone offering to buy your horse for $1,000 more than it was worth. The buyer would explain that they had a cashiers check that they would sign over to you but that they didn't want to cash themselves for some innocent sounding reason. They would offer to let you keep half of the cost above your asking price. People would take the deal, give them $500 in cash, and then find out the cashiers check was forged.

 

[seashoreCM]

If someone pays you too much via PayPal and you choose to refund the difference, use a PayPal refund transaction, not a brand new PayPal transaction.

From the example cited, be careful not to refund too much, making the same mistake the original payor made.

If someone chooses to pay you for his eBay won item using an oversized check, that is a strong likelihood of the abovementioned scam. You can send back the oversized check and claim that the item is still unpaid for until the buyer sends a check for the correct amount, although this does not guarantee that we do not have a scam. In any event I would not send back any change.

No bank employee I have asked (and I have asked several at different banks) has been able to tell me when a check has cleared for good.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[fitzperry]

It could be an innocent mistake or it could be a clever scam. A common scam is to convince someone that you are overpaying them. You then get them to refund the overpayment. Once you've sent them real money, you discover that the payment you got from them was fradulent (usually a bouncing check).

This scam was popular in a lot of poorly regulated, high priced sales like horses. It would usually start with someone offering to buy your horse for $1,000 more than it was worth. The buyer would explain that they had a cashiers check that they would sign over to you but that they didn't want to cash themselves for some innocent sounding reason. They would offer to let you keep half of the cost above your asking price. People would take the deal, give them $500 in cash, and then find out the cashiers check was forged.

That scam still seems to be quite popular. We listed my old Audi station wagon on eBay and got several emails containing similar offers.

If it seems too good to be true . . . . . yada yada yada.

 

[jann1033]

i got just one of these "offers" from something i listed on graig's list...according to that company it can take weeks for the fake money order, check, cashiers check to process and be found to be a fake....then you are left with zero.

but if i am understanding the original post right she paid you twice for something you aren't sending her? if it was through paypal, don't they take the money out right away( at least they do for me) so the chance of a scam would seem pretty slim

and since i'm probably known to be not all that ebay/ computer savvy...just let me say it wasn't me

 

[Groucho]

I'm surprised that no one has posted on how they think snipes are evil, immoral, unethical, anti-American, or whatever. It is often a hot-button topic.

(raises hand)

I hate sniping. Moreover, I hate the way eBay ignores it.

eBay's argument is that if you bid correctly, you will not be sniped. Ie, you make one bid which is the maximum that you're willing to spend. If you do that, then if you don't win it, it sold for more than you were willing to spend. A fair point, but still a huge cop-out.

I did not know that other auction sites extend the end time after the last bid - I've been wishing eBay would do the exact same thing for years. Why do they not? I can't imagine.

You would never go to a live auction and see sniping. That's the whole point of "going, going, gone"!

Continuing to allow sniping benefits nobody except perhaps the sniper, who may get a slightly cheaper price. Moving to the model where the auction will not end until it's gone 1-5 minutes without a bid would benefit the seller (more money), eBay (more commissions), and most buyers, who will have less of a "wild west" environment and will be able to get a better idea of the value of items.

And who would it hurt? Well, it might hurt a sniper who's trying to save a buck or two (at the expense of the seller), and it will hurt all the bottomfeeding companies who make money selling software designed to enable sniping. One simple eBay change and voila, that entire market is destroyed, and good riddance to 'em.

Unfortunately, I suspect eBay won't do that any time soon - they're still doing auctions with a ten-year-old internet mentality. And while I'm complaining, why is it so difficult to find "completed listings" when browsing for specific items? (I recently bought a used Xbox to use as a media player and as far as I can tell, if you browse to Xbox systems for sale, it's impossible to view completed items - you need to do a standard search.)

While I'm complaining, how about the way search results often have the wrong price listed? This is especially infuriating when you're looking at completed items - several times I'll see auctions that are over, and the price shown in the search results page is not the same price that you see when you look at the actual item.

OK, is that enough ranting for one message?

 

[Geoff_M]

Let's assume that you and the other person were both sniping. Because you were both sniping, neither expected to have the opportunity to place a second bid. That means that you both bid the most you were willing to pay. In that case, it doesn't really matter that his bid was after yours. He was willing to pay more for the converter. He got what he wanted at a price he was comfortable with. While you wanted the teleconverter, it sold for more than you were willing to pay. What's the problem?

I snipe the old-fashioned way... I do it myself! However, what you say above is only true if everyone truly is snipe bidding with a true personal "maximum bid". I always bid the max that I'm willing to pay, but what often wins me the item is that the other snipers use what they hope will be winning "low ball" bids as their maximum bids.

Unfortunately, I suspect eBay won't do that any time soon - they're still doing auctions with a ten-year-old internet mentality. And while I'm complaining, why is it so difficult to find "completed listings" when browsing for specific items? (I recently bought a used Xbox to use as a media player and as far as I can tell, if you browse to Xbox systems for sale, it's impossible to view completed items - you need to do a standard search.)

I'll be happy to play by the rules, whatever they are. But there's one major reason why eBay will be unlikely to make any changes. The money is where the buyers are, not the sellers. Therefore sites with rules that favor the buyers will be much more likely to succeed. Why would I, as a bidder, use a site that will likely cost me more to win the same item?

 

[caniswolfie]

I dislike sniping for the reason not necessarily having the chance to respond to a sniping attempt. Sometimes if someone bids my maximum by a dollar, I'll usually at least bump my max by 5 dollars (depending on the cost of the item). But sniping denies the opportunity. I don't get too upset about it since Ebay doesn't have a policy against it. Just a personal pet peeve.

As far as Ebay not changing it because the buyers are where the money is, I guess from a certain point of view that they need the buyers to actually buy items, but Ebay doesn't make any money off of the buyers. They make it off the sellers and also the higher the selling price the better Ebay makes out on the commissions. So I can see it that Ebay would be better off cracking down on sniping so that the auction prices go up and so does their commissions.

I don't think people would run to another service if they did crack down on sniping, but those companies whose business of sniping is ruined would be upset and possibly cause trouble.

 

[jann1033]

considering ebay will now let you set a group of similar items and they bid on them all for you till you win one i don't see sniping going anywhere...

however i also don't see how sniping hurts the seller. the sniping only happens in the last few seconds so how does it keep the price lower? if anything it would raise the price since the last bid might not get in otherwise...if the snipe is lower than the bids the snipe won't get it anyway and if no one bidding conventionally is willing to go higher then at least they get the few more bucks from the snipe.: if anything it hurts the buyer since if they aren't using a snipe( or have a lousy snipe like mine ) they don't get as much of a chance to try to make a last ditch bid but then again they can snipe if they want as well so i guess all is fair on ebay...sort of

 

[Groucho]

however i also don't see how sniping hurts the seller. the sniping only happens in the last few seconds so how does it keep the price lower? if anything it would raise the price since the last bid might not get in otherwise...if the snipe is lower than the bids the snipe won't get it anyway and if no one bidding conventionally is willing to go higher then at least they get the few more bucks from the snipe.: if anything it hurts the buyer since if they aren't using a snipe( or have a lousy snipe like mine ) they don't get as much of a chance to try to make a last ditch bid but then again they can snipe if they want as well so i guess all is fair on ebay...sort of

I made that statement because the way that most (probably) eBay users work is that they put their bid in for what they'd like to pay, not the maximum they're willing to pay.

The whole point of sniping is to count on the other person being willing to spend more money than they've bid, and that you're not giving them the chance to be able to do so. (That's why the bids are placed in the last second or two.) If a bidder realizes that the other people who are bidding have already put in the maximum amount they're willing to spend, then there's no reason to snipe.

Anyway, how many times have you heard someone say "I was bidding on that but got sniped at the last minute"? That's exactly what you describe in your original message - in this case, sniping hurt the buyer (because you were willing to spend more than the winning bid), eBay (smaller commission), and you (didn't get what you wanted).

If eBay allowed the auction to continue for a certain amount of time after the last bid (I like five minutes, but even one would help tremendously), then you might have bid a little higher and gotten what you wanted for not much difference in money. Even if you didn't get it, someone else would have spent even more, benefitting the buyer and eBay even more.

Unfortunately, eBay is so entrenched now that they can do whatever they want with little fear of people leaving.

 

[Geoff_M]

As far as Ebay not changing it because the buyers are where the money is, I guess from a certain point of view that they need the buyers to actually buy items, but Ebay doesn't make any money off of the buyers. They make it off the sellers and also the higher the selling price the better Ebay makes out on the commissions.

Yes, but in the world of eCommerce, the traffic is going to head to where the better deals can be had. Say I'm looking for a nice RBK 9K model red hockey helmet and I have two auction sites to choose from. I know that one has policies that favor the buyer and will likely get me the helmet at a lower final price and another site know for policies that drive up the final price for a seller.... which site will I try and spend my money at? The answer is: The one most likely to get me the better deal as a buyer!

Also as a seller, I want to list my stuff on the site that's most likely to give me the largest number of people that will bid on it. The more people interested, the better the chance of a bidding war.

 

[Geoff_M]

Anyway, how many times have you heard someone say "I was bidding on that but got sniped at the last minute"?

If you hear someone say this, then one of two things happened:
1) The person really did bid the maximum amount they were willing to pay for it, but the sniper was willing to pay more. If this is the case, then the outcome would have been the same regardless of when the sniper put in their bid. This outcome is totally neutral to the seller.
2) The person didn't bid the true maximum they were willing to pay for the item (even if they were willing to only go a few dollars higher) and were hoping the low bid would hold out. If this is the case, well then I'd say "shame on them". eBay tells you upfront to bid your maximum. Anything less is a calculated gamble. When you gamble, sometimes the house wins and sometimes you do.

Why do I snipe? It's because I can't stand the pressure of being the high bidder in the last hours and hopping it will hold out. I like more of a "sealed bit" process and let the chips fall where they may. Bidding in advance it like showing your hand in poker.

 

[Anewman]

When I bid on an item I take the "ending time" into consideration. If the auction is supposed to end at 6 pm I EXPECT it to end at 6pm, I would hate if it were extended because persons kept bidding. My wife feels I spend too much time on there already, I can imagine the look on her face if I kept telling her "FIVE MORE MINUTES."

I really dont see the problem, snipers do enter the max they are willing to pay into the software how is it their fault that most others dont?

 

[jann1033]

If you hear someone say this, then one of two things happened:
1) The person really did bid the maximum amount they were willing to pay for it, but the sniper was willing to pay more. If this is the case, then the outcome would have been the same regardless of when the sniper put in their bid. This outcome is totally neutral to the seller.
2) The person didn't bid the true maximum they were willing to pay for the item (even if they were willing to only go a few dollars higher) and were hoping the low bid would hold out. If this is the case, well then I'd say "shame on them". eBay tells you upfront to bid your maximum. Anything less is a calculated gamble. When you gamble, sometimes the house wins and sometimes you do.

Why do I snipe? It's because I can't stand the pressure of being the high bidder in the last hours and hopping it will hold out. I like more of a "sealed bit" process and let the chips fall where they may. Bidding in advance it like showing your hand in poker.

i think the problem with this is really how can you tell how much to put in so in that case regular non snipe bidding is helpful..you know where you stand and do you want to pay $2 more or not...in my case i had to guess( it was a used item, so couldn't really go by any set cost) and guessed lower( although i maxed my bid at more than twice what was there up until 10 seconds before it closed...i think there is probably a better way but since that is the way ebay lets bids come in i guess that 's just the way it is. i snipe cause i hate staying up till midnight just to lose to some guy with faster dsl/computer than me

 

[Geoff_M]

I sniped and lost on a hockey helmet and 1/2 shield (for my son to use refereeing) a couple of weeks ago. If you look at completed items, unless it's a really rare item, there's good info about the prices that similar or identical items go for on average. I always try to do some research first on an item. In the case of the helmet I knew what I could buy a comparable one for locally new and decided that I wasn't going to go a dollar over $50. That's what I sniped, but the then current high bidder had more for their max bid amount so he won it. I wasn't upset because I couldn't try bidding a couple dollars more as a 2nd stab at it, because I had already drawn a line in the sand and wasn't going to go over it. There would be other helmets.

 

[seashoreCM]

I was at a "silent auction" several years ago, where people bid using sign-up sheets and the process resembled eBay (done manually) to some extent. And people were doing the equivalent of sniping! At about the appointed closing moment for various items I saw attendants throwing down cloths over one sign up sheet after another, sometimes just after someone added a bid and before the next person could step in.

One way that eBay could cut down on sniping as we know it is to have the auction end time be approximate, and the exact moment would have a random variance of about ten minutes either way.

If two or more people snipe, then it does not make any difference who bid last.

The sniper does not know the maximum bid of the high bidder showing.

i just keep telling myself the lens was probably filled with fungus anyway

If you had bid higher you could have seen for yourself.

Remember, unlike the silent auction I was at, eBay uses only enough of your maximum bid as is needed. The sniper would have been licking his wounds seeing that he was beat only by a tiny amount.