A few more questions, please (primarily about # of points and add ons)

[DopeysGal82]

I started a new thread because the last one was "should I or shouldn't I" and these are more specific questions.

1) What is the typical average amount of points people have? When they first buy? Down the road?

2) I have seen a LOT of threads about adding on. it seems most people have added on. Why is this? Do people typically add on and in what timeframe?

3) I've seen people mention in threads something like "I have 300 points at OKW, but I just added 50 points at BLT". What would be the benefit of having such a low number of points at another resort? Is it mainly for split stays? Or do people like to book the hottest days they need at 11mos, and add the rest at 7mos. I'm pretty sure from what I've read you could ONLY use those 50 points at the 11mos mark, and not any of the OKW points to book BLT at 11mos, you'd have to wait until 7 mos to apply OKW points to BLT. Is it something where you would book it at 11 months with this year's AND next year's points at BLT and then at 7 months, you can apply OKW points to it and get those BLT points for next year back? Or is it just to use 100 points at BLT every 2 years? I'm still waiting for my packet to be mailed to me, but I have a feeling this isn't explained clearly.

4) I could see us staying at almost any of the resorts at least once, but I think I really like the BWV and BCV (really, who can resist SAB). Is there a downside to buying these since they are a shorter contract. 40 years or 48 years, it all seems like forever to me. I haven't even been alive 40 years.

5) I'm planning to purchase Direct for the initial buy, just in case they add any other restrictions, etc. Is there any detriment at all for buying add-on points at resale? You'd still be considered a direct member, right? It would just mean that the add on points could not be used at some of the outside vendors, but the original points would still be original, right? And I could combine the old and new points in one ressie, right? So let's say I add BWV points to my BLT points, I could still combine both to get a Treehouse at the 7 month mark, right?

THANKS SO MUCH!

 

[drusba]

1. Hard to say, minimum buy requirements have ranged from 220 to 50 at times over all the years and then many who buy add-on. I would guess the median is near 210 and the average (mean) higher but that is just a guess. As to when they first buy from Disney, I would believe the majority usually buy the minimum available at the time.

2. For many, once you are in, you are hooked and the desire for add-on's becomes an obsession that can never be satisfied completely regardless of how many times you add-on (its like heroin). You want longer trips, you want more trips, you want bigger room ... everyone creates his own reasoning for it.

3. Only points attached to a resort can be used 11 months out at that resort; thus, having multple resorts does not provide the ability to combine points at 11 months out. Nevertheless, members want that 11 month adavantage particulary for a close to park resort where ressies 7 months out can be difficult at times. Low number of points can be for shorter stays, for double resort stays, or, as many do, for every other year or third year stays, e.g., with banking and borrowing, a 50 point contract provides 150 points every third year.

4. The shorter contract term is a downside for resorts like BCV, BWV and VWL, which end in 30 years not 40. If you are 55 or older and buying now, it may make no difference, if you are 30 and buying now, it should be a factor considered. Think about it, many on this site bought back in the early to mid-90s and they are now in their 60s or higher and going more often than they ever did before.

5. All points purchased resale since March 2011 are subject to the restriction that they cannot be used for the Disney Collections, a benefit many believe means nothing to them. Adding points via resale means those new ones will be subject to the same restriction, thus giving you a divided ownership where some points can be used for Disney Collections and some not. Personal view, at today's prices, resale v. Disney, one who knows about the resale market is probably making a very bad economical decision buying from Disney and is evaluating having the Disney Collection 1000 times more than it is worth. You should not assume Disney will make future resale restrictions or make them retroactive to previous resales; particularly if it did the latter there would be serious legal issues in doing so.

 

[lisa3635]

My responses are below, good luck!

I started a new thread because the last one was "should I or shouldn't I" and these are more specific questions.

1) What is the typical average amount of points people have? I'd guess probably 150-200 When they first buy? .160 used to be the minimum Disney would let people buyin at but that has been decreased in the last few years. 160 is probably still pretty average Down the road? Probably 150-200.

2) I have seen a LOT of threads about adding on. it seems most people have added on. Why is this? Do people typically add on and in what timeframe? I added on because I basically didn't have enough points for our trips and we were constantly renting points at a higher rate and it wasn't as cost effective and I liked having control of the reservations. It was about 2 years after I first bought that I added on. In addition, we liked to stay in studios initially and now prefer 1 bedrooms since we don't do the dining plan anymore.


3) I've seen people mention in threads something like "I have 300 points at OKW, but I just added 50 points at BLT". What would be the benefit of having such a low number of points at another resort? The benefit is you can bank and borrow the points at a particular resort to get 11 month home advantage. I own enough BLT points to get a week in a studio the first week of December at 11 months in a standard view which I would never be able to get with my SSR points. Is it mainly for split stays? Or do people like to book the hottest days they need at 11mos, and add the rest at 7mos. I'm pretty sure from what I've read you could ONLY use those 50 points at the 11mos mark, That is true and not any of the OKW points to book BLT at 11mos, you'd have to wait until 7 mos to apply OKW points to BLT. Is it something where you would book it at 11 months with this year's AND next year's points at BLT and then at 7 months, you can apply OKW points to it and get those BLT points for next year back? Or is it just to use 100 points at BLT every 2 years? Yep or every third years if you borrow I'm still waiting for my packet to be mailed to me, but I have a feeling this isn't explained clearly.

4) I could see us staying at almost any of the resorts at least once, but I think I really like the BWV and BCV (really, who can resist SAB). Is there a downside to buying these since they are a shorter contract. 40 years or 48 years, I think it's actually 32 vs 48, right? The maintenance fees are higher as well. BCV is often difficult to get at 7 months so if you wanted BCV most of the time it would certainly make sense to purchase there. it all seems like forever to me. I haven't even been alive 40 years.

5) I'm planning to purchase Direct for the initial buy, just in case they add any other restrictions, etc. Is there any detriment at all for buying add-on points at resale? You'd still be considered a direct member, right? Only your points at that purchased directly from Disney would be considered direct if you added on via resale, ie you couldn't use your resale points for the items that are not restricted, but they are such a poor use of points I dont' understand why it would really matter to most people. It would just mean that the add on points could not be used at some of the outside vendors, but the original points would still be original, right? Yes. And I could combine the old and new points in one ressie, right? Yes at 11 months if they are both the same resort and 7 months if they are different resorts. So let's say I add BWV points to my BLT points, I could still combine both to get a Treehouse at the 7 month mark, right? You could, but treehouses are going to be tough to get at 7 months anytime of the year given that they are same points as 2 bedrooms and there are so many SSR owners.

I read your other thread and really think SSR on the resale market would be such a better way to go for your, just my two cents of course.
THANKS SO MUCH!

 

[DopeysGal82]

Thanks! That clears it all up!

DH is like a man on a mission. I suggested we try to find a 100 point $100 resale for BLT, which would be less than half of what we're paying for 160 direct. If we waited a few months we could save enough to buy it in cash, rather than financing it. But he's SO determined to stick with our contract and buy direct. My stubborn DH! It's also emotional. We finally got done with paying for the wedding, he has a great job now and we struggled for so long, I think it gives him a good feeling to plunk down the cash direct, and to know we're locked in for years of vacations.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Your first question is the one that troubled me when first looking into it. How many points will I need????

Well we won't be traveling every year. More like every 18 months. We plan on Nov. 2012, then summer 2014, then Nov. 2015. So 3 trips in four years. And unless things change (probably not as our careers are locked in at this point) We will stay on this travel schedule. So for 2016, we will probably skip, and go summer 2017 again with a fall trip in 2018. Fall trips will be 5 nights, and summers 6 or 7.

So with this schedule, with banking and borrowing, we are looking at a 100 point purchase. I have figured I can make it work with studio's in the fall and 1 bedroom in the summers. If we find that we don't like studio's in the future, then we will add points. I feel like buying lower and adding on, the only lost expense for me will be closing costs. I'd rather pay an extra $450 in closing costs in a few years to add on, then to pay extra in dues until then if I don't need to. If we didn't own DVC, we would be staying in a Moderate resort anyway, so it's not very different than a studio in my eyes. I am going on the lower end for points because we have friends who bought too many. And in 5 years if we find we don't stay on this schedule and end up going LESS often, you can bank and borrow to actually skip 2 years between trips and use 3 years worth of points (if planned correctly).

As far as the 2042 vs 2054,57 and 60 end dates??? Well, I use them as a basis for price per point buyin. I figure I have to balance out the up front cost vs the length. For me, a $70 per point buy in (talking resale) at a 2042 end date would give me 32 years of points. At 100 ppy that's 3200 points left on the contract (including 2012 points) So $7000 buyin divided by 3200 points is about $2.19 per point over the life. a BLT resale at say $95 per point has 4800 points on the life. 9500 divided by 4800 is $1.98 per point. So it seems cheaper per point, but I will also be paying dues for 18 extra years. So, you need to determine how long you rather own it for as well. At ages 37 and 34, we are thinking BLT because my wife prefers it, and as we get older, we will probably add our kids names to the contract so they can take it over. Who knows. I'm hoping that in 15 years, it will have paid itself off in memories and $ so if we no longer need it when the kids go off the college (or whatever endeavors they move on too) we can decide what to do with it then. After 15 years, it's still around and people are still buying, so anything is possible.

 

[DopeysGal82]

Yeah. It's hard to predict. Initially I was thinking 100, but I think 160 is good. As it is right now, we're planning:

May 2012 - May 3-4 days coupled with a trip to Uni. Since it's a short trip and short notice (probably won't decide until March) We'll probably end up with a Studio at OKW or SSR or another high capacity resort. Not too points intensive. However, depending on our friends' plans, we may just skip this and do it all in October, or maybe a quick weekend for my birthday in April, but we probably will do something in May since DH wants to do SWW again.

Oct 2012 - Food and Wine Festival. Highly dependent on my friends' plans. I'm going to book us a studio at BLT in case our friends all fall through, but there are 2 other possibilities 1 is that we don't use points at all for this and stay at SoG with military friends, the other is that we book a 2BR for our friends to all stay together. Lot of variables.

Early 2013- Maybe Feb - 3-4 days at The Grand Californian.

Since the May and October trips are so highly variable, I'm not sure what points we'll have left, or where we'll want to go. Our favorite times are Early Dec and F&W and we'll have done that already. I already decided I don't want to do December again any time soon- too close to Christmas. it's just too darn busy.

We have enough points where we can either do about 2 weeks in a less expensive studio, or we can do a week at an expensive studio and have some left over, or go for a 1 BR. I think this will probably suit us for awhile, since having a 1BR will probably be fine until we have kids who are older, or have more than 2 kids. I guess we could have gotten away with fewer points for right now, but I like the flexibility to go to DLR. Also, right now we usually waste more frequent flier miles/trips than we use, and having APs and extra points, we can take more than 1 trip per year. Right now we have 3 free trips (for one of us each time) coming to us. We have a companion airfare with Delta that expires at the end of 2012. We have enough Delta skymiles for a RT to FL I thnk, and I have a free flight on JetBlue that will expire toward the end of October, so, that takes the bite out of the more expensive flight to CA.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Yeah. It's hard to predict. Initially I was thinking 100, but I think 160 is good. As it is right now, we're planning:

May 2012 - May 3-4 days coupled with a trip to Uni. Since it's a short trip and short notice (probably won't decide until March) We'll probably end up with a Studio at OKW or SSR or another high capacity resort. Not too points intensive. However, depending on our friends' plans, we may just skip this and do it all in October, or maybe a quick weekend for my birthday in April, but we probably will do something in May since DH wants to do SWW again.

Oct 2012 - Food and Wine Festival. Highly dependent on my friends' plans. I'm going to book us a studio at BLT in case our friends all fall through, but there are 2 other possibilities 1 is that we don't use points at all for this and stay at SoG with military friends, the other is that we book a 2BR for our friends to all stay together. Lot of variables.

Early 2013- Maybe Feb - 3-4 days at The Grand Californian.

Since the May and October trips are so highly variable, I'm not sure what points we'll have left, or where we'll want to go. Our favorite times are Early Dec and F&W and we'll have done that already. I already decided I don't want to do December again any time soon- too close to Christmas. it's just too darn busy.

We have enough points where we can either do about 2 weeks in a less expensive studio, or we can do a week at an expensive studio and have some left over, or go for a 1 BR. I think this will probably suit us for awhile, since having a 1BR will probably be fine until we have kids who are older, or have more than 2 kids. I guess we could have gotten away with fewer points for right now, but I like the flexibility to go to DLR. Also, right now we usually waste more frequent flier miles/trips than we use, and having APs and extra points, we can take more than 1 trip per year. Right now we have 3 free trips (for one of us each time) coming to us. We have a companion airfare with Delta that expires at the end of 2012. We have enough Delta skymiles for a RT to FL I thnk, and I have a free flight on JetBlue that will expire toward the end of October, so, that takes the bite out of the more expensive flight to CA.

Your plans sound so up in the air, that I'm starting to agree that maybe you should buy cheaper points. BLT is expensive for the points, especially compared with SSR or AKV, since the expiration date is only a few years difference. You won't make up any difference with time. Plus the Dues are not much higher for SSR. It seems as though $140 per point is very high, when you can get 160 points resale for around the same ballpark as 100 direct. Again, just my 2 cents as everyone is different. If my wife wasn't insistant on BLT, we would already own SSR But I'm waiting for the right contract to come along with BLT.

 

[taaren]

1) What is the typical average amount of points people have? When they first buy? Down the road?

There's several threads on the DIS about this that Lisareniff was kind enough to start. Here's the How many points do you own?, How many resale points, and How many direct points do you own? threads to give you an idea.

2) I have seen a LOT of threads about adding on. it seems most people have added on. Why is this? Do people typically add on and in what timeframe?

As a PP said, there are many reasons people add on, mainly the addiction factor. Our excuse was that when I went into the initial presentation we wanted 260 points to vacation the way we wanted to (we wanted to do 6 nights in Choice season alternating each year between 1 and 2 bedrooms, it averaged out to 260 points). But, we only had enough cash for 200 so I couldn't conscience financing (a personal policy, no judgement). A year later we were given a generous wedding present and used part of it towards a 75 point add-on so we could have the amount we had originally wanted.

However, if they ever build DLH Villas we will add on there again for 2 reasons, both having to do with the heroin (I mean pixie dust) aforementioned: A) we would like to do an occasional weekend here and there when we live in Cali, and B) we now prefer 2 bedrooms every trip because its so much fun to have a crew of friends along, instead of 2 bedrooms every other trip and a 1 bedroom with just us. The prices/deals will determine whether we'll wait for resale or buy as founding members direct.

3) I've seen people mention in threads something like "I have 300 points at OKW, but I just added 50 points at BLT". What would be the benefit of having such a low number of points at another resort? Is it mainly for split stays? Or do people like to book the hottest days they need at 11mos, and add the rest at 7mos. I'm pretty sure from what I've read you could ONLY use those 50 points at the 11mos mark, and not any of the OKW points to book BLT at 11mos, you'd have to wait until 7 mos to apply OKW points to BLT. Is it something where you would book it at 11 months with this year's AND next year's points at BLT and then at 7 months, you can apply OKW points to it and get those BLT points for next year back? Or is it just to use 100 points at BLT every 2 years? I'm still waiting for my packet to be mailed to me, but I have a feeling this isn't explained clearly.
5) I'm planning to purchase Direct for the initial buy, just in case they add any other restrictions, etc. Is there any detriment at all for buying add-on points at resale? You'd still be considered a direct member, right? It would just mean that the add on points could not be used at some of the outside vendors, but the original points would still be original, right? And I could combine the old and new points in one ressie, right? So let's say I add BWV points to my BLT points, I could still combine both to get a Treehouse at the 7 month mark, right?

Yep the direct points would be direct points and the resale points would be restricted. You could combine them at 7 months if you could get availability at another resort. I've seen a lot of people say that for their "main trip" they need to stay in their resort of choice, then for other trips they're okay with whatever they can get. Some people can only plan one trip 11 months out but may be able to snag a weekend or two wherever at the last minute. Others plan one trip around a DVC-low-availability time of year and another around a pretty easy to get time. A lot of people bought direct at wherever was being sold the first time, then added on cheaply the second time around.

4) I could see us staying at almost any of the resorts at least once, but I think I really like the BWV and BCV (really, who can resist SAB). Is there a downside to buying these since they are a shorter contract. 40 years or 48 years, it all seems like forever to me. I haven't even been alive 40 years.

If you average out the price you are getting slightly less "value" for point because they are shorter contracts ... but if its where you want to stay then that's value added, right? I can't resist SAB and I haven't even seen it yet, the pics just look gorgeous and being so close to Epcot? Heaven. Fortunately DH can and has put his foot down that we will not add-on on the East Coast, only close to home.

 

[DopeysGal82]

Our plans are mainly up in the air because we're hoping to travel with friends for the first time this year, and not knowing what they are doing exactly is throwing a wrench. If our friends are NOT coming, and it's up to us, then we'll be a few days for SWW and then a week or a week plus a few days at BLT in October. Actually, I'm going to TRY to get one of the Epcot resorts, but understand that's rough. We're also definitely on the trip to DLR, but I want to look into the refurb schedule more and then compare it to my work blackout dates and the points charts.

My DH is absolutely 100% against resale. I posted about this on the other thread. If it were up to me, I'd be looking into a resale and considering BLT as well as BWV, but DH is totally against it, he really wants to do things this way, and so many times he goes along with what I want, I'm not going to keep arguing with him, especially since what he's trying to do is take me on dozens of high-end vacations. I don't know if I'm making it sound like DH is being nasty or something. he said multiple times if I want to cancel, we can cancel, but he's really not enthused about the alternatives. From just this week I see that I can talk up resales until I'm blue in the face, and he's never going to agree with me. I could put my foot down too and say it's resale or nothing, too, I guess.

I guess it's like buying a car. You can save a lot buying a used car, but your financing options aren't as good. Buying a new car you pay a lot more and it loses thousands of dollars in value the minute you drive it off the lot, but you get that new car smell and warm fuzzy feeling.


Please don't judge me for buying expensive points direct! I feel like people put that down a lot. I know I'm spending more money, but it gives DH peace of mind, and I feel that, too to an extent. I know you're trying to help though and I appreciate it!

I have my mind made up though that any add ons down the line WILL be resale. 160 points is enough to trade for offsite things should we want to trade.

 

[etemplet]

Thanks! That clears it all up!

DH is like a man on a mission. I suggested we try to find a 100 point $100 resale for BLT, which would be less than half of what we're paying for 160 direct. If we waited a few months we could save enough to buy it in cash, rather than financing it. But he's SO determined to stick with our contract and buy direct. My stubborn DH! It's also emotional. We finally got done with paying for the wedding, he has a great job now and we struggled for so long, I think it gives him a good feeling to plunk down the cash direct, and to know we're locked in for years of vacations.

I like da way your DH thinks !! I know you guys will enjoy it for years to come !!

 

[Lynne M]

5) I'm planning to purchase Direct for the initial buy, just in case they add any other restrictions, etc.

I know you've made the decision to buy direct, and I'm not trying to debate, or talk you out of the decision. I just want to clear up the misconception that buying direct somehow protects you from any changes or restrictions that Disney might add in the future. It absolutely does not. This time, they chose to take the ability to book DCL, ABD, Disney Collection from resale buyers. They could have just as easily taken it from direct buyers as well, with the stroke of a pen.

You've bought the right to stay at your home resort, subject to availability, for the duration of the contract. Everything else is subject to change. Everything. The use of points for DCL, RCI, Disney Collections, all of the discounts, is not part of your vacation ownership, and it states that clearly in the documents you've received.

Perks come and go. Discounts come and go. Fees get added. The collection of resorts in the Concierge Collection changes. Many of the exchange options are with third party companies, that DVC doesn't have any control over. They could change their offerings, or pull out of the program altogether.

I just didn't want you to think that buying direct guaranteed that everything DVC offers now will be available until the end of your contract. It guarantees what's in the contract you sign with DVC. The things that aren't covered in the contract can change or go away, whether you buy direct or resale.

 

[Sandisw]

I know you've made the decision to buy direct, and I'm not trying to debate, or talk you out of the decision. I just want to clear up the misconception that buying direct somehow protects you from any changes or restrictions that Disney might add in the future. It absolutely does not. This time, they chose to take the ability to book DCL, ABD, Disney Collection from resale buyers. They could have just as easily taken it from direct buyers as well, with the stroke of a pen.

You've bought the right to stay at your home resort, subject to availability, for the duration of the contract. Everything else is subject to change. Everything. The use of points for DCL, RCI, Disney Collections, all of the discounts, is not part of your vacation ownership, and it states that clearly in the documents you've received.

Perks come and go. Discounts come and go. Fees get added. The collection of resorts in the Concierge Collection changes. Many of the exchange options are with third party companies, that DVC doesn't have any control over. They could change their offerings, or pull out of the program altogether.

I just didn't want you to think that buying direct guaranteed that everything DVC offers now will be available until the end of your contract. It guarantees what's in the contract you sign with DVC. The things that aren't covered in the contract can change or go away, whether you buy direct or resale.

Great advice..exactly what I was going to post as well. OP, buy DVC to stay DVC since, as mentioned, all else is extra.

 

[Disneycouple99]

Just a thought, Disney is coming out with a point reallocation in mid January. You might want to hold off a bit to see how many points you need for your future trips. Also you shoud add a 10% buffer for further point reallocation.

 

[G'sMaman]

Welcome home! I know that you have lots of people trying to talk you out of your contract, but I have another question. Are you sure you need 160 points right now? How about starting out with 100 points from BLT (if they'll let you) or BWV? You can always add on later. We joke that we actually started with our "add on" first because our first choice (VGC) had such a long waiting list for buying direct and we couldn't find a resale for VGC that worked for us. So we ended up buying 100 BCV points (BWV points were also available) at $115 per point direct from Disney. Even though it's a "sold out" resort, you can still buy direct from Disney and they didn't require an initial 160 point buy-in. You would still save quite a bit of money and you can even use the Disney credit card to get 6 months of free financing if that helps. Once you decide DVC is for you (and I'm sure you will!) then you can buy a larger contract from the resale market. Your husband gets what he wants (buying direct from Disney initially) and you will get more points that cost less.

 

[DopeysGal82]

That's not a bad idea. I have to really crunch the numbers with the points.

I wonder how hard it would be to re-draw the paperwork for 100 points. The other issue is I think below 160, it's $150 a point, not 140, so there is as little loss there.

I'm not sure I can talk my DH out of 160 points. It's an aspirational thing, I think. I will mention it. When I was trying to convince him to buy resale, I was talking about a 100 pt contract. The only issue is that 100 points doesn't get us the room we'd want at our home resort, AND we have 2 tentative trips in 2012, plus a DLR in 2013, so we'd be using the 160 in that case, though we could always borrow.

 

[DopeysGal82]

One thing no one mentioned to me..and surprisingly, I have not gotten my paperwork yet, is the fact that like you said, staying at any resort other than home is not guaranteed.

I understand they only have to abide by what's in the contract, but that would REALLY stink. however, that's more of a reason for me to buy in at BLT, since it does have the great location, etc and provided this is still allowed, I might be able to "trade" ressies with another member to go somewhere else and BLT will hopefully be desirable. I think if they stopped allowing you to book other resorts, barring any other changes, then there'd be a market where I'd essentially "trade" with someone who has the resort I want to stay at who wants to stay at BLT. It would be super complicated.

 

[G'sMaman]

That's not a bad idea. I have to really crunch the numbers with the points.

I wonder how hard it would be to re-draw the paperwork for 100 points. The other issue is I think below 160, it's $150 a point, not 140, so there is as little loss there.

I'm not sure I can talk my DH out of 160 points. It's an aspirational thing, I think. I will mention it. When I was trying to convince him to buy resale, I was talking about a 100 pt contract. The only issue is that 100 points doesn't get us the room we'd want at our home resort, AND we have 2 tentative trips in 2012, plus a DLR in 2013, so we'd be using the 160 in that case, though we could always borrow.

It won't be hard to redraw the paperwork - not if they want to make the sale. There was a typo with my dh's name so they had to send us a completely new packet and it was not a big deal at all. As for pricing, i think you're okay because the discount starts at 100 points: http://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/pricing-a-promotions

Remember - you can always add more points later and in the meantime there's nothing wrong at all with borrowing. In fact, you may decide you want points at another resort so having 2 separate contracts with fewer points may work out better in the long run. We own at 3 dvc resorts and love the flexibility - just make sure they're the same use year. Good luck with dh!