A BIG gap between verbal and math SAT scores (college acceptance related)

[luvflorida]

Does anyone else have a teen that has a large gap between his/her verbal and math SAT scores? Or a teen that is extremely right or left brained?

Our youngest daughter is 17 and a high school senior. Math has always been her academic weakness. She's managed to maintain a B average in math, but always scores below average on standardized math tests. However, in language arts, she consistently scores in the top 97-98th percentile on standardized tests. Her SAT scores in verbal and writing were well above average. Her SAT scores in math were below average. So, if colleges are looking at her combined SAT scores, it looks like she is average in both. That's good for math, but not so good for verbal.

She is extremely right brained and is very talented in drawing, writing, and anything to do with music, acting, and dance. She excels in the visual and performing arts and is looking at colleges with good dance programs. She wants to earn a BFA in dance performance/choreography.

She hates math (I can relate because I didn't like it either and was never good at it) but she HAS to get through it. She's struggling through second semester Algebra II, even with being tutored two hours a week by a math college professor. My main concern is that a bad grade in math is going to wreck her grade point average.

There are so many high school seniors applying for college that have stellar grades and SAT scores in ALL areas, it makes me wonder how difficult it is for a student that is below average in any area to be accepted.

Anyone else have a teen with a large gap in SAT scores? How do colleges deal with the discrepancy? Did it hurt, or do you think it will hurt, his/her chances of being accepted to college?

edited- clarifying combined SAT scores

 

[rigs32]

1) Each college has a different way of evaluating applicants' files. Some are more mechanical than others. It depends on the type of school and what they are looking for from their applicants.

2) Whether it will affect your DD is dependant on what schools she ultimately applies to. Even if they have a great dance program, will the dance department have a say in whether she's accepted to the school? Will she need to get over the general hurdles before being able to apply to be a dance major? What is the academic level of the incoming students at the school in general? For the dance department within the school?

I know you're looking for reassurance, but there is no clear-cut answer. Have your daughter (not you, though you can prep her before the meetings) ask some questions about admission standards when she speaks to or meets with dance dept reps and admissions personnel at the schools she's interested in.

 

[Buckalew11]

I have no idea how my niece scored on her SATs but she was probably a B-/C+ math student who had to work very hard for her grades. She started Algebra in middle school and ended up with pre-cal or calculus by her senior year though so I am not sure about how that works compared to AlgebraII as a senior. Anyway, her verbal scores were very high compared to the math scores and I think my sister worried about her. She didn't have any problems though. She did do 'early decison' and I am sure that helped her out. She's at Gettysburg in PA.

 

[luvflorida]

She started Algebra in middle school and ended up with pre-cal or calculus by her senior year though so I am not sure about how that works compared to AlgebraII as a senior.

Well, for comparison, most students complete Algebra II as a sophomore or junior. My daughter is never going to reach pre-cal or calculus.

That's not to say she isn't bright. She is. Just not when it comes to math skills.

 

[Buckalew11]

Hey, I can totally relate. I have a math phobia that I am trying not to pass on to my own. I was just saying that DN struggled with math also but I was not sure what they look for when they are looking at these kids (like maybe all the math that DN took may have helped even though she clearly struggled with it--esp. compared to her other classes.

Down here they now have to have 4 years of math in HS. I would have died!

 

[Jill in Chicago]

It all depends on the college. At the University of Il the competition is very stiff for just about every single major. You have to have a high SAT score to "make the cut."

Other colleges will be much different. Be sure to look at smaller universities and at private universities. Though their tuitions may be higher, often this is compensated by scholarships. Also look out of state. Often state schools want a certain number of out of state students to round out the student population. Again, the out of state college will often compensate with scholarships to bring down the cost.

We, as parents and students, often worry too much about the known or perceived reputation of the college. You need to personally go to the college university. Walk around. Meet the staff. How does your student like the place?

The university I went to didn't even have a public relations major when I applied. (And that's what I wanted to major in.) They did have a great communications department though and that sold me. It was an out of state school, and I received outstanding scholarships all four years. My SATs were also low due to a lack of math skills. (I only had to take one math course. Yahooey!)

Don't let the SATs worry you, or the class rank. There is a college/university that is the perfect fit for everyone.

 

[Nikel]

Like a pp said, it's gonna vary by school. My dh and I went to a state school. His overall ACT score (he didn't take the SAT) was average and met the schools requirements for admission. His math subscore was low though, but he just had to take and pass with a c or better a remedial math course before going on the the math courses required for his major. A more elite school would probably be more strict on the scores.

 

[withay]

Not to get on my soapbox (haha)...but, I am actually doing my undergraduate thesis on retention in college. I have done five mini-projects, all of which gave me some pretty mind boggling results. Anyway, schools come up with an "equation," by which every applicant gets a score. Schools vary in how much weight they give variables like HS GPA, SAT, involvement, etc.

Long story short, my research shows how un-predictive SAT scores are of college success (and by success I mean retention and graduation). Many schools are gradually decreasing the emphasis placed on SAT scores. And to my knowledge, college admission offices take whole SAT scores into account.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

[Camicar]

I had a disparity between my verbal and math SATs and had no trouble getting into any 2nd tier school to which I applied. Including a heavily sci/tech school which gave me a big scholarship. Go figure. Note: did not choose that school because in the end, I didn't think that school was the best fit for me.

There is a college to fit every student. The key, IMO, is for a student or his/her parents not to get set on this one perfect school before they know if they are admitted to it. Many a student who ends up going to a great school is hampered by feelings of doubt and anger bec this great school is not the ones they (or most often, their parents) had decided was the 'only' school for them. In college decisions, as in life, options and Plan Bs are an excellent idea.

 

[princesspiglet]

Like others have said, it all depends on the college she applies to. I went to a primarly performing arts college in Pittsburgh, Point Park University. My SAT scores were atrocious- I got a total of 1000. My grades weren't much better. But I exceled in singing, acting and dancing so I majored in Musical Theatre and later added on communications. I had to audition to get into Point Park and they acepted me based on that. I don't even think they looked at my high school records! Same thing with my best friend. She is as dumb as a box of rocks (and she will admit it) but she can dance her **** off. She also got into Point Park and is now a very prominent dance teacher in the Pittsburgh area.

 

[luvflorida]

Like others have said, it all depends on the college she applies to. I went to a primarly performing arts college in Pittsburgh, Point Park University. My SAT scores were atrocious- I got a total of 1000. My grades weren't much better. But I exceled in singing, acting and dancing so I majored in Musical Theatre and later added on communications. I had to audition to get into Point Park and they acepted me based on that. I don't even think they looked at my high school records! Same thing with my best friend. She is as dumb as a box of rocks (and she will admit it) but she can dance her **** off. She also got into Point Park and is now a very prominent dance teacher in the Pittsburgh area.

Point Park University is one that I want my daughter to look at. I know they have an excellent dance program. She really wants to get into the dance program at the University of Arizona. We've visited there twice, and she auditioned for the dance program last month.

 

[Uuaww]

I was the stereotype for this except opposite. I scored a 740 in math and a 410 in english (out of 800). I also had strong SAT II in Biology which helped me at my school choices. I was a 3.83 student and got into such schools as Cal Poly, UCLA, UC Davis, and Northern Illinois. Consequently, I was denied by 2 schools, UC San Diego and Illinois. College admissions are always very tough, if you have any questions, I can answer them best I can, but I know what she is going through.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I'm not sure how colleges will actually treat it.

I would do everything possible to encourage the college to look at the scores separately though. For instance, if your daughter hasn't had her letters of recommendation written yet (assuming she needs them? I don't know if all schools require them?), she might want to ask her letter writers to mention the discrepancy in her letters. Her English teacher could specifically emphasize the high score on the verbal part of the SAT which might make it more likely that the application evaluators will notice it.

 

[missypie]

Be sure to look at Oklahoma City University for dance. Their 50th percentile is 550-640 in CR and 520-640 in Math.

My son sounds just like your daughter. He's doing SAT prep now and on practice tests, he'll range between 720-800 on CR and between 540-620 on Math. Think how wild it would look for him to get an 800 on CR and a 540 on Math...but, of course, that would depect him how he is: EXTREMELY verbal, and quite math challenged. There will be some school out there somewhere that will want him for what he is.

If you want a super-selective school (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford), you have to be perfect at everything. There are lots of valedictorians and kids with perfect SATs that get turned down by these schools.

But then there's everybody else.

 

[Camicar]

She really wants to get into the dance program

Again, I would strongly urge her not to get her heart set on one program. Also in the case of dance it is highly competitive to find a paying job in that field and it would be wise to urge her to think about what else she can/wants to do other than appear on stage. Options, options, options...

A friend of mine has a dd who graduated from a prestigious dance program and has not been able to find a job that lasts more than a few weeks here and there. She is now returning to school to become a sports physical therapist and really wishes she had done at least some of that coursework before she graduated from college and acquired all of these student loans.

Life does not always work out the way we desire.

 

[missypie]

Again, I would strongly urge her not to get her heart set on one program. Also in the case of dance it is highly competitive to find a paying job in that field and it would be wise to urge her to think about what else she can/wants to do other than appear on stage. Options, options, options...

A friend of mine has a dd who graduated from a prestigious dance program and has not been able to find a job that lasts more than a few weeks here and there. She is now returning to school to become a sports physical therapist and really wishes she had done at least some of that coursework before she graduated from college and acquired all of these student loans.

Life does not always work out the way we desire.

That's why I suggested Oklahoma City University. In addition to perfance degrees (you can even get a degree in Jazz and in Tap!), they offer a Dance Management degree, which would give the student some business classes.

 

[ZPT1022]

My kids aren't old enough yet, but I was that kid. I had a near perfect verbal score and something in the 70th percentile for math. My total was in the 1200's. I got TONS of recruitment stuff for college. Not Harvard or anything, but I had options. Like other people have said, look for the college that suits your DD and you should be successful finding something. Good luck!

 

[luvflorida]

Again, I would strongly urge her not to get her heart set on one program. Also in the case of dance it is highly competitive to find a paying job in that field and it would be wise to urge her to think about what else she can/wants to do other than appear on stage. Options, options, options...

Dance IS what she wants to do, and it is her passion. There are a lot of options for a career in dance, and being on stage is just a small part of it.

But, I agree with what you're saying. It isn't easy to make a decent living in the visual and performing arts.

She's also applying to several other colleges, one of which specializes in the arts. The University of Arizona is her first choice, and the dance program is very difficult to get into. It's hard, because we don't want to discourage her, yet we want to be realistic at the same time. It's a fine line to walk.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I graduated in 1995. I took the SAT about 4 times, and even took a verbal prep class and could never break that 500 average! My score was a 1220- 490 in Verbal and 730 in Math. I think the combined score is looked at more, so while my verbal score definitely brought my overall score down, it was still in a decent range overall. My GPA was mediocre (due to my own laziness) but I was in all honors and AP classes. I didn't have any problems getting into any schools, while some of my "average" friends with better GPA's weren't getting into the same schools. I know there are a multitude of other things the schools are looking at though- but I didn't have any sports or extracurricular activities going for me either.

 

[Kathi OD]

FWIW...DD struggled to maintain a B average in high school. Math was her downfall. However, she was very active in her school and in the community. Her SATs were horrible (at the time 1600 was tops and her best was 860, which she needed to clear the NCAA). We specifically looked at schools that looked for the kind of student she was (average, motivated, involved), yet had good academics. She applied to 8 schools and was accepted at 7. She was also offered admission (you couldn't apply) to a special program at Fairleigh Dickinson that targeted students who were average academically in high school, but who showed promise through their hard work, other activities and the recommendations of teachers. After spending 2 years at Western Maryland (now William McDaniel), she transferred to Temple and graduated with honors.

Depending on what major your child chooses, it is not always necessary to go to the school with the most competition for admission in order to get the best education. With the exception of a few select areas, most employers just want to know that the prospective employee has a degree, not necessarily where it came from.