40 years ago today . . . 4 dead in Ohio

[Deb in IA]

"Ohio" by Neil Young


Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

 

[minniecarousel]

I remember that picture so vividly - like it happened yesterday.

 

[BunsenH]

A low point in our history for sure. Let's hope that we've learned something since then.

 

[Deb in IA]

I know, minnie. Hard to believe it has been 40 years.

Some sobering facts:

Of the 4 students killed by the Ohio National Guard, only 2 (Jeffery Miller and Alison Krause) were at the anti-war protest.

The other 2 students, Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder, were walking from one class to the next when they were fatally shot.

William Schroeder was also a member of the campus ROTC.

Of those killed, their average distance from the Guards was 345 feet. Jeffery Miller was the closest, at 265 feet. (This makes it harder to accept the argument that the Guard opened fire because they feared for their lives.)

 

[FireDancer]

It is unfortunate that anyone had to die in Kent but it is often forgotten that the National Guard was only there because of rioting which included arson, breaking bank windows, and starting fires in the streets. The ROTC building was already on fire when the National guard arrived.

Protesting and assembly are acceptable forms of civil disobedience, arson and rioting are not.

There were a lot of bad calls by the National Guard that weekend but it is revisionist to say they were just sitting there firing into a peaceful crowd. Had no one rioted no one would have been there to fire into a crowd. It doesn't mean anyone deserved to die, they didn't, but the students have to accept some of the blame just as the guard does.

Luckily we have learned how to protest like big boys and girls since then. For the most part at least.

 

[Deb in IA]

There were a lot of bad calls by the National Guard that weekend but it is revisionist to say they were just sitting there firing into a peaceful crowd.

How are you going to put blame on the 2 that were walking to class?????

 

[FireDancer]

How are you going to put blame on the 2 that were walking to class?????

I'm not blaming them I'm saying that the students who were rioting should share some of the blame along with the National Guardsmen. Those two were collateral damage in a situation that should have never even started.

 

[swanmom]

I was there. It was my freshman year. None of you know who was in that crowd that day. Neither did they. There was no reason for the National Guard to be armed with live ammunition for crowd control. Period. End of Story. Rest in Peace ... Allison, Jeff, Bill and Sandy.

 

[Deb in IA]

I was there. It was my freshman year. None of you know who was in that crowd that day. Neither did they. There was no reason for the National Guard to be armed with live ammunition for crowd control. Period. End of Story. Rest in Peace ... Allison, Jeff, Bill and Sandy.

I'm sure this day is very emotional for you, swanmom . . .
Thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

[LindaR]

And MY father was a Guardsman who had been called to be there for riot control.

People need to realize that there are TWO sides to every story, maybe not just what is sensational AND that lots of the "men" in the NG are barely more than boys, themselves......not necessarily a bunch of forty year old men.

We hand our kids guns and expect them to not make mistakes or be scared? Those students were threatening.......throwing rocks, firebombs,etc!

EVERYONE made mistakes that day. The people who fired weapons and the students who violently rioted..........

I know people are gonna have a hissy over this, but there are always two sides to every story.

 

[LindaR]

I'm so sorry that people lost their lives. I am also sorry that the students rioted so violently that the Guard HAD to be called!

 

[okeydokey]

I can't see that there is any reason to fire into an unarmed crowd.

 

[LindaR]

They were "unarmed" meaning that they did not have guns, but they certainly DID have deadly weapons. Rocks, bricks, firebombs, etc. The rioters were NOT throwing spitballs at the Guard.

 

[FireDancer]

I can't see that there is any reason to fire into an unarmed crowd.

Yes, that was an error in judgment and people should be held accountable for those errors. I also see no reason to burn down a government building (ROTC), start fires in the streets, destroy the storefronts of local businesses, or throw bricks at people and bottles at the police.

The guardsmen also attempted to use tear gas to disperse the crowd but not only did they not leave, they threw it back at them.

Kent was the stupid decision capital of the country that weekend and it wasn't only the guards that made those decision.

No National Guard soldiers, armed with live ammo or not, would have been in Kent had there not been a need to send them there and that need came from rioters. Don't get me wrong, they made a bad error that cost American lives, but it seems everyone always forgets everything else that was going on that weekend and leading up to the event.

ETA: I also believe, and this is only from memory, that many guardsmen had just finished hours on duty trying to stop idiots from firing on trucks on the road because of an ongoing strike. Mental fatigue could have also contributed and the people who were dumb enough to fire on trucks on the road then also share some of the blame. It was a disaster all the way around.

 

[Kitty 34]

Wow, I was just discussing the shooting of those Kent State students to an 8th grade History class today. Sadly and ironically, I didn't even realize this was the anniversary of that terrible happening.

 

[WhateverLolaWants]

As a Kent alumni, I have read and heard my fair share of firsthand accounts of May 4th and the days leading up to the shootings. I cannot wrap my head around the actions of the National Guard. If anyone is interested, the Kent Stater is online and has a lot of great articles on the shootings - kentwired.com.

On a random but related note, I did the Disney College Program a few years back and my name badge stated my school. While ringing up a guest - an elderly gentleman - he looked at me, then my badge, and then looked at me again and said "I haven't trusted anyone from Kent State since the war." So many people of my generation have no idea about May 4th, but it obviously has such a lingering effect on older generations.

 

[Shutterbug]

They were "unarmed" meaning that they did not have guns, but they certainly DID have deadly weapons. Rocks, bricks, firebombs, etc. The rioters were NOT throwing spitballs at the Guard.

You are quite correct:

http://www.ohio.com/

 

[Shutterbug]

It is unfortunate that anyone had to die in Kent but it is often forgotten that the National Guard was only there because of rioting which included arson, breaking bank windows, and starting fires in the streets. The ROTC building was already on fire when the National guard arrived.

I agree that side of the story never seems to be told.

Did those that died deserve it..no

Its very sad all around.

 

[N.Bailey]

As a Kent alumni, I have read and heard my fair share of firsthand accounts of May 4th and the days leading up to the shootings. I cannot wrap my head around the actions of the National Guard. If anyone is interested, the Kent Stater is online and has a lot of great articles on the shootings - kentwired.com.

On a random but related note, I did the Disney College Program a few years back and my name badge stated my school. While ringing up a guest - an elderly gentleman - he looked at me, then my badge, and then looked at me again and said "I haven't trusted anyone from Kent State since the war." So many people of my generation have no idea about May 4th, but it obviously has such a lingering effect on older generations.

A terrible tragedy all around. There is no question about that, but I bet your firsthand accounts were all one sided.

I cannot wrap my head around anything thinking there won't be tragedies whenever you have a violent situation.

I get so angry when I turn on the news and hear how they're going after our men in the military because they made a bad call in an impossible situation. You want to send our men/women in uniform in to police a violent situation, don't tie their hands while you're asking them to put their life on the line.

Yes, it's sad that some young students lost their lives. If the students remained peaceful, no one would have lost their life. Blame them (those involved in the violence, not necessarily those that died)!

 

[Poppinsme]

I remember this well. No reason what so ever the guard needed to fire live ammo. None.