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[lost*in*cyberspace]

Sounds like a good plan to me, as long as you have someone who can check in on him. Why should he be rewarded for bad behavior? He probably doesn't want to go anyway.

 

[FromKansas]

Now I don't have any teenagers -yet- but I wouldn't take him. This is definitely a privilege. And mother in law, smother in law. He's got to know you're serious.

 

[Magic Band Defender]

Who would stay with him? He doesn't sound trustworthy enough to leave home alone, that would be my only concern.

 

[mom2AidanAndEli]

Did he know this was a possibility? In other words, did you say, "You've got 3 months to get your act together or we're going without you?" Or whatever the time period was? If so, then definitely go ahead and have fun and don't worry about leaving him behind. He made the decision and needs to suffer the consequences for his actions. If you just booked it out of the blue without giving him warning, I might debate it. But it seems that it's been such a long-standing issue that probably nothing would have changed anyway!

But I agree--he will definitely need close supervision while he's at home! And it doesn't sound like the mother-in-law is the one to do that! It will be all about her trying to make up for the horrible thing you've done to him!

And, no, you are not being a horrible parent. You're being a parent. Period. Sometimes it feels horrible, but you're taking the responsible path.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Now I don't have any teenagers -yet- but I wouldn't take him. This is definitely a privilege. And mother in law, smother in law. He's got to know you're serious.

Wow, you sound bitter (MIL comment). Some MILs are fantastic (including me!)

 

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[Dawnlight]

Who would stay with him? He doesn't sound trustworthy enough to leave home alone, that would be my only concern.

This would be my concern, too.

As a mother of 3 teens (and 3 tweens), I can say that I understand not wanting to reward a misbehaving child with a family vacation, especially if it might spoil it for everyone else, but I would be very hesitant to leave an unruly teen home alone. If there were a grandparent or other family member to stay with him and keep him in check, then I'd do that.

I was a "good" kid and my mom traveled occasionally for work. I made some poor choices during those times I was left alone. I think it's all the more possible for poor decisions to be made by someone who has already proved irresponsible.

 

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[FromKansas]

Wow, you sound bitter (MIL comment). Some MILs are fantastic (including me!)

Not bitter. I actually love my mother in law. But I do understand the judgement that you can get from others on parenting decisions.

 

[SEA333]

So, I have a teen, and two tweens, and I'm not following how not being allowed to go on a family vacation (punishment) has to do with bad grades, bad attitude, and laziness (crime). Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime and make sense so as to change the behavior?

So, in this case, the behaviors that need to be changed are habits that have been allowed to happen for 8 years. Since he was...9? The very beginning age of tween-hood? A VERY parent-controllable age, and kids at 9 (my youngest's age right now) are still very much willing to model good behavior and eagerly accept rewards to modify their behavior. What has happened in the past 8 years as far as discipline? This seems like a FAMILY problem, not a single-kid problem.

My oldest is trying...god knows we have had some crazy fights and sometimes it takes all I have to not scream at him, or just walk away and give up. And, when he being his difficult, nothing-is-good-enough self I think that the last thing I want to do is spend MY time and money to take him somewhere awesome. So I get it...I really do.

BUT....I also take personal responsibility for his behavior (after all, I raised him), his attitude and personality (much like me, he is!), and remember that as much as he is killing me sometimes, the last thing he needs to is to feel alienated from our family. I have no problem taking away Beats or phones or x-boxes, or making him do extra chores or being grounded from his friends, but home and family are always going to be the places where he is going to be loved and welcomed.

I'm not one to excuse bad behavior and I *am* one for owning and taking responsibility, so I am not by any means saying that your son should not be disciplined for not helping or being lazy, but it sounds like somewhere along the line the discipline (root word of discipline means "to teach or guide") was dropped along the way. At 17, I completely agree that he should be taking more responsibility for his own actions, but I am not sure that being excluded from a family vacation is the right way to teach or guide him in the direction you want him to go.

When DS is at his worst, and a 15 year old boy can be pretty bad, I try (if I remember in the midst of being so angry at him!) to take a step back and figure out what is behind his attitude or negativity. My DS doesn't handle change or stress very well, and it mostly comes out in the form of being nasty and snarky at me. If it starts happening for no real reason (meaning: nothing I did or said should have egged him on, or it comes out of the blue) I ask him what is going on. 9 times out of 10, there is something that is bothering him. He still isn't allowed to be a jerk to me no matter what, but if I know (or he knows) what is causing the attitude, we can work through it. Sometimes (like once a week or two) when I see him in his room alone, I will go in and lay down on his bed and just listen. He talks about everything he wants to, and I stay quiet so I can read between the lines to help me understand him better.

Chores - my DS hates doing chores too, and complains and cries about it, but we have established some chores that he and he alone is responsible for at all times, so when the garbage is full, for instance, he automatically knows that he is the one to take it out. It cuts down on the hostility I get when I have to keep telling him over and over again. And the benefit of taking it out outweighs the crap he has to go through if he just ignores it....we pile it up really high and then might (lol) go as far as throwing really gross stuff like cold bacon grease or last night's roasted chicken carcass right on top so he has to actually TOUCH it (ewww!!! yes, I love to torture my kids.... And if that doesn't work, the garbage can goes right into DS's bedroom as a reminder that it didn't get taken out. Only had to do that once....LOL

I understand that your DS is a few years closer to adulthood and it becomes a little different at that age, but he is still your "child", so you still get to make the rules! I don't know what the answer is for your situation because everyone is so different, but something tells me that excluding him won't help...he needs a different kind of discipline (teaching or guidance) and it will take hard work trying to figure it out.


In the meantime, the bigger issue is getting his grades up so he can graduate! I'm not sure by your post if he is a Junior or a Senior (if he is a senior, you will have to act immediately!), but I would start by contacting his school counselor and meeting with your son and the counselor to come up with a plan on how this is going to play out.

And as far as your MIL....she really doesn't have a say in this, so don't worry about it....

Good luck OP...these decisions are not easy!

 

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[FromKansas]

Don't let people tell you it's your parenting. Those who do have never had to deal with this type of child. I watched and still watch my mother struggle with my brother. And it was not for lack of good parenting. It may take while but you have to have faith he will come around. And keep supporting him, and parenting him.

 

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[kboo]

Given all this background, esp the ADHD and ODD, I could definitely see you wanting to have a vacation and taking the other kids on a stress-free trip. I don't see it so much as "punishment" for your teenager as a respite for everyone else. Enjoy!

 

[Sugar Jones]

I personally couldn't use a family vacation as a punishment. When we go on a family vacation I couldn't imagine leaving anyone at home. However if you are comfortable with it, then you do what feels right for you.

I also agree that don't let people say it's our parenting that are causing the issues. Great parents can have difficult kids no matter how great they are, and terrible parents can have perfect children.

 

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[SEA333]

Don't let people tell you it's your parenting. Those who do have never had to deal with this type of child. I watched and still watch my mother struggle with my brother. And it was not for lack of good parenting. It may take while but you have to have faith he will come around. And keep supporting him, and parenting him.

I see what you are saying...

It always comes down to parenting, unfortunately. Not to be argumentative, but even when kids have issues, we still have to parent them in the best way and to the best of our ability possible for the child to learn how to grow up to be a productive member of society. Even special needs kids need this - they may never reach the point of "adulthood" that non-special needs kids will, but each kid is different and deserve to be parented to reach the peak of THEIR individual best.

If we cannot look into ourselves as the parent and try to figure out what is going on and how to best approach the problem, then we should take another look. I am hard on myself as a parent - when things are not going right with my kids, especially as they get older, I feel it never hurts to self-evaluate to see what *I* can do better. I do not accept fault for my son acting like a jerk, lol, but I do look at the situation to see what I can do to help it. Does that make sense?

OP - I am genuinely on your side and looking at your situation from an objective point of view...in no way do I blame you, your family, your parenting, etc for your son's behavior now. No fault assigning here....the past doesn't matter, only what to do about it to help your son for the future. I am looking at this clinically because right now there IS a problem and sometimes self-reflection can help. If you can think about his own unique personality and what drives him to want to be motivated and want to help, and find the ways that will work, the better you will be, the better he will be, and the better your family will be. This is so much more than a 4 day vacation - you take him...you don't take him...you leave him with grandma...whatever you decide is what you decide as the best course of action for your family. But that won't solve the bigger issue, will it? Sorry for my perhaps unsolicited advice...I know you only asked for advice on Disney trips, but Adolescent Psychology was my area of focus as a psychology major in college and I am passionate about it!

I've already said that I have a kid very similar to yours, just two years younger. I completely understand what you are going through (except for ages 16 and 17, but I see a lot of this type of behavior sticking around in my son especially once he reaches those ages). He takes out his bad attitude and anger/dissatisfaction on his younger siblings too, so I get that as well. A vacation away from the emotional chaos your son causes sounds wonderful, but may end up splitting your family apart more. One thing...have you asked the younger kids what they would like? Big brother or no big brother? I know in my family, my younger ones would want us to all go together. I wouldn't ask them straight out - they do not need to be part of a decision like this - but maybe drop it into a conversation somehow and gauge the reaction?

I guess my point is - Disney/no Disney is not the solution. If you need to change your son's behavior (valid) or even if you feel that there isn't much you can do at this point because he is almost an adult (completely valid, too), let it be independent of excluding him from a family vacation.

If you decide not to take him, I would agree with you that it would be for the best of the rest of the family - and maybe even for him, too, but only based on the fact that he has decided that HE doesn't want to follow the conditions of the trip. He's almost an adult...do you think that he is able/willing to follow the concessions you set for the trip? I mean, at some point, all adults have to agree to concede or walk away from a choice, right?

Again, as I said before, all people are different and what works for one, won't work for another. As in any relationship, it's your job to figure out what will work with him Or, maybe it's time for him to worry about figuring out what works for him and deal with the consequences.

I'm sorry you are going through this....it's not easy at all!

 

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[THREEBOYSPLUSONE]

OP- I know where you are coming from. In 2012 we did make the choice to leave our then 15 year old son home from the trip my husband won to Universal and Seaworld. He had major behavior and mental health issues. His were so bad though that he was in an out of home placement for them. He could not behave himself for us to take him with us because he would have ruined the trip for us and his two brothers.That trip turned out to be one of our best vacations ever because there was no fighting and carrying on and the fact that most of the trip was free helped. The year before when he was at home yet he was to go on a mission trip with us and was warned that if he kept acting the way he was and got hospitalized one more time he wouldn't be going. He ended up being hospitalized the next day and didn't go on the mission trip with us. People didn't understand our decision. Our pastor kept trying to talk us in to letting him go. Both times we made the decision that was best for our whole family.

Thankfully he is 17 now and has made a lot of progress and will be going with us to WDW in June. Do what is best for your family and don't worry about what other people think.