“Sovereign Citizens”

[RedAngie]

About a week ago a video reel appeared on my FB page. It was a police body camera video of a driver who was pulled over for either speeding or some other moving violation.

When the officer asked for driver’s license, registration, insurance, the driver spouted nonsense about they are “traveling,” not driving, that they “don’t belong to the corporation,” whatever that means, and other assorted BS. They gave the officer a “fee schedule,” apparently what the sovereign is owed for inconvenience and harassment.

It took a while, but the officer called for backup and they eventually smashed the driver’s window and forcefully yanked him out. The driver was fighting so the cops put him on the asphalt face down and threatened to tase him if he kept resisting.

They finally got him handcuffed and placed in the police car. All the while the driver kept spewing the same sovereign nonsense.

Of course, since I watched that video, FB’s algorithm decided that I wanted to see more of the same. Some are quite entertaining. Almost all had fake plates on their cars.

Is there some scam website or tiktok video that sells this stuff to the gullible? Many seem to recite the same phrases and act the same way.

Oh, one sovereign called supposedly “her lawyer” who stated the police would be convicted of treason if they continued to detain her “client.”

 

[tvguy]

Yeah, I had a series of those videos on my Facebook time line too. You know more than I do because I never watched them.
Until last week I was also getting videos of how live fish/seafood were stunned and prepared for cooking. Swimming in a tank to cooked and on a plate in 15 minutes or so. All seemed to have been recorded in Southeast Asia.

 

[Disneylover99]

Yeah. Those videos pop up for me from time to time and I’ve watched a few. It’s really mind boggling. I’d never want to be a police officer.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

About a week ago a video reel appeared on my FB page. It was a police body camera video of a driver who was pulled over for either speeding or some other moving violation.

When the officer asked for driver’s license, registration, insurance, the driver spouted nonsense about they are “traveling,” not driving, that they “don’t belong to the corporation,” whatever that means, and other assorted BS. They gave the officer a “fee schedule,” apparently what the sovereign is owed for inconvenience and harassment.

It took a while, but the officer called for backup and they eventually smashed the driver’s window and forcefully yanked him out. The driver was fighting so the cops put him on the asphalt face down and threatened to tase him if he kept resisting.

They finally got him handcuffed and placed in the police car. All the while the driver kept spewing the same sovereign nonsense.

Of course, since I watched that video, FB’s algorithm decided that I wanted to see more of the same. Some are quite entertaining. Almost all had fake plates on their cars.

Is there some scam website or tiktok video that sells this stuff to the gullible? Many seem to recite the same phrases and act the same way.

Oh, one sovereign called supposedly “her lawyer” who stated the police would be convicted of treason if they continued to detain her “client.”

I'm a fan of shows on TV like On Patrol: Live. Southern Law (A&E) is the most recent incarnation I've seen. They've had several Sovereign Citizens on them. They all spout the same mantra "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" "I don't recognize your authority to detain me" "I'm calling my lawyer to start a claim again you" yada yada yada.....

Most of them wind up with a smashed window and lots of charges.

 

[cheryl.UK]

We see this a lot in the UK. People spend too much time down some algorithm rabbit hole and believe all the quasi legal mumbo jumbo. We also get people claiming to be a 'Freeman of the Land" who aren't therefor bound by statute laws to which they explicitly consent, arguing they can opt out of legal obligations like taxes or legal punishments. It's become somewhat of a joke.

 

[JayMass]

It's actually sad. These people seem to truly believe what they are saying holds legal weight. I'm a high school teacher and it seems like the type of argument a 9th grader might try to make when called out for violating some rule.

 

[dizneegirl]

We had a customer 20+ years ago that claimed sovereign citizenship. It was printed on the checks he'd pay us with.

 

[smrt1]

Is there some scam website or tiktok video that sells this stuff to the gullible? Many seem to recite the same phrases and act the same way.

Yes. It’s called “social media.” It allows the dummies to find each other. Once they get in large groups it causes further brain deterioration.

 

[mistysue]

This has been going on longer than social media, I read all about it in the few years before FB came out - in the US it at that point at least involved people who basically denounce participation in our government but you aren't allowed to use US currency, or get any sort of ID as a tradeoff. I couldn't never quite figure out how it would all work out in practice because I kept finding too many dead ends by the time you had to live somewhere... it might work if someone were completely off the grid on land owned for generations and never left/had to interact with anyone. But then again, would it be working or simply evading the fact that they probably would have a crazy tax bill somewhere?

To me it relates to the silliness of people arguing to abolish property tax- then have to realize "property tax" is also a general term for things like your trash pick up service and bills for fire, police, ambulance, libraries, etc. So not so much a tax as an agreed group contract. You can be sovereign all you want, but whoever lives at that address still has to pay the bill for the services received.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

This has been going on longer than social media, I read all about it in the few years before FB came out -

Yep, Sovereign citizenship in the US started in the 1970s.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

About a week ago a video reel appeared on my FB page. It was a police body camera video of a driver who was pulled over for either speeding or some other moving violation.

When the officer asked for driver’s license, registration, insurance, the driver spouted nonsense about they are “traveling,” not driving, that they “don’t belong to the corporation,” whatever that means, and other assorted BS. They gave the officer a “fee schedule,” apparently what the sovereign is owed for inconvenience and harassment.

It took a while, but the officer called for backup and they eventually smashed the driver’s window and forcefully yanked him out. The driver was fighting so the cops put him on the asphalt face down and threatened to tase him if he kept resisting.

They finally got him handcuffed and placed in the police car. All the while the driver kept spewing the same sovereign nonsense.

Of course, since I watched that video, FB’s algorithm decided that I wanted to see more of the same. Some are quite entertaining. Almost all had fake plates on their cars.

Is there some scam website or tiktok video that sells this stuff to the gullible? Many seem to recite the same phrases and act the same way.

Oh, one sovereign called supposedly “her lawyer” who stated the police would be convicted of treason if they continued to detain her “client.”

Yes, there is a series of videos to sell this stuff to the gullible. In fact on some of the funnier sov cit videos, you can see them going through the pages to find the right thing to say to the cops. And they're just as terrible in court. They do about as well as the Flyers against the Hurricanes.

 

[bcla]

This is mostly good clean entertainment until someone is seriously injured or killed. And that’s happened before. There was one guy in Utah who insisted that he didn’t need a driver license. And it got complicated because he may not have “contracted with the state” but he produced a US passport. In the end he had a gun and was apparently reaching for it.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/09/13/farmington-police-shooting/​

As the officers pulled open a door to Allan’s car, one began shouting that he had a gun. The officers stepped back and began firing. Allan was struck multiple times. When officers pulled him out of the car and began attempting life-saving procedures, an empty holster could be seen on Allan’s right hip, and a handgun could be seen on the driver’s-side floorboard, according to the police body camera footage.​

​

In his letter explaining the decision not to prosecute the police officers, Rawlings wrote that Allan had been “lawfully stopped”; that Allan “refused to step out of the car”; and that he “attempted to withdraw a loaded firearm on the assembled officers, actually succeeding in getting it out of the holster he was carrying it in.”​

 

[smrt1]

This is mostly good clean entertainment until someone is seriously injured or killed. And that’s happened before. There was one guy in Utah who insisted that he didn’t need a driver license. And it got complicated because he may not have “contracted with the state” but he produced a US passport. In the end he had a gun and was apparently reaching for it.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/09/13/farmington-police-shooting/​

As the officers pulled open a door to Allan’s car, one began shouting that he had a gun. The officers stepped back and began firing. Allan was struck multiple times. When officers pulled him out of the car and began attempting life-saving procedures, an empty holster could be seen on Allan’s right hip, and a handgun could be seen on the driver’s-side floorboard, according to the police body camera footage.​

​

In his letter explaining the decision not to prosecute the police officers, Rawlings wrote that Allan had been “lawfully stopped”; that Allan “refused to step out of the car”; and that he “attempted to withdraw a loaded firearm on the assembled officers, actually succeeding in getting it out of the holster he was carrying it in.”​

I have absolutely zero sympathy for that guy and I applaud the officers for protecting themselves. In fact, I’ll say I’m glad he was “stopped” before he took the next step to “homegrown terrorist.”

 

[_19disnA]

Social media has certainly made it easier for those in the looney tune 'sovereign' crowd to interact and find each other. They can then share their nonsense about how to avoid being a citizen, not paying taxes or spouting some legal mumbo jumbo means they can do whatever they want. In the real world where you and I live, there is no legal basis for the nonsense they are claiming.

 

[NaptownMom]

My public defender friends absolutely love these guys

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

And next week, we'll have a thread about first amendment auditors.... lololol

My public defender friends absolutely love these guys

They nearly always fire their appointed attorneys or the attorney asks the judge to remove them. On some occasions the judge will make them have a stand by attorney.

 

[irlandaise]

My public defender friends absolutely love these guys

Surely someone who declares himself free of the responsibilities of the state would also be free of its rights, such as free counsel. Surely these clowns aren't so hypocritical as to take help from the state, right? Right??

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Surely someone who declares himself free of the responsibilities of the state would also be free of its rights, such as free counsel. Surely these clowns aren't so hypocritical as to take help from the state, right? Right??

Well, they do use public roads, also. I guess they pick and choose what works for them.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Surely someone who declares himself free of the responsibilities of the state would also be free of its rights, such as free counsel. Surely these clowns aren't so hypocritical as to take help from the state, right? Right??

They actually refuse their free counsel. They think they are so smart and all knowing that they've discovered the true law and Lawyers and Judges and Cops and government officials have all swallowed the blue pill and are stuck in the matrix. But judges often put the free council on stand by Against SovCit wishes because these people are just that ignorant and incompetent so they can't say on appeal the judge knew I was a moron and didn't give me an opportunity of a lawyer.

 

[RedAngie]

I was looking into this nonsense a bit. Occasionally the charges against the Sov Cit are dismissed because the officer didn’t show up to testify or some technicality. The scam websites or videos offer these rare occurrences as victories and “proof” that their theories are valid and legitimate. But the Sov Cit defense has NEVER been successful in any US court.

As for those “First Amendment auditors” videos, why do idiots who don’t want to be recorded walk right up to the camera?