Wouldn't Disney Make More Money!

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by Patpat15, Jul 4, 2003.

  1. Patpat15

    Patpat15 DVCer

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    Wouldn't Disney make more money if they gave DVCers the Florida resident discount on Annual Passes?

    What do you think?
     
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  3. CaptainMidnight

    CaptainMidnight DIS Veteran

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    We're a captive audience that they know will be returning. As much as I'd like better discounts, they might not see an advantage. They've already convinced us to return to thier facilities for the next 39 years.
     
  4. InstImpres

    InstImpres DIS Veteran

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    I would settle for just being able to join the Florida Dinners club at Dis for the discounts on food. The cost of our character meals really adds up!

    Sandy
     
  5. Terry S

    Terry S <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    I don't know if they would make more money, but they would sure make a lot of people happy!

    I guess if they did offer a discounted AP more people would be inclinded to buy one and they they would think to themselves, well we got the AP's, we might as well use them..... then they would use up all their points and have to buy more points. Okay, giving a discount on passes might make them more money!
     
  6. CarolMN

    CarolMN DVC Co-Moderator Moderator

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    IMHO, Disney has some of the best "data gatherers" and data analysts in corporate America. If they thought they would make more $$ by offering DVC members admission discounts, it would already be done. All we have to counter their data / market strategy is anecdotal evidence and/or statements made by members.

    Although I'd love a discount on annual passes, I simply do not believe Disney would see an increase in revenue as a result of the discount.
     
  7. Scott H

    Scott H <font color=red>First to Magically cross from King

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    I agree with the aforementioned. This does not stop me from telling them I would love the FL res rate on my PAP purchase at every opportunity I get. Be that either letter or email or verbal fedback during the annual meetings.

    I say we let them know we would like it every chance we get.

    The again in three years 10 months and 24 days I will be a FL res.

    The other thought is we pay property Tax in FL. I pay there and in Charlotte County every year. Kind of a Patrick Henery thing.
     
  8. dvc_john

    dvc_john DVC since 1993

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    Well, they WOULD make more money from me if they gave us the Florida resident discount.
    I buy an AP one year, and then don't go to the parks the next year. I was there in May without an AP, and didn't go to any Disney parks. Went to Seaworld and a water park. If we got the Florida discount, I'd keep my AP active all the time, and go to the parks every trip. And I'd spend money in the parks every trip.
    And, they'd about break-even or make money on the tickets:
    1 year regular AP = $393.
    1 year Fl resident seasonal pass and 1 year renewal = $375.
    1 year Florida resident unrestricted pass and 1 year renewal = $599.
     
  9. CaptainMidnight

    CaptainMidnight DIS Veteran

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    Good point. I think we'd eat at EPCOT more in the evenings on those days when we don't do the parks all day.
     
  10. DebbieB

    DebbieB DIS Veteran

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    This comes up in every annual meeting and every once in awhile someone will start an e-mail campaign. So they are well aware that the members want it and if it would make them more money they would be doing it instead of shooting down the idea at every opportunity. I don't buy the definition of "florida resident" as an argument, all they have to do is call it a "dvc member pass" instead.
     
  11. Blake

    Blake Earning My Ears

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    This was true at one time, but not anymore. Disney is a big company and the divisions that are having problems cannot figure out what the customers want. Look at the ABC TV. They can't place a primetime show in the top 10 (unless it's football season). They killed Who Wants To Be A Millionaire through overexposure.

    I think the same is true for the parks. These analysts may have a lot or raw data, but they seem more interested in validating their pre-conceived notions than find out what would be mutually beneficial to the company and the public. Read the threads on the focus groups. They seem to be making decisions as if it was still 1980 when Disney had a monopoly on Orlando area entertainment.

    A lot of folks like to point out that when we bought DVC we only bought vacation accomadations, not special perks or privileges. Now Disney has to realize that they only sold us vacation accomadations, not an agreement to spend additional money only at Disney. The company should be actively competing for our vacation dollars. If they did, I would think most of us would be more than willing to spend "at home".
     
  12. Caskbill

    Caskbill <font color="blue">DVC-Operations<br>DVC-Planning< Moderator

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    I too agree completely with DVC_John. We too are firmly developing a pattern (since free passes expired 1/1/00) of purchasing annual passes every other year. We still use our DVC accommodations during the off year, except go to SW, IoA and other non-Disney activities.

    If I could get an annual pass for two years for the same price I pay now to get only one year, I would do it, and subsequently spend a lot more time in the parks, buying souvenirs, and eating in the restaurants.
     
  13. anniet

    anniet DIS Veteran

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    Not sure- What is the price of the UPH pass vs. the Annual pass and how many people purchase the UPH? (do I see a poll coming? :eek: ) If they are making money now, why change it?
     
  14. Muushka

    Muushka <font color=red>I usually feel like I just stepped

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    AAAAhhhhh, a voice of reason. Thanks, I needed that.

    They sure would from us.
     
  15. CarolMN

    CarolMN DVC Co-Moderator Moderator

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    We'll just have to disagree on this one. FWIW, I think the ABC-TV example is not relevant - IMHO, a TV network is a significantly different animal from a theme park.

    I have no doubt that many DVC members who post here have reduced their park visits and believe they would spend more at WDW if they received a bigger/different discount on park admission. I just don't think that they are representative of the typical DVC member.

    If you charge back to your room, Disney knows where you spend your WDW $$. If you buy an annual pass or an UPH, Disney knows how often you visit and which park. They have the ability to cross reference DVC members who have annual pass admission media. I'm convinced that they keep close track of these (and other things) - perhaps not by individual, but certainly at the macro level. Doesn't it make sense that if they saw significant changes in those numbers, that they would be developing startegies to "stop the decline?" To me, the best way to get Disney to offer better park discounts is for significant numbers of DVC members to quit charging back to their room.

    When this topic came up at the annual meeting last year, the GM as much as said that they did not believe that increasing discounts for park admission represented a good opportunity for Disney to increase revenue from DVC members. Instead, they intended to concentrate on enticing DVC members to enjoy the other recreational and minor park attractions. Don't hold me to the exact words, but that is the gist of what I understood of the answer the GM gave to the question of annual pass discounts for DVC members.

    In summary, while it is certainly possible that Disney business managers have missed a trend, I just don't believe that they aren't looking at the data. It's much more likely that they don't see as much of a money-making opportunity as some DVC members do.

    P.S. If a discount on PHP or AP/PAP is ever offered, I will be among the first in line to take advantage of it. At this point, I can't honestly say that I would spend more at WDW because of it. Perhaps as we venture more off site, that will change in the future.
     
  16. PKS44

    PKS44 DIS Veteran

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    Blake captured my sentiments exactly--this mantra that Disney automatically does the best thing for themselves is blind faith-not supported by the latest evidence including their horrible failures at ABC and Go.com---...the failure of Animal Kingdom to catch on, the failure of DCA, the success of Tokyo DisneySea (when Disney's "numbers crunchers" laughed at Tokyo for investing so much and predicted failure) the failure of Character Caravan to replace Early Entry---how anyone can look at Disney's latest track record and conclude that they have the best "numbers crunchers" is either wrong or a terrible statement on the quality of available "number crunchers."

    I don't know if offering DVC members discounts would or would not help Disney in the short or long term...but I am betting Disney does not really know either.
     
  17. CarolMN

    CarolMN DVC Co-Moderator Moderator

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    Again, I am referring to only the liklihood of increasing revenue by offering DVC members discounts on PHP and/or AP/PAPs. As far as I'm concerned, ABC-TV, Go.com and etc. are not relevant to that decision.

    FWIW, I don't see how AK and DCA can be called a failure. They may not have generated the total amount of revenue the initial forecasts predicted, but they certainly did better than many other theme parks. (When these parks were proposed, no one was predicting the decline in our the economy and the effects of 9/11/2001 on air travel).

    According to a CNN article, these are the top 10 parks in terms of 2002 attendance - note AK is #5 (behind 4 other Disney parks) and that all 6 of Disney's parks are in the top 10:

    1. The Magic Kingdom (Lake Buena Vista, Florida)
    2. Disneyland (Anaheim, California)
    3. Epcot (Lake Buena Vista, Florida)
    4. Disney MGM Studios (Lake Buena Vista, Florida)
    5. Disney's Animal Kingdom (Lake Buena Vista, Florida)
    6. Universal Studios (Orlando, Florida)
    7. Islands of Adventures (Orlando, Florida)
    8. Universal Studios Hollywood (Hollywood, California)
    9. Seaworld Florida (Orlando, Florida)
    10. Disney's California Adventure (Anaheim, California)

    Here's a link to the original CNN article:

    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/summer.trips/top30.html

    FWIW, I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I don't doubt that Disney managers make mistakes like everyone else, but I do not believe that they are either stupid or irresponsible. They have the data and the rest of us have only our opinions. My boss always said "In God we trust, all others must bring valid data!"
     
  18. CaptainMidnight

    CaptainMidnight DIS Veteran

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    Great list of parks, thanks for sharing.

    Sometimes, I think it is a matter of attention. What has the attention of those determining discounts that they give priority to and make the effort to make happen. While lots of changes might help make more money, they are not acted upon due to attention and priority. Someone somewhere says no, and that sticks and it isn't reconsidered.

    We don't always buy APs. If we did through a financial incentive, we would be more likely to eat at Epcot in the evenings when we didn't spend the day in the parks.
     
  19. CarolA

    CarolA <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    I doubt Disney would make more money since they would switch a lot of people like me from AP to Florida Resident Passes. That would actually be a decrease.
     
  20. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    CaptianMidnight,

    Since few Epcot restaurants sit empty at dinner time, in my experience - even during slow periods, Disney wouldn't make a significant amount of money from you eating in Epcot. Either you make your PS, or Bob and Sue from Iowa do a walk in at 5:30.

    DVC members are more Disney aware - which probably means that we are more likely to book hotel or DTD restaurants anyway - and those are the restaurants less likely to be operating at capacity. Those restaurants are the ones that we are likely to get DVC discounts on - because Disney is trying to drive traffic to them.

    We don't actually spend that much money in the parks. We don't snack our way through, we don't buy any more souvieniers if we spend an extra day there. In some ways, we are MORE likely to spend money on the "non-park" days - playing golf, renting watermice, going horseback riding, putting the kids in kids clubs and going out to a nice dinner.
     
  21. vernon

    vernon DIS Veteran

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    Carol said
    I agree very much with what most of Blake said to this. The most valid part is to point out that Disney is an entity now that is split up into many different divisions. The division that deals with park tickets, it's arguable as to whether they would actually make more money. Personally I think they would, but until someone has the testicular fortitude to try it we'll never know. Where I'm certain Disney as a whole would increase revenue is that many people, like me, would visit a themepark for 3 or 4 hours eat a meal, shop a little and buy a few drinks. Maybe spend in the region of $80-100 a day X 15to 20 days a year that's in the region of $1,500-2,000 that I don't spend at Disney. From the evidence on this board I would suggest there are many DVC members like me that would visit the parks more if they had a better break. My most recent visit I went to one Disney park in 8 days on site, I spent most of what I saved by treating myself to 2 days at the Portifino Bay Hotel at Universal ( $400 ) park tix ( $150) , meals ( $450) and drinks $100. The point is that the divisions in Disney that would certainly make more money, are not the divisions that issue the tickets. IMHO that is the #1 reason why you don't see a decent deal. It has nothing to do with what I see as a "win win situation" and everything to do with the internal squabbles that go on within Disney. All the divisions are scared to make a move that they know would be successful over all for the company, but worry they are giving a rival division a "free leg up" while they incur a cost themselves.

    In my situation Disney would make on park tickets, because I currently get a 5 day hopper plus and make it last for 2 x 14 day visits , but they would make massively on my vacation $$$ staying on site, at the moment it will go to Discovery Cove one year, Universal the next and Busch Garden/SW after that.

    Crisi Said
    To a degree you're making my point, just I would venture that it's very possible that playing golf $$$ could go "off site" , as could horse riding and a nice diner. Maybe 30% or more of that spending you mention could go off site as people have the time to travel for better/different deals. Whereas with a better deal on park tickets it is more likely that the convenience of on site golf,riding,dining would mean people spending a couple of hours in the parks ( before or after those activities) wouldn't want to waste the time it takes to drive to off site facilities.
     

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