Would You Have Tipped In This Situation?

[cluvsdisney]

I think it either has stay the way it is or the restaurants pay their staff appropriately and tipping goes by the wayside. If it's the latter, prices will certainly be increased to compensate for the higher payroll and increased employer taxes.

As for salary, I can see it two ways: Straight salary for hours worked or a base salary with commissions/incentive for higher sales, efficient table turning, etc. This would be between the employee & employer - the customers are taken out of the equation as they won't be expected to leave tips.

 

[declansdad]

I think it either has stay the way it is or the restaurants pay their staff appropriately and tipping goes by the wayside. If it's the latter, prices will certainly be increased to compensate for the higher payroll and increased employer taxes.

As for salary, I can see it two ways: Straight salary for hours worked or a base salary with commissions/incentive for higher sales, efficient table turning, etc. This would be between the employee & employer - the customers are taken out of the equation as they won't be expected to leave tips.

Tipping won't go by the wayside, it would just change the reason why people tip. In all these threads we are told you have to tip because the server's wages are dependent on tips. That is not why tipping started, tipping is suppose to be a reward not pay.

 

[okw2012]

I think it either has stay the way it is or the restaurants pay their staff appropriately and tipping goes by the wayside. If it's the latter, prices will certainly be increased to compensate for the higher payroll and increased employer taxes.

As for salary, I can see it two ways: Straight salary for hours worked or a base salary with commissions/incentive for higher sales, efficient table turning, etc. This would be between the employee & employer - the customers are taken out of the equation as they won't be expected to leave tips.

It surely is possible, that is exactly how it works in France. And their restaurants are pretty good!!! People will simply leave a few coins unless service was exceptional. And waiters are paid accordingly. So don't tip 20% at Disneyland Paris!

 

[cluvsdisney]

Tipping won't go by the wayside, it would just change the reason why people tip. In all these threads we are told you have to tip because the server's wages are dependent on tips. That is not why tipping started, tipping is suppose to be a reward not pay.

Do people go around tipping employees at other establishments for a job well done? The dry cleaner, the drug store, the supermarket? I have to admit, I don't.

It surely is possible, that is exactly how it works in France. And their restaurants are pretty good!!! People will simply leave a few coins unless service was exceptional. And waiters are paid accordingly. So don't tip 20% at Disneyland Paris!

I believe it's possible it's just a very different than the way things work now. There might be some growing pains but I know it works this way in other places and it's just fine.

 

[mom2of2]

Tipping won't go by the wayside, it would just change the reason why people tip. In all these threads we are told you have to tip because the server's wages are dependent on tips. That is not why tipping started, tipping is suppose to be a reward not pay.

That's the way it started, yes. It's not the way it is now.

If servers were paid a straight hourly wage they would have no reason to upsell. Restaurants are all about the upsell. From apps, to desserts, from shakes to call liquor it's all about getting the check higher. It benefits the sales of the restaurant and the tip for the server.
Servers first job is as a salesperson. I don't know of a single person in sales that doesn't want to boost their sales. Their commission is the incentive for them, tips are servers commission.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's the way it started, yes. It's not the way it is now.

If servers were paid a straight hourly wage they would have no reason to upsell. Restaurants are all about the upsell. From apps, to desserts, from shakes to call liquor it's all about getting the check higher. It benefits the sales of the restaurant and the tip for the server.
Servers first job is as a salesperson. I don't know of a single person in sales that doesn't want to boost their sales. Their commission is the incentive for them, tips are servers commission.

That's an interesting way to look at it. BUT, when you buy something from a sales guy, the commission is included in the price. You don't buy a car and when it's time to write the check they say "ok, that will be another 18% for commission". Restaurants could offer bonuses for number of tables, amount of "sales", whatever.

 

[declansdad]

Do people go around tipping employees at other establishments for a job well done? The dry cleaner, the drug store, the supermarket? I have to admit, I don't.

I don't know of anyone who tips at those places but everyone I know tips at restaurants and they aren't tipping because they are making up the difference in a server's wage. They are tipping because of the service.

 

[mrodgers]

Do people go around tipping employees at other establishments for a job well done? The dry cleaner, the drug store, the supermarket? I have to admit, I don't.



I believe it's possible it's just a very different than the way things work now. There might be some growing pains but I know it works this way in other places and it's just fine.

Housekeeping at hotels (Mousekeeping)? The hair stylist? Doormen just for opening the door? Bathroom attendant? Taxi? The guy loading and unloading your baggage from the airport to a Disney resort? Lowes appliance delivery? (not allowed to accept tips, BTW.) Roofer? DirecTV installer? Is this your first time reading the community board here?

 

[declansdad]

That's the way it started, yes. It's not the way it is now.

If servers were paid a straight hourly wage they would have no reason to upsell. Restaurants are all about the upsell. From apps, to desserts, from shakes to call liquor it's all about getting the check higher. It benefits the sales of the restaurant and the tip for the server.
Servers first job is as a salesperson. I don't know of a single person in sales that doesn't want to boost their sales. Their commission is the incentive for them, tips are servers commission.

It is the way it is in most of Canada and many other parts of the world. The US is the only place I know that uses a system like this. Servers here still upsell and because people base their tip on the amount of the bill, the tip is higher if they upsell.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't know of anyone who tips at those places but everyone I know tips at restaurants and they aren't tipping because they are making up the difference in a server's wage. They are tipping because of the service.

No, they're tipping because it's EXPECTED. Look at the OP... what kind of service did they get? Yet people still felt a tip is necessary.

 

[declansdad]

No, they're tipping because it's EXPECTED. Look at the OP... what kind of service did they get? Yet people still felt a tip is necessary.

I agree with you, I don't think the OP should have tipped at all but that doesn't fit with the argument people make that you have to tip in order for the server to get paid.

Here we tip based on the service received not because we are paying the owner's employees.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I agree with you, I don't think the OP should have tipped at all but that doesn't fit with the argument people make that you have to tip in order for the server to get paid.

Here we tip based on the service received not because we are paying the owner's employees.

The original poster got two rounds of drinks an an appetizer. Yes, I'm aware one of the drinks was wrong but she drank it.

Despite the entrée order being lost, in the same conditions I would have tipped - for two rounds of drinks and the appetizers.

That's the service I got.

 

[declansdad]

The original poster got two rounds of drinks an an appetizer. Yes, I'm aware one of the drinks was wrong but she drank it.

Despite the entrée order being lost, in the same conditions I would have tipped - for two rounds of drinks and the appetizers.

That's the service I got.

In this case, the OP overall experience was terrible. If you want to break down your service by each individual part of your meal and tip on each part, go for it. Personally I decide the tip based on the overall experience in the restaurant.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In this case, the OP overall experience was terrible. If you want to break down your service by each individual part of your meal and tip on each part, go for it. Personally I decide the tip based on the overall experience in the restaurant.

That's you. You live in Canada where servers earn an hourly wage comparable to similar positions.

In forty states in this country, the legal hourly wage for servers is 1/3 or less the minimum wage (which is still, nationally, almost 25% lower, apparently than Canada's).

I don't agree the original poster's service was terrible. It was mediocre/average. Certainly not outstanding, excellent, great, even good. But it's customary here to tip based on the check. Her check was $33 - they ordered, received, and consumed $33 of food and beverage. In her position, I would have calculated my tip on that amount.

I don't think she's wrong to have tipped $2. I think tipping nothing would have been wrong.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's you. You live in Canada where servers earn an hourly wage comparable to similar positions.

In forty states in this country, the legal hourly wage for servers is 1/3 or less the minimum wage (which is still, nationally, almost 25% lower, apparently than Canada's).

I don't agree the original poster's service was terrible. It was mediocre/average. Certainly not outstanding, excellent, great, even good. But it's customary here to tip based on the check. Her check was $33 - they ordered, received, and consumed $33 of food and beverage. In her position, I would have calculated my tip on that amount.

I don't think she's wrong to have tipped $2. I think tipping nothing would have been wrong.

AVERAGE service? Come on Kaytiee, in what world is average service not only not getting your meal but having to tell the waiter you haven't gotten your meal?

 

[declansdad]

That's you. You live in Canada where servers earn an hourly wage comparable to similar positions.

In forty states in this country, the legal hourly wage for servers is 1/3 or less the minimum wage (which is still, nationally, almost 25% lower, apparently than Canada's).

I don't agree the original poster's service was terrible. It was mediocre/average. Certainly not outstanding, excellent, great, even good. But it's customary here to tip based on the check. Her check was $33 - they ordered, received, and consumed $33 of food and beverage. In her position, I would have calculated my tip on that amount.

I don't think she's wrong to have tipped $2. I think tipping nothing would have been wrong.

Well we'll have to disagree with the service, in fact I think the restaurant should have comped them the entire check. I have no proeblem if you would tip for something like this, tipping should always be a personal choice.

As for the wages being hire in Canada, I know, no one has disputed that. The point is that it is possible to increase the server's wage, allow people to tip based on service and not as a means of pay (that's the employer's responsibility) and still not price the restaurant out of business.

 

[mjkacmom]

Who knows why the tipping structure is the way it is here in the US. Heck, maybe it was started by all of the overseas immigrants starting up businesses, not being able to afford to pay staff, and the staff so desperate for work, agreed to be paid in tips.

Whatever the reason, it is what it is - most folks actually living here are fine with it. When travelling, it is important to find out the laws and cultural rules of the country you are visiting, and act accordingly. I'm sorry people get confused about tipping at a restaurant, for bags, for a taxi, for a haircut, for pizza delivery... Me, I'm pretty comfortable with the whole system, and has been my previous generations, and I will carry on.

 

[Andtototoo]

Who knows why the tipping structure is the way it is here in the US. Heck, maybe it was started by all of the overseas immigrants starting up businesses, not being able to afford to pay staff, and the staff so desperate for work, agreed to be paid in tips.

Whatever the reason, it is what it is - most folks actually living here are fine with it. When travelling, it is important to find out the laws and cultural rules of the country you are visiting, and act accordingly. I'm sorry people get confused about tipping at a restaurant, for bags, for a taxi, for a haircut, for pizza delivery... Me, I'm pretty comfortable with the whole system, and has been my previous generations, and I will carry on.

I often shake my head at how we always hear about the "ugly American" who travels abroad without any knowledge of the cultural mores of the area visited, but based upon the number of times I've heard foreigners carry on about tipping and refusing to tip, I'm thinking Americans aren't the only ugly travelers who refuse to learn the ways of their destinations.

In the US, tipping is the norm. Just as I covered my shoulders and arms when I went into churches in Italy, I'd expect foreigners to the US to be prepared to tip when they come to the US. If I refuse to cover my shoulders, I'd have been refused entry to those churches (and I saw it happen in Florence and Pisa).

This article from the NYT traces the history of tipping -- it came from Europe and although resisted in the US, with some states passing laws prohibiting tipping, it has persisted.

While the precise origin of tipping is uncertain, it is commonly traced to Tudor England, according to Tipping, Kerry Segraves history of the custom. By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the hosts servants. Soon after, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments.

After the Civil War, wealthy Americans began traveling to Europe in significant numbers, and they brought the tip home with them to demonstrate their worldliness... As tipping spread  like evil insects and weeds, The New York Times claimed in 1897  many thought it was antithetical to American democratic ideals...

In 1904, the Anti-Tipping Society of America sprang up in Georgia... Leagues of traveling salesmen opposed the tip, as did most labor unions. In 1909, Washington became the first of six states to pass an anti-tipping law. But tipping persisted. The new laws rarely were enforced, and when they were, they did not hold up in court. By 1926, every anti-tipping law had been repealed.

Meanwhile, Europe was rethinking its devotion to the custom. The 1943 Catering Wages Act in Britain established a minimum wage for service employees that helped decrease their reliance on tips. And in 1955, France passed a law requiring its restaurants to add a service charge (service compris) to each bill, a practice that has become the norm for most of the continent. By then, the anti-tipping movement had all but vanished in the United States.

Why it still persists in the US -- because studies show that customers prefer to tip because they believe they get better service.

Eighty percent of Americans say they prefer tipping to paying a service fee, according to Zagat Survey. They do so, Leo Crespis surveys first demonstrated, primarily because they believe tipping provides an incentive for good service. But there is little correlation, in fact less than 2 percent...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12tipping-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[okw2012]

I would aslo say that sale prices are closely not loosely tied to costs.

I am in complete agreement with the rest of your post, but here is an interesting read on the relationship between sales prices and costs in this industry:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2011/10/19/restaurant-foods-that-are-ripping-you-off/

This is quite unrelated to the OP's initial post so I'll stop there.

 

[sam_gordon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12tipping-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Interesting article! Another quote I found interesting regarding why people tip...

largely because it’s expected and diners fear social disapproval.