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Why is DVC so confusing?

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by baronvonshush, May 2, 2013.

  1. baronvonshush

    baronvonshush Earning My Ears

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    I'm sure there is no simple answer to this question but I'm asking it anyways.

    My husband and I just returned from our first family vacation to WDW. We had an amazing time with our 1yr old and 3yr old. While we were there, we sat through an hour presentation about DVC to get the free fast passes. Also, we were genuinely curious, even though we had no intention of buying that day. Upon coming home, we decided we would really like to do a Disney vacation every year. Our kids are the perfect age to start going every year now. Our agent sent us home with a large packet of information but it really only highlights how many points you need and all of the perks of being a DVC member. It doesn't really talk about cost or any of the hairy details. From what I understand, if we buy in now at 100 points it will cost $14,500 and we will probably settle in around 10-12% interest.

    After reading around here, I'm even more confused. So you can buy from a reseller? How does that work? What happens if I buy from a reseller and not disney? What is the difference? If I buy from a reseller do I own a piece of Disney property just like if I were buying from Disney? Also the incentive they gave us was if we buy in now we get double points our first year. Does that make it worth buying into Disney. Our agent didn't talk about home resorts or the price per point difference.

    Honestly, we loved it so much that if we could we would go back again this year. My husbands vacation time doubles next year and we want to spend at least half of his vacation time at Disney. I'd love to buy in if its going to save us money and make our trip more enjoyable.

    I'm sorry for the novel, this is just a big decision and we want to make the right choice!
     
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  3. DizBub

    DizBub Totally Addicted

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    Yes, you can buy resale and you can buy at any resort you can find a contract for.

    Assuming they were trying to sell you AKV Kidani at $145 per point. Well, you can buy 100 points resale for half that price. Check the banner at the top of this page. The Timeshare Store is a sponsor and there is a complete listing of what they have for sale. The difference in resale is that the timeframe is about 60 days to get your points and you will either have to pay cash or arrange your own financing. You can get get "double points" through resale by buying a "loaded" contract, meaning there could be last year's (2012) points available along with current points (2013).

    There are restrictions on resale points. You cannot use them for cruises, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection or Disney Collection. Very expensive use of points anyway, not a good value.

    Everything else is exactly the same as buying directly from Disney if you buy resale when you use your points.......except the price. The savings are real and worth it.

    Keep reading and learning as much as you can before you buy. If you talk to the guide you spoke to during your tour, he will try to scare you away from resale but remember he's looking at a big, fat commission from you.
     
  4. ryanl81

    ryanl81 Earning My Ears

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    Stick with it and as the previous poster said, keep reading through the forum and you will find a wealth of information, views and guidance sone good some not so good but will all hopefully lead you to a better understanding to be able to make a choice.

    Your circumstances sound similar to mine, I have just opted to go resale and would be more than happy to help where I can :-)
     
  5. standardgirl

    standardgirl believing in magic

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    Think about it this way... when you buy a house, you can buy one from the developer (like buying DVC from Disney). In doing so, you would have more options/customization possibilities (like buying DVC from Disney, you can, in most cases, choose the Use Year "UY" that best suit you, and exact number of points you want to buy, etc.). OTOH, when you buy a new built from a developer, chances are they are more expensive than buying an already-built/lived-in house from a seller. This is like buying DVC from the resellers. In you go this route, you will save quite a bit of money, but you will have to look to see what's available in terms of resorts, UY, number of points. You can;t just go with what you want, but rather have to go with what's available. However, you will usually be able to find what you want anyway, or least close enough.

    The other difference between buying direct and resale is that there are some additional restrictions on DVC purchased from a reseller. Namely what others have said already. DVC points give you the option of not only vacationing in DVC properties (Vero, WDW, Aulani), but also the options to vacation through various "exchanges" (Concierge collection, Adventures by Disney, Disney Cruise, etc.). Contracts purchased via resale cannot benefit from certain exchanges. However, the $ per point value you get on most of those exchanges is quite low anyway, which is why if you read on this board, people will tell you that the "restrictions" don't really matter - since the $ value is so low, you shouldn't utilize those options in the first place anyway, and therefore restricting it doesn't really make any difference.

    You mentioned also about the 10-12% interest in your original post. Just be careful, any potential saving by buying in to DVC may be completely wiped out and you may very well end up paying more if you buy direct with financing from Disney. Of course, without the details, I can't do any calculation, but in general, financing DVC wipes out most, if not all, of the savings... Look for 0% credit cards, or get a Disney credit card which offers 6 month 0% APR on DVC purchases, plus a 2% cashback. :)
     
  6. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    Disney wants to make money selling you a timeshare direct. They will not tell you everything you need to know to make an informed decision. They will make it seem better than it is and won't tell you any of the negatives.

    Disney is a very expensive luxury vacation and buying a DVC timeshare will lock you into repeat vacations. You will pay dues that increase each year along with your tickets, travel, food, and other costs.

    Financing can really increase the cost of buying.

    You can buy from an owner who wants to get out, that's called resale. Disney made some rule changes taking away some of the places that you can use your points if you buy resale. That really shouldn't matter because the best use of points is staying at a DVC resort, other places are a better deal when paying cash out of pocket.

    There are many rules, policies, and ins and outs to using your DVC points and you will be much better off understanding them before you buy.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  7. kenspidey

    kenspidey Mouseketeer

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    Just to give you an example for the same amount of money 14k .... I bought 100 points at old Key West and 150 points at Vero Beach ..... a total of 250 points a year. It just just takes time and a little patience but it's well worth it.
     
  8. ercrbc

    ercrbc Mouseketeer

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    You have come to a great place to find all the information you could ever want about DVC :thumbsup2

    We took our first trip in the Fall of 09 with our then 4yo DD and 1yo DS. At that time we realized that we wanted to take yearly trips, in villa style accommodations. I looked at direct prices, BLT was selling for less than $100/pt. 4 YEARS AGO. Prices have gone up at a ridiculously high rate the past few years. We spent about 6mo researching and finally bought a contract through resale. Then added on another small contract a year later when I found out baby#3 was on the way. WE LOVE OUR DVC :goodvibes

    Start by looking at the point charts for all the DVC resorts (convenient links are available above!), research the different rooms styles and amenities at each resort (pools, location, theme) for each resort. Figure out which resort you would prefer to be your 'home' resort, and figure out how many pts you would need for your trips. Keep in mind certain resorts are MUCH harder to get into at 7mo out and you really need the 11 mo booking window to get those rooms. (ie BWV standard rooms in the Fall, BLT standard rooms any time, AKV club or value rooms, BCV most of the year....)

    Take a look at the resale broker that sponsors this site, and also do a search for the other resale sites (who don't sponsor the Dis and you can't refer to them here). We bought one resale from the TSS, and another from a broker equally professional but I can't put their name here ;) Read the ROFR thread (Right of First Refusal), this is a list of Dis members who have bought a resale contract and the details to which it closed. ROFR is the waiting period you must go through after putting a contract together for a resale. Disney has 30 days to refuse the sale of the contract and buy it back at the price you are offering.

    Downsides of resale: It takes about 2 months, longer if Disney buys back your contract and you have to start over. You also don't have the ability to use pts for cruises, adventures by Disney or for the NON DVC resorts*** Please read more into this, if you look up these pt charts you will see these options are GROSSLY OVERPRICED and a very poor value for your pts anyway.

    Upside of resale: SAVE TONS OF $$$$. Also you will be getting the resort YOU want, not what your 'Guide' wants to sell you. Oh and did I mention you will save TONS OF $$$$!!!!

    I hope this is helpful! Good luck!
     
  9. Minniesgal

    Minniesgal DIS Veteran

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    I would advise before you get too bogged down with $14000 or not spend some time thinking realistically how often do you want to go to WDW, what type of room do you want to stay in and where and for how long. Before going into price per point it is better to have a realistic idea of how many points you need to meet your requirements then you can look at the budget. I get the idea Disney have done you a quote on a pretty arbitrary 100 points but if you find you need more you might need to buy again it would be better to start knowing how many points you really need and the realistic cost of that before buying. You don't need to buy all the points you need at once we bought in three steps and paid cash as we could afford, but we knew upfront what we wanted to spend overall. 100 points doesn't go very far for a family of four who travel every year.
     
  10. dbs1228

    dbs1228 DIS Veteran

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    Read, read, read! Study these boards it is a wealth of information and do the math! We are waiting on a BWV contract 200 points and it comes with 2011, 2012 and 2013 coming in Oct and we will be paying about 13500.00 with closing costs. If Disney waives the contract we will rent the 200 - 2011 points out.

    There is a website David's rental where you can use his points calculator to put in dates of travel and it will show you how many points at each resort you will need for that week for each room type!

    BTW if you are not going to have a car while staying I would look into one of the 3 resorts that is within walking distance to a park - BLT walk to MK, BWV walk to Epcot and boat to HS same with BCV. We own at BLT since it is our favorite park and the walk cannot be beat. Our neighbors have 3 kids 5, 7 and 8 they own at BLT and have for years - they do not want to stay anywhere else since walking back to the room for nap time/down time is priceless - then easily go back to the park once refreshed. Good luck
     
  11. lodge

    lodge DIS Veteran

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    Reading through this I thought of another advantage to DIS, Disney executives don't need to do a controlled blind study through traditional means, they could use the boards to see people's perspectives on various topics. It's interesting that we never know who we are responding to, but openly offer advice, opinions, and support to strangers.

    OP, the more you read through all sorts of these threads, the more you'll comprehend more of it all... then something new comes up, that you never thought of, and you learn even more- it continues perpetually! :thumbsup2
     
  12. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    You've gotten some great advice already in this thread. I'll add my thoughts and try not to be too repetitive.

    Good strategy. I fully advocate going to the presentation because it is a good way to learn about the nuts and bolts of DVC. But at the same time I caution people to question what they hear, as I'll get to when I respond to a comment below.

    Two things. First, you are in a good place because you are aware of what you don't know about DVC. My advice would be to turn DVC into a hobby. Spend some time each day reading the "Purchasing DVC" boards here on the DIS and you will fill in a lot of the gaps in understanding. The second thing is...please take some time to read the threads on financing, and what it does to the cost of owning DVC. If you insist on financing, please know that you can finance a resale purchase, which carries much less risk in the long run.

    You've gotten great info on resales, so I'm not going to repeat that. However, the statement I've highlighted above is one of the many comments made by DVC salespeople that, depending on your outlook, can be characterized anywhere from misleading to a downright lie. It's not an incentive, it's a function of the relationship between use year and calendar year. Read a couple of "use year" threads and you'll get what I mean.

    Don't be sorry, be happy that you're taking the time to ask great questions. Here's the deal....salespeople of all kinds try to create a sense of urgency. What you need to realize is that there is no sense of urgency, and that DVC will be there next year, and the year after that should you decide not to buy RIGHT NOW! :) Take the time, do your research, ask questions. And then when you have all the info you need, make the decision that works best for you. But seriously, yours is the best "first" post by a user I have seen in a long time. Good luck with your decision. :)
     
  13. jel0511

    jel0511 DIS Veteran

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    One thing here I didn't see mentioned is that when you buy resale, it's more difficult to finance the purchase than it is through DVC. I also think the interest rates are a little higher than DVC. Most people who finance a resale purchase, use a home equity loan for better rates and ease of getting cash. Now, I must put the disclaimer down, that we paid cash for all of our DVC points, direct and resale. In the end, I really don't know how the finance portion works personally, just what I've read here. As noted above, do your homework!!!!
     
  14. DizBub

    DizBub Totally Addicted

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    The main reason it appears that it's more difficult to finance resale is because Disney makes it seem so easy to go through them. They will finance anyone with a pulse as long as they aren't actively going through bankruptcy.

    We financed our direct sale because Disney wanted to charge anywhere from 11% to 15% depending on a credit score. We ended up with a 4.24% at home. It can be done.
     
  15. baronvonshush

    baronvonshush Earning My Ears

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    Thank you for the wealth of valuable information!! We are definitely Disney newbies! It looks like I have a lot of reading to do! Some of the links are working from my iPad so ill have to log in from my pic tonight. As far as planning is concerned, we typically vacation during the off season to get the best rates. However, as the kids get older and it becomes more difficult to take them out of school I am sure that will change.

    We have been home from vacation for 4 days and my son is still asking if we can go back to the hotel lol.

    Again thank you for the great information.
     
  16. sleepydog25

    sleepydog25 Been here awhile

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    As you do your research, keep in mind the resort your family might like the most. Bay Lake Towers is close to MK. Animal Kingdom Lodge has great possibilities of seeing animals but you are reliant on buses if you don't drive. Each resort has pros and ckns so keep that in mind.
     
  17. JimMIA

    JimMIA A little Miami humor...

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    A couple of comments on some of the info you've received so far:

    "Free Points"

    There are at least two potential meanings to this term, one applying to a resale purchase and the other applying to a purchase direct from Disney.

    When you buy direct from Disney, you get the full allotment of points you are purchasing -- no more, no less. DVC uses "Use Year," which means the 12 month period during which points may be used. In the example above, one poster talks about buying a contract with an October UY. If you buy direct, you would be purchasing during the 2012 UY for that contract, because October 2013 hasn't rolled around yet. Yes, you are getting "2012 points," but you're not getting something for nothing. You are getting what you paid for.

    Posters on the DIS will sometimes say you're getting "last year's points free" because they simply don't understand UY or that particular transaction. Any DVC timeshare salesperson who tells you you're getting points for free is lying -- OR you misunderstood, which is not hard to do.

    When you buy resale, you get what you purchase but there can be a tremendous variance in what that means. The reason for that is not only UY, but also the banking and borrowing features of DVC. dbs1228 above is legitimately getting "free points" from 2011 because the seller had banked those points into the following (Oct 2012) UY. They are buying what is called a "loaded" contract (one with significant extra points available). Now, those banked 2011 points expire on Sept 30 of this year, so whether they can use them (or rent them) remains to be seen. But they are truly getting "free points."

    On the other hand...(and you could probably anticipate hearing this other shoe drop), in a resale you could also be buying less than full points. That is called a "stripped" contract, and it happens when a seller has used all the points from the current UY, or even borrowed points from the next UY.

    So, in a resale, it is VERY important to research carefully and fully understand how many points you are getting in the current year, and future years. Not surprisingly, "loaded" contracts tend to sell a little above average market price, and "stripped" contracts tend to sell a little lower than average.

    "Perks"

    Ignore perks. I'll repeat that so there is no misunderstanding: Ignore perks.

    Perks come and go with one swipe of the Mouse's pen. They can and do change -- sometimes in ways you will love, sometimes in ways you will hate -- and they can change without any notice at all. A few years ago, DVC members valet parked their cars at their resort as a free perk, and awoke the next morning to learn they owed $10 for valet parking. The perk literally went away overnight with no notice to anyone.

    "Restrictions" on Resale Purchases

    If you are only purchasing 100 points, you can safely ignore those restrictions as well, because they will be meaningless to you. The things you lose have point costs far beyond the reach of a 100-point contract...even with banking and borrowing.

    *****
    You have come to the right place for clear, unbiased opinions on DVC. Opinions will vary all over the place, but most of the posters here are knowledgeable and nobody's trying to sell you anything.

    Research carefully and well. Good luck.
     
  18. DannysMom

    DannysMom DIS Veteran

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    You should also be aware that DVC is designed to operate at near 100% occupancy all the time. The off season for the park & cash resorts is a very busy season for DVC booking. From October straight through the beginning of January (marathon weekend) are very busy Times for DVC booking. Many will book their home resort at 11 months out, and if they want to switch, see what might be available at 7 months out.

    Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!
     
  19. luckyman_apd

    luckyman_apd DIS Veteran

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    We first found out about DVC when my brother told me about an owner he rented from for his trip, and then we rented from her for our trip Feb 2011. I was very intrigued. Found out some friends were owners and brought us back to disney with them June of the same year. From July to December of 2011 I stalked these boards and asked many questions and really learned all the ins and outs of the points.....banking and borrowing rules, use year implications.....you name it. There is so much to learn and when you throw out $14500....that's a good chunk of change. Take your time before spending that kind of money. Like Bill said....it is not an investment, it's not a real estate adventure (even if it is a deeded property). What it is prepaying for future Disney vacations. There is a lot of flexibility built in for your needs as they will change through the years...BUT you will be paying dues on the points for a long time to come. So it's not just the $14,500.....it's a 30+ year commitment. You did the right thing to come home and take your time to inform yourself. Disney loves to catch you in the moment of all the magic.
     
  20. Meggysmum

    Meggysmum Mouseketeer

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    TBH with the current Direct prices I think Resale is the way to go but I was also brought up to have as little debt as possible and I saved for my DVC rather than financing as the costs of the finance meant I wouldn't be making any savings for years. You only have to look at the DVC Resales that are asking extremely high prices to realise that some people overstretched themselves and instead of being a lovely luxury the DVC payments are a millstone around their necks.

    We bought Direct for BLT 3 years ago and can't believe the Direct price now so have our last two purchases from Resale.

    Are you a family that plan ahead for your vacations? DVC works best for forward planners who can, ideally, book at 11months or at least before 7 months. If you tend to book a month or two before you go you may end up disappointed or with a very disjointed trip with room changes.

    Research where you really want to stay as sometimes you may only be able to book at your Home Resort and won't be able to change at the 7month window so you must make sure you will still be happy. We love BLT, you can't beat the proximity to MK. However it is not a resort that I would want to spend my two week vacation at (flying from the UK we do 2 weeks normally) so we added on at SSR whch gives us the contrast of a quiet, relaxing resort for some of our trip too. SSR also had the advantage of cheap points and lowish Dues so I couldnt lose since I love it there.

    Remember to budget for the dues, these do increase every year. Even on a 100pt contract the difference this year between BLT dues and BW dues would have been $134. Consider the length of contracts too. Not all the resorts have the same end date.

    Research how many points you will ideally want for your trips and then make sure you buy enough for your needs for the next few years (remember you can bank and borrow if you don't travel every year for any reason). You can always add-on later but then you will have to pay costs per transaction and getting small contracts can be tricky as they are popular. Don't buy 100pts if you think you will want to add on 25 next year, it is better to save some money and try and buy the 125 in one go. If 100pt will do you for 5-6 years then that's fine. The points list per resort can't change although the dates and seasons and points per room category can be tweaked. Disney flattened out the huge difference between weekends and weekdays a while ago and last year they reallocated some BLT rooms but the points you see on the chart probably won't change dramatically so you can safely use them for your calculations.

    You can still use resale points for RCI exchanges if you wish just not the other collections.

    Don't look at the perks, they are transient, just look at the basic timeshare concept to see if it works for you.

    Think about the size accomodation you will need for your family as time goes on and your children grow. We bought enough for Studio accomodation for the 4 of us. Stupidly we also stayed in a 1-bed once, fell in love, and now we find the Studios too small but our kids are teenagers. We ended up adding on so that we can always have 1-bed units, usually at BLT, OKW or AK so they don't have to share a bed.

    In the distant future I can see us keeping our Direct contract for our use and then going through a process to gift our resale contracts to our children for their vacations.

    We didn't look on it as an investment, we took it as a way of prepaying our future trips to WDW. However it has meant that we have stayed in better accomodation than we would have done, stayed at VGC which would have been way out of our beudget and even had enough points to treat my daughter and her friend to a trip for their graduation.

    We have never regretted our purchase but we did spend a lot of time researching and number crunching before we took the plunge.
     
  21. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    It is POSSIBLE to save money on DVC, but if your motivation is financial, there are other ways to save money.

    Many DVCers don't save money over what they would have done had they continued to pay cash. There is a psychology working to Disney's benefit. They are, like Meggysmum, happier in one bedroom or two bedroom units where had they stayed cash guests, they'd stay in Studios. They end up adding on, to go more often or to take friends also and treat them. They might have discovered they were comfortable in a value, or offsite - both are cheaper ways to do Disney than DVC. With no room bill, they might spend more. With more trips, they end up trying activities they might not try - expensive Cirque tickets or tours. Now, a lot of people don't regret these choices - while their motivation going in may have been financial, they've decided that they are happy with the value they are getting, even if it ends up costing more - but its something to be aware of.

    The other thing you said is you are Disney newbies - It isn't at all uncommon for someone to have a wonderful first trip to Disney, a great second trip, a lovely third trip, a good forth trip....and eventually wonder why they always do the same thing - either burned out on Disney or just bored - the opposite of the dreaded "addonitis" - where you buy more points to go more often. Granted, you won't find many of them here, but it happens. My kids would rather spend a week at an all inclusive in Mexico or at a ski resort - they are thirteen and fourteen. Disney isn't a great trading timeshare - its limited, difficult and expensive. And DVC is a commitment, if you sell at a loss after three or four visits, you will loose money.
     

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