Why are DVC members paying so much?

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by lsjp, Jan 2, 2001.

  1. lsjp

    lsjp Earning My Ears

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    Why are DVC members paying so much for accomodations? Between the cost of purchasing the points, operating expenses, capital reserve expenses, property tax, etc. you are paying a fortune just for accomodations. That doesn't include air fare, meals, a rental car, entertainment, etc. And then you have to HOPE you can book your trip when you want to go.

    I don't pay DVC fees, go where I want to go when I want to go, and if where I want to go doesn't have accomodations when I want to go, I don't have to pay them. I can skip it and save the money, I can go somewhere else, I can book it for another time . . . if **I** want to.

    I just don't see the advantage to the DVC. I think you are all being ripped off. My sister has DVC at OKW with a 350 point plan. If you figure out the income stream from what she spent for the points, it amounts to $1600 a year. When you add the $1100 in additional fees, that's $2600 a year. And what does she get for that? About ten nights in a one bedroom . . . maybe. That's if she booked early enough. She didn't this past year and had to book separate accomodations off Disney. So now she paid for accomodations twice. Such a deal. Like $2700 for ten days was cheap to begin with.

    Just my 2 cents worth. I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I encourage anyone looking into this plan to look into it VERY CAREFULLY before committing any money.
     
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  3. nydizfan

    nydizfan <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    you seem to not have educated yourself on the values of a DVC ownership. Just wait. i dont have the time to answer all your questions but all i have to say is ... just wait , the answers will come , hard and fast . You asked for it. hehe dave :cool:

    offsite '71 contemporary '72 golf resort '76 village resorts '93 okw '94 okw '95 contemporary '96 okw '97(got married) okw '97 late okw '99 okw '00
     
  4. Lesley

    Lesley DIS Veteran

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    Do you have any clue how much 10 nights in a 1BR would cost if you paid cash? Well over $2500, even in value season.

    And she doesn't lose her points unless she fails to bank them...so the next year she can plan ahead better and get 20 days...or whatever.

    No, DVC isn't for everyone...but it is a good deal for many of us.

    [​IMG]
    Lesley


    1979 Contemporary
    1992 Off-site
    1994 Carribean Beach
    1999 Fort Wilderness and Coronado Springs
    2000 Polynesian and Old Key West
    2002 Boardwalk Villas
     
  5. Pixieduster

    Pixieduster Mouseketeer

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    Currently, 10 nights in a 1 Bedroom at OKW during Value Season (subsantially higher during peak times) would go for $3,750.00. If you add on the 11% tax, that would be 4162.50. Those prices will coninue to go up yearly, where as the points required for a one bedroom through DVC will never go up. Also, you show her as paying 1600 per year. If she purchased her plan this year with the price increase for points now at 72.00 a point (she may have paid less depending on when she purchased) the cost of the 350 points would have been $25,200.00 broken down over 42 years would be $600.00 per year with annual dues being approximately 1137.50. She's paying $1,737.00 per year for 10 days in an accomadation that would cost her much more than that without DVC. The value will only increase over the years as the prices of Disney resorts continue to go up. I know I didn't include financing costs in this however, but none the less, if you are a person who travels to Disney frequently, this is definitly not a bad deal. It would currently cost apporx. 1431.00 to stay 10 days in a moderate resort during value season at Disney this year. You can't even begin to compare a moderate with a one bedroom accomadation which includes lots more space, a kitchen, a huge bathroom with a jacuzzi tub, washer and dryer, two balconies, I could go on and on. Like the previous posters have stated, it's not for everyone. But for people like us, who saw ourselves having to pour more and more of our money into Disney each year for our vacations, this was the way to go for us. We don't feel like we are getting ripped off in any way. It seems that the majority of us DVC owners couldn't be happier with our decisions.
     
  6. dianeschlicht

    dianeschlicht <font color=blue>DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Hon

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    Dont cast aspersions unless you know the details. We always went on a cash basis before we bought into DVC. My husband looks at ALL the details before he does anything like this. He is, after all, an engineer! We figure we save about half by doing DVC than we would if we booked a regular reservation at a deluxe hotel on-site, and then we would not have a full apartment with kitchen, washer/dryer, whirlpool tub, and all the other amenities. It is a great deal if you are willing to do the planning and are a detail person. If you aren't will to do these things, then you will lose out, but that is no fault of DVC. We looked into lots of timeshares after we took the first DVC tour to see what the others were about and compare DVC to them. We found DVC to be head and shoulders above anything else we looked at. I have even been very successful at exchanging for Hawaii, and I still had enough points to book Disney twice for that same year. That means 3 weeks of accomodations in deluxe resorts with all the amenities. Can you do that each year for a 15,000 initial investment and $700 a year maintance fee? I don't think so. Especially when you consider that we do this year after year after year. We will be retiring in a few years, and I intend to take even more use of my DVC. I might even buy more points! :D

    Disneydiane
     
  7. WebmasterDoc

    WebmasterDoc Administrator Administrator

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    After we joined DVC in 1993, I carefully tracked all costs- including original purchase expense, amortized lost interest on that amount and annual fees (I didn't include transportation and food since I would have paid for those anyplace else.) I also tracked what expenses I would have had in other onsite accommodations. In less than 5 years- I was ahead in $$ saved.
    Depending on how often you can go and what type of resort you would stay at the savings can be significant.
    If you can go to WDW at least every other year- DVC will save $$ over time. This is fairly easy to demonstrate. In addition, the rooms are far larger with nicer amenities than any other resort at WDW- full kitchens, jacuzzi tubs, w/d, etc.
    You might want to call 1-800-800-9100 and ask for the free video and information packet and then take a tour. There is a lot to learn about the program. Enjoy!

    Doc DVC Board Co-Moderator
     
  8. lsjp

    lsjp Earning My Ears

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    I appreciate the replies so far. Somehow, though, I am still seeing things a little differently. Let's start with, some are comparing DVC prices with Disney prices. I guess that's part of the problem. I think Disney resorts are overpriced. Some years ago we stayed at the Boardwalk Inn. Nice, but the room was the same size as the room we had at the Best Western the year before at five or six times the price. And I've found nice places just outside of Disney with larger suite type accomodations with kitchenettes, nice pools, and nicely manicured grounds for half the price of Disney.

    With respect to comparing $25,000 up front to $600 per year, I vehemently disagree. If you had $25,000 up front, invested the money at a market rate, and withdrew just enough money every year so you would empty your account after 40 years, you would have over $1700 per year, not $600. That's a big difference in cost. $600 per year would correspond with an $8500 up front cost.

    That's not your total expense. Add to that some $1100 in other fees. Total expense per year: $2800. I can get really nice accomodations for that kind of money. In Disney, that number of points would be good for about a week at the Beach Club, three weeks in a studio at OKW, a week and a half in a one bedroom at OKW. You get the idea. The Disney properties are nice and there is little around that is like them, but I just think that's a lot of money for accomodations only.

    Then there is the aggravation. If you forget to call early enough then you can't book the accomodations for when you want them. I don't want to hear "you have no one to blame but yourself". I don't need the aggravation. Then I see postings from people trying to rent points they don't want/can't use. I see postings from people wondering if they are going to "lose out" on their points if they don't use them. They have to call to "bank" them or they'll lose out (even after paying all that money, you can still lose out).

    I see this as a can't lose situation for Disney. They get people to commit to spending lots of $$$$ on accomodations every year for the next 40 years. That's just for starters. Then you can spend money on their overpriced (sometimes excellent, sometimes good, sometimes lousy) restaurants. Then you can spend money on their souvenirs. You can spend money on their theme parks. I understand why Disney does this. They can't lose.

    Like I said, I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade. That's not the purpose of this post. I just don't see how it all adds up.

    Sorry for being a pain. Regards.
     
  9. DebbieB

    DebbieB DIS Veteran

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    Gee, Disney managed to rip off the current 53,000 members who all didn't know what they were doing? They are so sneeky! :)

    When you compare the price of DVC to a moderate, it does sound expensive. But we are not getting moderate rooms, we are getting luxurious accomodations. The 1 bedrooms and up are nowhere near the size of regular hotel rooms. The rack rate on the 2 rooms I had last year (1 bedroom - 6 nights each) was over $4,600. My dues were about $1,000. So there's over $3,600 to put towards what DVC cost me. At this rate, I figure to break even within 5 years and will just be paying dues after that.
     
  10. JulieWent

    JulieWent DIS Veteran

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    When I pulled up the boards this morning, the first post I read was, "Disney Resort Prices Going Up." I read this with interest but without worry. My DVC is paid for. After I pay my $600 dues for the year, I get to spend six nights in a one-bedroom at BWV in May. The room I booked for this trip BEFORE I bought BWV was at the Poly -- current rate $420 per NIGHT. Do the math. For my family, DVC was a good purchase. It's not for everyone, but each of us has our own little "luxuries."
     
  11. jimh13432

    jimh13432 Mouseketeer

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    The last time I looked, you couldn't walk to Epcot or MGM from the Best Western either.
     
  12. RWishbone

    RWishbone Mouseketeer

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    The reason that the DVC is such an excellent value is the size and location of the rooms. If you are only looking for a clean place to sleep and do not mind travelling back and forth to the parks each day, then the DVC is not for you. I own at the BW and can only relate my experiences there but that resort has so much to offer my family it is well worth the price. First off, the resort only a short walk away from EPCOT and MGM. While others are fighting the crowds after Illuminations just to get to the monorail, I am already back at the resort. It literally takes one hour off the end of the day and with little kids, that makes a huge difference. Next the size of the rooms and the availability of a kitchen are huge advantages. Again with small children, it is great to be able to put them in for a nap in the next room or to be able to put them to bed before the rest of the family goes to sleep. If you just want to talk money, then consider that a full kitchen in the room allows us to save big bucks on meals. Quite honestly I could go on forever about the benefits of the DVC (jacuzzi, great pool, pool hopping, etc..) Next time you go to Disney, split your vacation between an offsite Hotel and a one or two bedroom at the Boardwalk. Then get back to us...until then you are uniformed.

    Rich
     
  13. TimL

    TimL Earning My Ears

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    Before buying into DVC I struggled some with the numbers, too, wondering if DVC was a good deal.

    The BIG point I was missing (as DebbieB pointed out) was that a DVC one bedroom is SO MUCH nicer than a room at a moderate. You have a full kitchen, king sized bed in a separate bedroom, vcr, jacuzzi, etc. Do your cost analysis on what you would pay for a one bedroom in cash vs dvc points. We saved $4000 on our first trip over the cash price and continue to save each and every trip. We also save on meal costs because we can eat breakfast and sometimes lunch at our one bedroom villa (before we ate out 3 times a day at the expensive Disney restaurants).

    Yes, you can get similar accomodations offsite at less of a price, but it's not the same as staying onsite. We stayed offsite in 1998 and the bus transportation was terrible so we ended up using our rental car. At OKW we have bus transporation right outside our door. Also staying onsite takes far less time when taking midday breaks back at the room - when we stayed offsite it took alot of time to find our car, drive back to our offsite hotel, drive back to Disney and park, take the boat to the MK, etc. (disney buses let you off at the entrance to the MK, not at the parking lot).

    As someone else said, DVC isn't for everybody. I am a planner and I never have a problem getting the reservations I want 11 months out (for our home resort) and so far 7 months out for the other dvc resorts (we've stayed at 2 others besides our home resort). Some people are more spontaneous, planning last minute trips, and they may be frustrated when DVC rooms are not available. Also you can get more value out of your points if you plan to avoid staying at dvc resorts on the weekends (where the point cost doubles).

    If you are happy staying in regular sized Disney hotel rooms or offsite, don't like planning ahead, and take alot of weekend trips, maybe DVC isn't for you

    [This message was edited by TimL on 01-03-01 at 09:35 AM.]
     
  14. Doctor P

    Doctor P <font color=navy><font color=navy>Chocolate covere

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    Given the number of financial professionals and other very intelligent people who are members of DVC, it's hard to believe we have all been hoodwinked. ;) As has been said hundreds of times, DVC is not for everyone--you need to expect to go to DVC resorts (whether at WDW or elsewhere) at least once every three years. Second, you must view DVC as a prepaid vacation plan.

    Let's compare apples to apples for a moment: Let's assume that one takes a vacation in Orlando every year and stays off-site at peak (holiday) season in a studio/kitchenette type of arrangement. Having investigated this last year and just looked up numbers again, $800 per week would be a very bare minimum for the holidays. Assume a six percent increase in room rates each year (reasonable in that market from past trends), and the cost will be doubled every 12 years. Thus, in 2013 the week will cost about $1600, in 2025 the room will cost $3200, and in 2037 the room will cost $6400. Without playing with inflating all the intermediate years, this means 12 years at $800= $9600, 12 years @ $1600 is $19,200, 12 years @ 3200 is $38,400, and 5 years at $6400 is $32,000. Thus, the total of this pay as you go scenario would be $99,200. My cash outlay for 150 points will be about $12,000 including interest. at an annual rate of increase in dues of even 6% (very high!!!!), my dues would be about $950 in 12 years, $1900 in 24 years, $3800 in 36 years. My total outlay for dues would be $58,900 under this extreme scenario. Add that to the $12,000 outlay for the points and I still come out about $30,000 ahead in this scenario without even considering the more favorable tax treatment of the DVC purchase. I assure you, even with discounting a significant financial advantage for DVC does not go away!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. drusba

    drusba I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.

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    Actually you are correct that DVC is more expensive than if you went to Disney every year and stayed off-site. In fact, even if you like staying on site but don't mind going to All-Stars (the budget resort) every year, the cost of DVC would likely be higher in the long run. Finally, I cannot disagree that on-site hotels, particularly deluxe class, are very expensive in comparison to nice off-site accomodations.

    Nevertheless when considering the true value of DVC, the proper comparison is to deluxe accomadations on site, as that is what the DVC resorts are. The overwhelming majority of DVC owners prefer, rabidly, to stay on site in the best accomodations they can afford. In other words, they are among that large group of people who simply believe that the experience of staying on site beats staying off-site any day. Many such as yourself believe otherwise. It is like people who like to live in cities and those who don't. A 3 bedroom condo in the heart of the activity area of a major city is likely to be substantially smaller and more expensive than a large 4 bedroom home in the suburbs. The owners of the condo are there because they prefer being in the heart of the action while the ones in the suburb can't believe someone would really want to live in the city particularly at the prices charged. When comparing value in that situation, you don't compare the two. You compare the condo to others in the same area.

    To me, when I consider value as a BWV owner, I look it as I am able to get a 1BR or better in one of WDW's premier areas (Epcot/MGM)for a price which is less than I would ever spend on renting a single hotel room in the same area year after year.
     
  16. RweTHEREyet

    RweTHEREyet DIS Veteran

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    lsjp wants to be convinced. Otherwise, why bother with all this commentary. If you have to be convinced, then DVC isn't for you. If you don't know that you want DVC, then forget about it.

    RweTHEREyet?
     
  17. Pixieduster

    Pixieduster Mouseketeer

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    Right Drusba. For people like us, you can't possibly make a comparison of a DVC resort to an offsite resort, because I personally would never stay offsite. There is something about being onsite that just makes our vacation that much more enjoyable. If you're a person who likes being offiste, then DVC probably is not for you. For those of us that prefer being onsite, DVC is a great way to go.
     
  18. jcodespoti

    jcodespoti <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/index.

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    Then Don't join.


    p.s I Never had a problem booking and getting what I want. Never.
     
  19. wdwnut

    wdwnut DIS Veteran

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    hi to all: lsjp- our only regret was not having purchased into dvc in 93 when we first heard about it. we waited and stayed on-site in places like the contemporary, poly, and wl with our ap rates before we bought into the bwv. we could've had the entire initial outlay paid off by now! oh well, live and learn! seriously, as the other posters have noted, if you like staying off site, dvc may not be for you. whatever your decision, have a wonderful time at wdw!
     
  20. Jimbo

    Jimbo 6 AM and already the boy ain't right.<br><font col

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    I don't have too much to add, but as a very satisfied DVC member with 400 points, I have to chime in.

    It's been said many times in this thread already, but the cost of onsite accomodations is going up at a rate that's much higher than inflation. The bulk of our costs, OTOH have already been paid. All that's left is the maintenance fee, which is going up at the inflation rate, or less.
    And I <u>want</u> to stay onsite; if I didn't then maybe I'd see things differently.

    You said that you could take the $25,000, invest in a MM, and take out $1700 per year for 40 years. Bear in mind that this $1700 would be pre-tax. Living in a high tax state, I always figure that $1 of income is only 60 cents after tax (and that's conservative). So my $1700 would actually be about $1000. That doesn't go very far at WDW.

    Your points and membership are also marketable. If your sister so chose, she could sell her 350 points. She could get $3500 in a flash for them. Many people are asking more; she could too. She could also sell her membership. If she were willing to settle for $19,000, he could probably sell it in a day. If she held out for, say, $21,000 it could take a little longer.

    I'm baffled as to why she can't get accomodations. I've called for OKW reservations as little as two months in advance, and I've NEVER had any problems. I understand that 1999 was special, because of those of us that had park passes that couldn't be used after 1999. Other than that, though, it should be a breeze.
     
  21. DisneyCrazy

    DisneyCrazy DIS Vet / DVC Member

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    I think the big thing here is that if you are HAPPY with staying off-site then DVC is NOT for you. Those of us that ALWAYS stay on-site will see a big $$ advantage over the years. We, like wdwnut, are only sorry we didn't purchase in 1992 when we first stayed at OKW (13 nights in a 2BR - that trip alone would have covered 1/3 of our initial investment). We have 350 points and have made three trips to WDW in 2000 (5 night in an OKW studio in May, 5 nights in a OKW Grand Villa in August and 5 night in a BWV 1BR in December) - Heck, the five nights in the OKW GV would have set us back over $5k alone!

    It all depends what you are happy with - we would NOT be happy staying anywhere else but on Disney property - to us that is 1/2 of the vacation experience. Also I have never had trouble getting the accomodations I want, when I want (except when having to change VERY close to our arrival date, but I've had trouble with that staying OFF-SITE for a conference as well). I think DVC memeber LIKE to plan a little more than the average 'once in a lifetime' Disney visitor - again it adds to our vacation experience.

    As with anything, there are pro's and cons - my one sister tends to make last minute plans and likes to stay at various locations (BC and DxL are her favorites) so she has opted not to buy into DVC - but not becuase of the $$ factor.

    To each his own!

    -Paul
     

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