Where is the best use of points outside DVC?

Discussion in 'DVC-Mousecellaneous' started by icydog, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. icydog

    icydog DIS Veteran

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    I am actively looking to buy another timeshare but first I want to see what's out there. I have seen the Four Season Resorts on line, and I don't know if they cost as much as DVC, but they are beautiful. Is there any resort that costs as much as a DVC timeshare?? Does any resort have the same value 10 years into the contract as my DVC? I know there are some lovely resort chains around but I am curious if DVC is the most expensive. I am trying to compare to resorts in the red, gold or platnum season since I think that is why I bought DVC, to be able to travel in the peak season to WDW.

    Also if this isn't too many requests, I would like an honest answer. Which resort is really worth trading my DVC points for?
     
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  3. jel0511

    jel0511 DIS Veteran

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    Well, DVC is comparable in price to the Marriott's and Westin's, but DEFINATELY cheaper than the Four Season's and Ritz's. DH and I looked into some of the Four Season's but didn't like the fixed structure and the price was a little rich for us. About the same for a one week, what we've paid for our 425 points. I also like the flexibility of the DVC program better, and also with our love for the Mouse, seemed like a perfect fit for us.
     
  4. icydog

    icydog DIS Veteran

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    Okay this all depends on when you bought your points. I bought some BWV at $76 and BCV from Disney at $85 a point so using your numbers 425pts X $85=$36,125. Was one week at the Four Seasons more than that? Figure the price now at $95 X 425= 40,375. Was it more than that? If it was I can't believe they can stay in business.
     
  5. jel0511

    jel0511 DIS Veteran

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    If I remember correctly (this was about 2 years ago) the rate started at $35k and went up to around $80k for a week, depending on size unit and week selected. This was for one Four Seasons at Troon North.
     
  6. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    Many timeshares are expensive and most are far cheaper resale than from the developer. Cost does not necessarily equal value though it does currently for many at DVC. I would discourage you using the price as your benchmark of value. Instead, decide what you want to do and find a way to do it as cheaply as possible. The best value in using your DVC to trade is going to be the top resorts at top times like the Four Seasons during peak, top Marriott's during prime time and the like. Most options would be far better using non DVC trade options such as owning another timeshare or system.

    Since you can travel off times and seem to be flexible, I have some suggestions, they will mirror some I made on the other thread. One is that just getting access to II and/or RCI can give you the chance to go to off peak places for as little as $200-400 for a week as a direct rental, often cheaper than just the maint fees for where you are going. Then there's the option of buying something cheap to trade like South Africa. And the lockoff trade with bonus weeks, often generating 2 or 3 trades (plus exchange fees) for one week owned. Some of the points systems offer last minutes rentals and exchange options that can be quite cheap. Under 45 days at RCI or 60 at II, you may be able to trade just a few points to get almost any unit available irregardless of size. Of course you could buy something like a quarter or fifth share which traditionally gives you more usage options and far less fees overall than a single timeshare week. And none of these are exclusive of each other so you could do a multitude of things together which might truly be your best option anyway.

    If I were retired and my plan was to travel for say 10 weeks year mostly off season, AND shoulder season, here one approach I'd cosider highly. I'd likely sell all my DVC points and buy a cheaper Marriott to trade like Harbour Pointe shoulder season (owned one and sold it), plus maybe two points systems (WorldMark and Bluegreen come to mind but you could sub RCI points or Fairfield as well for BG). This would give you access to Marriott's, The 100 or more resorts within the two points systems, direct rentals at last minute from the points systems, RCI AND II direct rentals, trading less points for great resorts during off time and short notice trades. And one could likely do all the above for about the same up front cost as 200 DVC points and about 150% of the yearly maint fee costs to give you directly about 3-5 weeks a year or indirectly 10-20 or more weeks per year. If you add in exchange costs and yearly fees, maybe double the yearly fees of just a single DVC membership of 200 points. And you should still be able to stay at DVC in off time in 1 or 2 BR units.
     
  7. FLYNZ4

    FLYNZ4 DIS Veteran

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    I would echo what Dean has said.

    I own a different points based system (WorldMark) and it is a small fraction of the cost of using DVC. Unless I was going to lose points... I would never use DVC points to trade for off-disney. I would certainly try to rent out my DVC points before ever trading.

    If you have any interest in staying off of Disney property... I would strongly recommend that you buy a different (and much cheaper) property and use that for your off WDW trips.

    The only reason I bought DVC at all was because it is much easier to get DVC properties by owning DVC points. Between juggling FF miles availability of flights... and II exchanges into DVC (tough trades)... it made sense for me to buy some DVC points to simplify our trips. Now I can plan and book my DVC vacations 11 months in advance, and always get the condo and plane reservations.

    /Jim
     
  8. PrincessDadx2

    PrincessDadx2 Openly has the hots for Wuv Tigger

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    I believe that 4 seasons changed their buyin, so you now have to buy 4 weeks. That is about $140k to get in :earseek: And yes, it is far superior to DVC in quality and service but you have to like things like staff placing cucumbers on your eyes while you lounge at the pool ::yes::

    Don't know how the value computes in points, but I know I can usually get into San Diego in May with my Marriott.
     
  9. icydog

    icydog DIS Veteran

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    Dean I'm sending you an email. I tried to understand all you wrote but I feel totally lost. I see the opportunities in your post but all the gyrations and permutations are staggering. I can call you to discuss this further if you'll allow me to. I just need to get a handle on this and I don't want to make any mistakes. A nice lady contacted me with two Marriott weeks, in HH in the Monarch Marriott, for a very good price but for weeks 3 and 4. She says I would be able to trade out of season (sept or oct) for many, many lovely and way more expensive timeshares. Does this sound right to you?
     
  10. FLYNZ4

    FLYNZ4 DIS Veteran

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    Icy-Dog,

    Are you a member of TUG? I would run (not walk) there if you want to learn a LOT more than you can imagine as being possible. Beware... most people on TUG think that DVC owners are totally insane for paying as much as we do... but you can definately learn how to vacation for a very small fraction of what it costs to be in DVC... which is why I recommend DVC for your WDW stays... and other options for everything else.

    I think the url is www.tug2.net but that is from memory. If wrong... google will find it for you in a fraction of a second.

    /Jim
     
  11. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    I know you are already familiar with TUG. Even the experts are not going to know everything about everything. You need to spend enough time looking and formulating you plans until you narrow your choices somewhat. It will get easier at you go along and accumulate knowledge. Then buy one thing and see how it works then go from there. I personally have moved to a "buy what I want to use then rent it out when I can't use it" model. This is simple and gets me exactly what I want but not the cheapest option. I'll be where you are someday and I will likely change my holdings accordingly.
     
  12. 5infam

    5infam DIS Veteran

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    I am looking at this the same way Dean is, and that is buying where you want to stay. I only own DVC today, but I am currently looking into Marriott for Hawaii - and although some have stated how expensive DVC is, Marriott in Hawaii is no joke!! The only problem is, I know people that own Marriott and I have seen the one in Maui before and heard good things about the one in Oahu, but I am not familiar with any other timeshares in Hawaii and how good of a property, location, etc. they are. For those of you that own at several, how do you go about finding what's right for you without visiting every resort out there?
     
  13. FLYNZ4

    FLYNZ4 DIS Veteran

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    Once again, TUG seems to have the best general information in my opinion. The yearly cost is trivial compared to the information available.

    A few years ago ('03)... we wanted to take a trip to WDW and we were not DVC members yet. We have come to expect condo accomodations... and I could not bear the thought of spending time with 5 of us in a hotel (we usually would book the WDW Deluxe)... and I really did not want to spend the money for 2 deluxe rooms... nor did I want to down-grade our accomodations to get two rooms at a moderate. We booked the Marriott Cypress Harbour for two weeks via an II exchange... and my total cost was under $250/week counting the MF's for my home resort points... and also my exchange fees. It was a fantastic deal financially... and the physical condo was more spacious, and nicer than most (including DVC condos)... but we missed being on WDW property... so we ended up buying DVC. It is much more expensive... but DVC has a total lock on the location... and when we go on vacation, we think that location is very important.

    Anyway... I suggest using TUG to do your research. You can get a lot of subjective information... and then sift through it all to make you own judgement.

    /Jim
     
  14. 5infam

    5infam DIS Veteran

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    Thanks Jim. I have been looking at TUG and even found a nice resale there for a Marriott I am looking at. I have never become a member, but I think it is time. It is still really hard to tell about a resort with out personally seeing it, or really knowing the person making a recommendation. With DVC it was easy because I knew a few owners and quite frankly I trusted in the Disney name. With Hawaii though, I am not sure that a name brand is the way to go, when something else may be out there that is fantastic and half the price or better. Looks like I will be in research mode for some time!!
     
  15. FLYNZ4

    FLYNZ4 DIS Veteran

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    The Tug reviews are only available to members... so once you sign up, and start reading, I think you will be able to form your opionions. It takes time to learn who to trust online... and why. Also... you will find that people rate something high or low for reasons that you dont care about... so you discount those opinions.... but other times, they provide insights to things you would never think about... much like what happens here on Dis.

    I have not been vacationing in HI, so I cannot offer any advice. If I was looking to vacation in HI on a regular basis... I would first book through the resorts that I already own which have a presence there... but I would also check out various places in person during a trip. I think I would have a hard time buying a real estate interest without seeing the property... except maybe like you... with the exception of Disney.

    Since you dont already own anything that can be used there (except DVC which I would not recommend)... consider renting a place and checking it out in person.

    Also... if you are looking for a particular resort over there... ask for a direct exchange with someone for a prime HI location in exchange for some time at DVC. DVC is hot enough that you should be able to do a direct exchange that is much more favorable than what you can do via II. TUG would be a good place to arrange that as well.

    /Jim
     
  16. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    I have seen most of them on Maui and Kauai and a couple on Oahu. It really depends on how often you will go and what you will do when you don't go as well as your tastes. A few thoughts and tidbits. If a 1 BR will do, consider the Embassy's on Maui. Marriott usually does EOY at 60% of the EY price. However I hear they've been running a special where you can do two EOY for 50% each of the EY price for each. Still more than resale but a nice option. If you don't mind being out a few miles, consider One Napili Way which has cheaper dues and has a combo of fixed and floating possibilities and also can buy EOY for 50%. Resales at places like SOK, Schooner, Maui Lei, Alii Kai, Lawaii Beach and the Embassy's can be quite beneficial. If you find a private seller, you might try to reach an agreed upon price with the stipulation you rent the first year and the price minus the fees goes as a down payment if you proceed. There are a few with points as well including the Westin, Club Intrawest, and Bluegreen. And many systems offer priority for trades in, so you may not have to buy in HI to stay there most years.
     
  17. 5infam

    5infam DIS Veteran

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    Thanks for the advice Dean and FLYNZ4!! Dean, I was originally thinking Maui because we like it there, but we do love the full kitchens and don't mind cooking on vacation, so the Maui Marriott may not work as well, plus we are a family of 5 (kids are 2, 5 and 13) so for us, we could make a 1 bdr work, but really prefer a 2 bdr so everyone has their own bed. This is why I am really looking hard at Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club because they all come as 2 or 3 bdr's, plus it seemed somewhat secluded from the hustle and bustle (more of a true Hawaii feel) but close enough to hustle and bustle (like a good looking outlet mall for my wife) if we want it. I was really looking for your expertise on this resort, but I believe you said in a post recently that you have not visited this resort. In any event, you hit it on the head with the 60% EOY as well as the 50% EOY 2 weeks and at 2 resorts. We are really looking hard at that option because we could be true owners at both the Maui and Oahu properties. Only thing is I can't bring myself to part with $40,000 for a 1 week timeshare. The comment you made about maybe buying elsewhere in the system, and then trading with priority makes sense as long as I can find something cheap and possibly where I may want to stay. Any suggestions on cheaper Marriott resorts that would help me trade in?
     
  18. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    I'd only buy elsewhere and try to trade in if I was going to do so about every third year or less. The mini kitchens are really quite functional most having a microwave, small stove top and the appropriate utensils and equipment, unlike the DVC studios. But getting a 2 BR might be tough on Maui at all through exchange unless you go out at places like SOK, ONW or the Schooner. The newer Kauai resort is on the South side by Poipu beach and a quiet but very nice location. The Embassy is nearby as well as Lawaii Beach resort. I have seen the property, the plans, and the mockups. When I was there in 2002 it was a construction area with mostly cement. Looking at the plans and view representations, I had some concerns about the variability. If I remember correctly it was ocean view and mountain view. The locations they showed me on the models as each view suggested VERY variable views from one unit to another.

    The Embassy is nice as well, just not as nice as the newer Marriott's. You could likely buy a week at the Embassy on both islands for half what you are looking at the Marriott's. If you can find the Marriott resale, that will likely help some though you give up the points option, a small price to pay to save thousands IMO.

    Even if you looked to Marriott's to trade in, buy something you'll use. Maybe even something with a lockoff. LV, Ocean Point, Williamsburg and the Utah resorts come to mind as first thoughts. Also add in the CA and Arizona desert options. Bottom line though is buy there if you must have it and go most years, no matter the cost. Or just pay cash when you go, it gives you more options.
     
  19. 5infam

    5infam DIS Veteran

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    I think that is solid advice Dean on the trading frequency, which is what I was thinking...but having it confirmed by the Timeshare Master makes me feel like I am on the right track :smooth: I did notice some of the Embassy names on a few resales, and I believe I know exactly where that is at, so I am going back to do some research on those as well. From what I could tell, loosing the points option on the Marriott through a resale purchase did not seem to be a big deal to me either after looking at the actual point/reward value. It would make more sense to rent out yourself or even through Marriott, then to trade for points with poor redemption value. Oh well, the search continues. Looks like I may need to make an unscheduled Hawaii island hopping trip to go Timeshare hunting - isn't that terrible!! :D :D
     
  20. icydog

    icydog DIS Veteran

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    Okay, I started this thread a long time ago. I have been studying timeshares for a long time as well. I listened and followed the advice of Dean and FLYNZ4. I read the advice on tug. I am much more knowledgeable now.

    BUT
    I have a couple of questions. (1) how do I look in the RCI book on line if I'm not a member? I have been using a neighbor's info to sigh in but I doubt I can use her name to get me gift certificates or can I?
    (2) I bought an II book on ebay. That's all very nice and good, but again how do I go about looking on line and buying vacations as you suggested.
    I have been scoring the different sites looking for the perfect timeshare and I found it.. I just can't afford it The Four Seasons Aviara. I figured if I bought a 2 bdrm lockoff I can use one week and deposit one week into II. BUT, and this is a big BUT, the MFs are $2,000 a year. I can get a two bdrm gold season for 13K, but those recurring fees are dynamite.

    That being said, I have four places I really want to get to, the Harborside Resort, the Hyatt in Key West, the Marriott in Aruba(Ocean or Surf club) and of course Four Seasons in Aviara. How do I do this without using DVC points or spending 2,000 a year on dues?


    Marylyn
     
  21. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    RCI's directory page should give you an idea. I'm not sure how RCI does it but an II member can get up to 12 getaways a year including for friends and there's not even a guest certificate fee in that situation. I bet your friend can get them for you. II's online directory . I'm not sure how much RCI's directory varies from their member's one but with II, the only thing you miss is the 5* status.

    You have expensive tastes and none are reasonable to own to trade for the reasons you've already mentioned. Assuming you want one every four years, here's what I'd consider. Buy Aruba and Newport Coast from Marriott EOY which you can get for half the price, not their usual 60%. Then you can put in a request first for Four Seasons for the week you have reserved or before. If you don't get it, you still have your week to use. For Hyatt and Atlantis, it depends on when you want to go. Use similar strategies for the other options when needed or desired. That way if you don't get one this year you have next year to work on it again.
     

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