WDW Dining Changes - Any Conspiracy Theories Out There?

What makes less sense is that you had a 7:50 but they can't bump you to 8! Wouldn't you still have been using your table at 8, or did they think you would eat breakfast in 10 minutes? That puts the "fast" in breakfast. One more reason I'm glad I'm bringing power bars!
 
I recieved a call from a cm the other day telling me I could not keep my 750 breakfast Easter morning at 1900 park fare...They could not reschedule me for later because they are booked.

Care to explain that one with your demand theory, Scoop?
 
I don’t think anyone should really be surprised by this. After all, the parks (all of WDW especially) have a heavy burden put on them by the utter stupidity of the current regime. Failed Internet, ABC, Cable channels, rotten investments, golden parachutes, bonuses. You name it, WDW has to support it!! And in typical fashion they are killing the golden goose!!

Let me just point out a few important points that was in a recent post of the newest member of car #3!!
I don't believe that 1900 PF is operating in the read. Perhaps on a spreadsheet they found a smidge of red from the 7:30 to 8:00 hour.
Chip!
Far be it from me to take over for AV in the "don't manage by spreadsheets" category, but changing operating hours based on this type of analysis is a dangerous game.
Chip, chip.
You see, we are just as likely to skip the breakfast than we are to go at 8:00. You see, if we go at 8:00 we wouldn't make it to the MK by opening.
Chip, chip, chip!!!
With hours as short as they are we can't afford that.
Chip, chip and double chip!!
So, Disney may lose whatever revenue that was being generated between 7:30 and 8:00. People will either choose not to go, or won't be able to because of that defined capacity you mention. If PF was operating in the red before 8am they probably don't care about the lost revenue.
Chip, chip-ity, chip, chip - - chip, chip!!
However, there will be guests (how many I don't know - but I've seen a lot of people at PF between 7:30 and 8:00) that will care about a little piece of lost magic.
CHIP!!!
ps - I know, I know BaronMatt - but don't open the door just yet as I'm not ready to jump
Oh I don’t know! Maybe this is finally your last straw. Maybe your wall is now complete!! (mother, did it need to be so – high!)
 
Oh I don’t know! Maybe this is finally your last straw. Maybe your wall is now complete!!
Thought you'd appreciate my post Herr Baron. With......without..........and after all, it's what the fightings all about ;). I do have to say that being without my priority seatings has moved me closer to hitching a ride in your bus. Often I have been heard to say that the cuts, the changes, all this "stuff" hasn't had a significant impact on my family.......................maybe this one does. Is this my straw? No - but it is sad that I actually have to think for a few seconds before I provide that answer.

I'll tell you one thing, I may be tilting toward being a 'hit 'em in the wallet' person. We won't do PF at 8:00. Sure, we'll probably spend the money on some other Disney meal, but maybe not - maybe we'll stock up on a little more food in the villa this time around. Combine that with the fact that I'm not going to support the NYC MTA fare increases effective May 1 by driving as opposed to taking mass transit and I'll see how it really feels to fight back :). Hopefully I won't be biting off my nose to spite my face.
 


Thought you'd appreciate my post Herr Baron. With......without..........and after all, it's what the fightings all about
To be read in a Bill or Ted (as in excellent adventure) voice:

“Whoa! Totally excellent Floyd reference, dude!!”

Sure, we'll probably spend the money on some other Disney meal, but maybe not -
Nah! You will. I do. That’s the beauty of their system. It works!! It makes it very hard to logically argue the point. Because in the short-term it works quite well. They’ve got you (us) and they know it!! And even if they lose you, they figure they’ve got two or three just chompin’ at the bit to take your place, forking over as much as they demand.

Of course long-term that policy is a disaster. But something tells me they really don’t care about anything that is counted in years! Days, weeks and perhaps a quarter is the furthest they’ve ever thought or planned!!

Anyway, anytime you’re ready to make the leap…

… the car is warmed up and ready to go… Wish you were here!!
 
“Whoa! Totally excellent Floyd reference, dude!!”
Well, it does seem you must be playing a lot of Floyd in your car.........so maybe.

You know, with Disney lately, sometimes I just feel like........I don't know..............perhaps..................

...........when I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse (of what Disney was supposed to be) out of the corner of my eye. (But lately) I turned to look but it was gone. I cannot put my finger on it now, the child has grown, the dream is gone.......I.....I.....I.......I've become comfortably numb (to the changes and disappointments)..................
 
Originally posted by cindyfan
At least they are just shortening the hours and not cancelling them.....for now anyway.
We have PS at H & V for April. When I heard it was cancelling the breakfast and lunch....I called.
I was told that they would be calling the guests and offering another character meal such as Chef Mickeys or Cape May. But our plan was to be at MGM that day.
Anyway the CM felt strongly that this would be replaced with something else. Not sure how reliable she was????
So I just left my PS and said I would wait til they called me.

Hate to say it, but IMHO....yes!

What are the other rumored changes????
Am I understanding correctly that it's not just the breakfast but also the character lunch at H&V that is being cancelled ? Wasn't this the only character meal offered for lunch at MGM ? This past September we did lunch here and found it to be quite busy. Even with our ps for three we had a wait of 30 minutes or so to be seated. So I'm suprised this character meal is coming to an end.
 


".......................maybe this one does."

And so begins the journey from viewing Disney as a fan to seeing it as it really is.

I wrote in another thread (I think) that the hardest part about working in the movie business is understanding what one likes is separate from what may be good and the reserve (dislike is not the same as bad).

The same applies here. In just about any thread around here there will be people who claim that an action is required because "Disney is a business". Yet often times reading down through their postings it could be argued what they're really saying is "I don't use that perk, so I really don't care that it's gone".

But to really understand Disney Is A Business (I should file for the trademark), you have to see how the change affects that majority of guests, not just one's personal preference. I've never eaten a chicken finger in a Disney theme park and I couldn't care less if they serve two or a dozen, but I can certainly see where many people will see this move as a reduction in value received for their money. I think the 'Timekeeper' show is pedantic and uninteresting, but I understand how the loss of even bad attractions hurts a park's operations. I think the Contemporary observation deck is one of the worst places to watch the MK fireworks, but I know there are a lot of people who find it "magical".

The primary offering of any business is choice. Disney is bit by bit by bit removing choices: a half hour to eat breakfast here, a shop over there, a show closed today. Even if you could care less about the specific cut it should be very clear that reduced choices reduces the value to many others. If there are enough of those others then the business will be in serious trouble.
 
Even if you could care less about the specific cut it should be very clear that reduced choices reduces the value to many others. If there are enough of those others then the business will be in serious trouble.
I hear ya, AV ;). Thing is, even though I could care less about certain specific cuts, it has always been clear to me that the cuts reduce value to others and that Disney is about more than just me.

We can talk about two things around here.

One would be 'is this bad for Disney the business?' You know what, I think the answer to that question is no for just about all the things we kick around here. Why? Well, despite low attendance as of late, the people will come. Disney will make money. Disney will survive. That leads us to the second question.........

'Is this bad relative to Disney's history, and future, of being a unique, magical destination?'. Well, the answer to this one is a whole other story. Some things we talk about I'd say yes, some I'd say no. That's not just from a personal perspective, it really does consider impacts on other quests. Quite honestly, different people find unique magic in different things.

Alas, I do agree that Disney is narrowing the gap between themselves and all the others. That is unfortunate. However, it isn't enough for me to move to car #3 just yet. I'll tell you though, Disney is working on getting me there :(.
 
I think that AV is correct about the way the cuts impact each guest in different ways, and I believe that the accumulation of cuts can eventually have a severe impact on attendance. But it's not all of the cuts that bother me most.

Let's suppose that Ei$ner gets whacked by a hit man, hired by a mouse in dark sunglasses. :smooth: A new CEO is hired, who truly "GETS IT" in every Walt way. It appears to me that it would be relatively easy to re-institute many of the cuts. Put another chicken finger in the basket, open the restaurant an hour earlier, dust off the AA figures in the COP and push the start button. There. The cuts are gone. I realize that guest perception has been damaged. But the Disney that I know and love has been returned. Almost.

But...what is that new CEO going to do with Dinorama, or Paradise Pier. The truly un-Disney things that are being added to WDW/DL/DLP in concrete and steel. Oh sure, that CEO could bulldoze the whole thing and start over. But that's not quite as easy as taking a few tables out of the CG lounge.

At this point, I would actually prefer to see them stop adding new attractions until they can get a handle on this. Maybe MSpace and MPhilharmagic will change my mind. But I doubt it.
 
When Eisner took over Disney it was a (relatively) small company, and he lots of experienced help like Frank Wells, and long time Disney people like Dick Nunis. Now, most of those people have gone and Disney is a major conglomerate. Also, it's tapped out a lot of its potential withe video boom and the massive development at WDW. It's possible that Eisner is in over his head. It happens all the time.
 
Mr. Kidds!! Welcome to the dark side!!

We can talk about two things around here.
I think this is what gets me into trouble around here. And it explains perfectly my schizophrenic mind set when it comes to Disney! Anyone who’s read my scathing essays regarding the current Disney philosophy and then sees one of my State of the Parks Addresses would think I’m nuts!! But believe me, it is possible. Two examples to illustrate (seeing Chinatown would help, metaphorically):

There is a place in EPCOT (my beloved EPCOT) that is an aberration to me. It does not fit!! Philosophically it is a disaster!! When I think about this blemish to my favorite park I cringe!! I HATE it!!! And yet, when I’m there, I cannot resist it. Every time I pass that damned Ice Station I stop in for a cool one! I hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)…I think you get the picture!

Second is E-Ticket Night! It runs counter to every fiber in my philosophical being!! And yet, I cannot resist! Again… I hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)… hate it… (slap)… Love it… (slap)…

And there are a myriad of other issues which I could not care less about. HOWEVER!!! I try to see them in a big picture, philosophical context. And I judge them accordingly. One such is the Observation Deck, or the restaurants trimming hours. I think over the past twenty years I’ve used the observation deck, always on the spur of the moment, perhaps five times. Two of which were on the last trip in July. I think having almost a month there had something to with it. What spurred the issue on the other thread was that my wife, again on the spur of the moment as she just happened to be going to the contemporary at about that time for dinner, was denied access. And that just blew me away. Not personally. I happen to agree that it’s not the best place in the world for fireworks. I much prefer the Poly, on the beach, sipping a tropical drink. But philosophically!! I was OUTRAGED!!! Once again Disney, where choices should abound, were limiting choices once again!

As for trimming restaurant hours! Ha! I’m still a teenager at heart. I stay up way too late and sleep in every chance I get! 7:30 is just too early for your friendly neighborhood LandBaron!! I could not feel more apathetic about an issue if I tried!! But again, that’s only personally!! On a philosophical level this move reeks of UN-Magic and ANTI-Dust!!! And again, they are limiting choices and CRAMMING everyone into smaller time periods, insuring maximum guest discomfort, all for the sake of a couple of bucks!!

Now, you say they are two separate things that we discuss:
One would be 'is this bad for Disney the business?' You know what, I think the answer to that question is no for just about all the things we kick around here. Why? Well, despite low attendance as of late, the people will come. Disney will make money. Disney will survive. That leads us to the second question.........

'Is this bad relative to Disney's history, and future, of being a unique, magical destination?'. Well, the answer to this one is a whole other story. Some things we talk about I'd say yes, some I'd say no. That's not just from a personal perspective, it really does consider impacts on other quests. Quite honestly, different people find unique magic in different things.
I disagree! I think the two are inextricably woven together.

“Is it bad for Disney the business?” is very, very much the question in the context of it being a unique, magical destination. Yes. In the short term they can increase profits. Yes. They can generate momentary interest in a new addition. Yes. They can defer maintenance, make all the stores the same, cut out valet parking, split EPCOT into two parks and create dark days for the parks. And in the short term they will increase profits. But at the same time they are lowering the bar, diving to match their competition and creating long-term DISsatisfaction that will not only hurt the long-term bottom line, but may very well kill it!!

This, From Another Voice, sums up my view on the subject to a tee!!
The primary offering of any business is choice. Disney is bit by bit by bit removing choices: a half hour to eat breakfast here, a shop over there, a show closed today. Even if you could care less about the specific cut it should be very clear that reduced choices reduces the value to many others. If there are enough of those others then the business will be in serious trouble.
That’s all I’ve ever been trying to say here. Which is why I try to speak “philosophically” and NOT personally!!

But...what is that new CEO going to do with Dinorama, or Paradise Pier. The truly un-Disney things that are being added to WDW/DL/DLP in concrete and steel. Oh sure, that CEO could bulldoze the whole thing and start over. But that's not quite as easy as taking a few tables out of the CG lounge.
It’s OK! Baby steps. One thing at a time!! It took us eighteen years to get to this point. I suspect it will take us more than a few years to get back on the right path.

It's possible that Eisner is in over his head.
He’s been over his head since the easy answer of opening up the film library to video idea ran out of gas!! He is INEPT!! (sorry for the broken record refrain!!)

Again, Mr. Kidds!! WELCOME ABOARD!!!
 
In a small blurb in your last post you mention that sitting on the beach at Poly is a favorite place to view fireworks. I never knew about that spot but now I think I'll try it out and pass the word on the other boards.Soon, thousands of us seeking the magic will swarm to the Poly and infest the beach. What would you advise Poly management to do about this problem ?
 
What would you advise Poly management to do about this problem ?
Handle it with magic, creativity, pixie dust and an eye toward guest satisfaction and exceeding expectations which, out of all the companies in the world, only Disney knew how to do. I never said that everyone had to be happy with every little detail of every solution to every sticky problem. But we do need to be happy that in the grand scale of things, big picture wise and most importantly philosophically, they did it the “Disney” way.

I'm terribly afraid that if this happens under the current management they'll restrict access, block the view and sell tickets!! Hey!! For those willing to pay for it is MAGIC indeed!!!

And that is the 'philosophical' difference!
 
Great words,but REALLY, what do you do. As leader of the car 3's, one of those that "get it", what do you do? Let me add that this is not a sarcastic or loaded question.

Poly is only so large,beach so big. Your the manager and Mr Smith, whose paying $$$$$ to stay at Poly, just came to you complaining that six monorail trains loaded with AS resort guests have been ruining his resort experience every night down at the beach. How do you fix this without offending someone. And lets assume you would never consider charging admission to the beach. What are some practical solutions where no one gets cheated out of their magic ?
 
Great words, but REALLY, what do you do?
They are great words. And I’m really not trying to be evasive. But in all honesty, I’m NOT very creative! If you notice I never play the “What if” games around here. I don’t design monorail tracks. I don’t theme rides. I’m not particularly good at story telling.

I would have never thought up something as wonderful as the haunted mansion! I would have been stuck in the mindset of local Halloween haunted houses and never considered that an amusing story which wasn’t all that scary could be used! I would have NEVER thought little Christmas lights on a parade float could be sooooo captivating! And the concept of ‘fastpass’ would have eluded me forever! Maybe that’s why I’m such a sucker when it comes to Disney magic! Although I cannot create it, I recognize it, and appreciate it for what it is!!
As leader of the car 3's, one of those that "get it", what do you do? Let me add that this is not a sarcastic or loaded question.
I know you’re not trying to be sarcastic, but it is a loaded question. And as such I will give you my best answer!

Really, what I would do if I were head mouse (and not merely the driver for car #3)!?!? Let’s look at it!
How do you fix this without offending someone?
Well, I think that is your first mistake! You just may have to offend someone. As I said in the previous post,
“I never said that everyone had to be happy with every little detail of every solution to every sticky problem. But we do need to be happy that in the grand scale of things, big picture wise and most importantly philosophically, they did it the “Disney” way.”

And I mean that.

And let’s assume you would never consider charging admission to the beach. What are some practical solutions where no one gets cheated out of their magic?
Here’s the second mistake. Someone may be disappointed, but NO ONE will be ‘cheated’!!!

So, back the point. What would I do as CEO of Disney. Well…

I would throw the task to my creative problem solver, the man I hired within the first half hour of landing the job. That’s right, AV would charged with the responsibility of finding an equitable solution!! After all, that’s why I’m paying him the big bucks!!

And after he has set about drafting a plan he would take it to his associates, Sir Matt, Sir Larry and of course the resourceful and inventive Frozen One (who were also hired within the first hour)!! They would improve the plan and take it to our “pixie dusted” bean counter, Gcruling. He would growl about the cost but I would override him!! And then as you said in your heading…

… “magic, creativity, pixie dust” would truly thrive at the Poly!! As for the nuts and bolts… Hell!! I’m a perfect manager!! I delegate!! But with authority!!
 
I would throw the task to my creative problem solver, the man I hired within the first half hour of landing the job. That’s right, AV would charged with the responsibility of finding an equitable solution!! After all, that’s why I’m paying him the big bucks!!

Well unfortunately for us AV is not handling that department. But thank goodness the real key problem solvers were intuitive enough to cut back on the food so they could continue to reward themselves with those big bucks!

Less food and magic for the quests - more bonus money for the key players at Co headquarters. Sounds pretty equitable to me.

Oh and lets not forget how expensive our legal department has become over these past 35 years. I don't think Walt's initial model factored in the correct rate of inflation on litigation and insurance.

Yes you are feeling the effects of costs continually being pushed down to the consumer level. Why would Disney be impervious to this reality? Suppose the company did change control and reinstated many things which were once taken away. Are those in favor now willing to pay the extra money it will cost to maintain the mandated profit margins? The reality is, the top execs do not typically take the cut until the company is sunk. That means everyone else pays! You can wish all you want, dream away, and continue to believe in pixie dust but every time you visit reality bites!
 
Actually,no,it doesn't ! Despite all the negatives I read on this board, the World has NEVER disappointed me. I have great meals. I see great shows. I admire imacculate landscaping. I enjoy Spaceship Earth,World of Energy,TTA and all those other old, slow, boring to some, rides. Guess what,the new coaster in AK, it's fun. Just because it isn't in a three acre warehouse with the lights turned off doesn't mean it's not a fun ride. People can brag up US/IOA all they want...it aint even close to WDW.
 
Great post Mr. Viking. WDW is still what it is to most people and though detractors can discuss issues like attendance though this is still just a short term view. It takes years of statistics (not just one) to evaluate the realities and ramificatins of the trend.

As for PW at AK, my family agrees that this is just fun. We certainly hope the trend (toward the simplistic) stops but there is certainly room for all typs of entertainment and attractions (i.e., if the Mountain is ever built at AK, PW is just gravey).

As for your scenerio with the Poly, I know exactly here you're going and you are absolutey correct. When the situation becomes cumbersome at the Poly, Disney will have CM's checking Poly ID's to access this area. Others will be directed elsewhere, back to the MK perhaps. Some wll be unhappy but the guests of the Polynesian will be happier because of it.

The CG is a fantastic piece of WDW and happens to also be very lucrative. D-R did a GREAT job of exposing the problems (crowds, elevators & confusion) and Disney handled it absolutely properly. They closed the area so only those using the CG facilities had the privalage (after all the CG ledger is footing the bill for this space).

Lastly, please remember that this viewing point was never much more than happenstance or afterthought as evidenced by the utilitarian existence. When a planned perk is intended has Disney ever done this? This is really a non-event and a sign of nothing but good management at work and lets face it, with all of the apparant boneheaded decisions lately they should at least get credit for good problem solving when it's accomplished...
 
As for your scenerio with the Poly, I know exactly here you're going and you are absolutey correct. When the situation becomes cumbersome at the Poly, Disney will have CM's checking Poly ID's to access this area. Others will be directed elsewhere, back to the MK perhaps. Some wll be unhappy but the guests of the Polynesian will be happier because of it.
I feel anyone who patronizes the Poly should have access to the beach if they want. Dining and shopping all put money in the resort's pocket. I know, in the past, we have gone to the Luau or O'Hana's and afterwards, took a stroll down to the beach. The day that CM's start escorting guests like me off the beach will be the day they will lose alot of business from guests that enjoy a meal or shopping. I just hope it never gets to this point.
 

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