Vacations with Debt

[ccgirl]

Awesome. So your "punishment" is lower. But some pay more in interest, that's all I was saying.

If having credit card debt doesn't bother you or impede you in any way (best rates on car loans, home loans, etc.), then some will live decades with credit card debt and be perfectly happy. They know it's not ideal, but they live with it, slowly chipping away at it over many years, without hugely impacting their way of life.

LOL! I know. They sure do. I just was making the point (not to you specifically) that some people do have credit card debt but have it managed fairly well. I know I SHOULDN'T go on vacation until I have it taken care of, but I also think I'm a big girl and know what I'm doing.

I'd also be the first one to advise someone against getting a credit card. They are evil. But it is what it is.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

Just wanted to agree with the above quotes. I have credit card debt and I'm okay with it. I pay the interest and happily go on my WDW vacations. My credit score is fine. I have no problem getting car loans etc.

Yeah, I don't get that it's "okay" to have a mortgage, student loan(s) and one or two car payments, but not okay to have CC debt. DH and I have a modest mortgage and CC debt, and NO OTHER debt. No student loans and our cars are owned out-right. The CC debt is locked in at about 5% interest for the life of the debt.

To my mind, we are better off than someone with a hefty mortgage, a student loan (or two) and a car payment (or two), but many would consider us worse off, just because our debt is CC debt. The CC debt, btw, is a result of several large purchases that either could not be deferred until saved for, or we chose not to. It was not a result of living beyond on means on a monthly basis (eating out, movies, vacations, luxery items, etc.) but rather a mix of unexpected expenses and planned-for-one-time-only wants that we chose not to wait for (and I do it again, too). Could we have done it better? Eh, probably but the road we took doesn't lead to a dead end, either.

Anyway we just got back from a WDW trip that, in total, cost about $1600 (we used our tax return). Sure we could have used that to pay down the debt, but it only would have shaved off about 2 months off our CC repayment plan. And since the vacation resulted in a much wanted pregnancy (talk about your souvineers! ) it was money well spent!

CC debt can be a trap, it can be very expensive. But it can also be manageable and a useful tool when your temporary needs (and sometimes want, let's be honest) exceed your income. I don't recomend having CC debt as a way of life, just like I don't recommend having car payments as a way of life. But CC debt over a relatively short span of your life (5 to 10 years) doesn't have to be the end of the world either.

Yes. That is my point exactly. The person that has a $300,000 mortgage on a house that is worth $200,000 and no other debt is no better off than the person with a $200,000 mortgage on a $300,000 house and $30,000 in credit card debt. They are all debts. And, unless it is at 0% interest we are all paying a "penalty" to someone. One could debate that no vacations should be taken because every $ spent on vacation could be spent paying off the mortgage just as it could a credit card.

I guess it all comes down to comfort level.

 

[crisi]

OP here. I was really curious about the opinions because I do see alot of the DIS community saying that they do not believing in having any debt and yet they take many trips. Maybe much of the community is wealthier or just very conscientious but this seems bizarre since we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.

DH and I work really hard and plan to take a vacation every year if possible even while paying back debt that was accumulated do to circumstances out of our control and helping family (my mom). Basically Disney is probably $1000 more (with pin code) then another vacation but means a lot more to the kids and DH and I. However, because it is "Disney" it just seems like so much more elaborate then a beach or sixflags type vacation.

I am grateful for the opinions and suggestions I have received here because it has helped me be more dedicated to saving, paying off debt and making decisions about what is most important.

Obviously, I agree finances are personal but we all know that family, friend and coworkers often have opinions about them even when they no very little details

Thanks for the opinions and you all are welcome to continue arguing.

There are a lot of people here with many different circumstances - some of that is income related. Some of it is debt tolerance related. Some of that is "how much does Disney cost them" related. And some of it is "how much are their expenses in the rest of their life" related. Remember that someone driving down from Atlanta with two kids and owns a timeshare is very different than someone who has a family of six "Disney Adults" that needs to fly in from Seattle. That someone who has two professional incomes in a household is different than someone who has one blue collar income and one SAHP. That someone who inherited the house they live in from their parents in Missouri has a much smaller cost of living than someone who has a mortgage on a house in New Jersey.

I will always remember two women fondly from when I first joined this board. One had an armful of Disney trips in her signature. She took regular business trips to Orlando - her only expense was an Annual Pass, the rest of the trip was covered by her company. Single, no kids. The other went to Disney ever summer for over a month with her kids. They stayed at a KOA campground, shopped the local grocery stores, and packed in lunch every day. Looking only at signatures, without knowing the details, you get a very different picture of what was going on than what was actually going on. There are a lot of variables besides "income" and "debt."

As you said, its the details.

But the population of the DIS IS different than much of America. Much of America won't go to Disney once, much less multiple times - and if you aren't going to Disney, you aren't going to be on this board. And if you only go once, and didn't like it that much, we probably aren't hearing from you after your trip. So out of the gate, we've self selected for "middle class." And the population of the budget board is different than the population of the family board, or the community board, or the theme parks board. Here - in this corner of the DIS, the people who show up daily to talk tend to be those who are concerned with managing their budgets - they tend to be frugal and financially educated. That tends to be the case with a lot of internet boards that specialize in personal finance - the folks who frequent those boards have personal finance as a hobby - they don't tend to carry a lot of consumer debt (or if they do, they are on the finance board to get rid of it), and save money as a hobby.

 

[sk!mom]

we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.

Really? It doesn't seem odd to me at all. This is a board for people who like to vacation at an expensive destination so it stands to reason that it would be made up of people who can afford to vacation.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Yes. That is my point exactly. The person that has a $300,000 mortgage on a house that is worth $200,000 and no other debt is no better off than the person with a $200,000 mortgage on a $300,000 house and $30,000 in credit card debt. They are all debts. And, unless it is at 0% interest we are all paying a "penalty" to someone. One could debate that no vacations should be taken because every $ spent on vacation could be spent paying off the mortgage just as it could a credit card.

I guess it all comes down to comfort level.

And there are a LOT of folks right now who paid $300,000 for a home thats now only worth $200,000. Imagine that...a hundred grand - gone. BUT, they made wise financial decisions and saved and scrimped and done without so they could be in a position to buy that $300,000 home....so I guess its "ok", since they saved and all. I'm not relating that comment to anyone on these boards as I don't know anyone personally....but you get my point. Even those who save and make wise decisions to save can easily......EASILY lose thousands or hundreds of thousands. Your money isn't guaranteed in a bank lol. The FDIC can change its mind at the drop of a dime. In fact, it just happened a few years ago. Many, many people lost everything they had in the bank. People are losing their rears on housing.

Money can be taken away just as easy as it can be earned. People with money in the bank really are no better off than me because, just like with life....its not guaranteed. There is SUCH a false sense of security in money. Why? Why does it rule the minds of so many great people?

I have seen comments before from people who get tired of their tax dollars going to feed or shelter those who wont get the skills needed to get better jobs. Yet they won't look at themselves and see they never got the skills needed to EAT. Thank God for farmers. A welfare recipient would be lost without tax dollars paid from those who work. Many of those who work would be lost if Farmers didn't grow foods and ship to the local supermarkets for those wealthy folks to buy. The whole system works in a cycle and one couldn't survive without the other (Im not talking about abusing the system, just the system in general).

I can't help but to think of the 22 year old Formula One racing heiress who bought the Spelling Mansion for an undisclosed amount. It was listed for 150 million so Im sure the price wasn't too far off. She also has a 90 million dollar home in her home country. She is 22. She hasn't put in years of work for Formula One. She has or will inherit it. Can you imagine?

Can you imagine even more what just 1 million dollars could do for those families sitting in the I-92 hotels in Florida (as an example) who have lost their homes? The place where over half of the kids at one school are homeless. It sickens me that people spend money like this woman has, knowing she has the power to change the world.

And in the end, its all about.......money. Its not about their education, their skills, their abilities, their diversities, the simple fact that they are freaking human beings....its money. Such a pity, indeed.

 

[Disneyliscious]

Really? It doesn't seem odd to me at all. This is a board for people who like to vacation at an expensive destination so it stands to reason that it would be made up of people who can afford to vacation.

I totally agree!!! And having some debt doesn't mean they cant afford it!! Im glad we agree on something.

 

[GinnyEmma]

Wtheck does the rich girl have to do with anything? I was born with more than some and less than others. That doesn't make me a betternir worse human being. And everyone could do something better with their money. We née very little to survive. We aren't talking of survival here. Farmers are important. But so are the people who pay the taxes into the subsidies. It's nice that you can grow food. Other people have other skills necessary for society also.

 

[EKW]

Interesting how there seem to be those whose posts regularly raise dischord.

 

[nrpofp]

I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

There are seniors that are going to be dependent on the state even if they did save. A lot of people just don't make enough income.

 

[FayeW]

OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

BRAVO!

Never, in the decade I have been on these boards, have I read a post that I so heartily agreed with!

I have read posts from people who go on vacation, and then go bankrupt (or vice versa) and I have read posts from others who claim they would be ill, and/or never sleep at night if they owed even $500. I have read about people who wouldn't dream of taking a vacation if they owed any money, to anyone and others who have months and months of living expenses in an emergency fund, and their children's college funds fully funded.

Some people would be horrified at the idea of owing the $5000 in your scenario, while many others (myself included) would say "heck, if all I owed was $5K, I'd take TWO vacations!"

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Life is all about balance. You have to plan for the future, but you also have to enjoy the life you live today. If your budget allows you to comfortably manage your debt and enjoy some splurges from time to time, including a vacation, well, I say,have a great time, and we'll see you when you get back.

 

[walkdmc]

I think it's foolish. I'm not saying don't vacation, just don't go on a cruise to Greece, kwim? When DH and I were living paycheck to paycheck and had CC debt, we still took vacations but tried to spend less than a certain amount. The amount varied depending on our situation but it was always less than 1k. We went to Vegas once, for about $500 for a 3 night stay.

OP, if you check back..I meant my "foolish" comment in general. I know a family who had their electric turned off while they were at WDW, on vacation....seriously. We've all seen people make really bad financial decisions and I was referring to those extremes when I said it's "foolish".

 

[luvsJack]

To assume that someone who doesn't choose debt is somehow not "living" as well is a pretty big assumption.

As is the assumption that someone with debt isn't being responsible or "should" do things your (general you) way.

The fact is that there are happy mediums in everything. And its all about what is most important to YOU.

If I can continue paying on my debt and still go to WDW with dd while she is still young enough to want to go with "just Mom and Dad", I will choose to GO everytime. If I can pay my bills AND take my granddaughters on their first trip to WDW, I will choose the trip EVERY time. Sure we could go camping and it would be cheap, but do we want to? no. We go to the beach for a least one long weekend in the summer, per day its almost as expensive as Disney. We go to WDW every 2-3 years and with two beautiful dgd who are already asking for "MICKEY MOUSE" every time they visit--that is not going to change any time soon.

My debt may go up and down at different times, but the ages of my children and grandchildren are only going UP.

 

[nunzia]

I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

...again..b-a-l-a-n-c-e

Plus the OP never said the debt was CC...maybe it's a car loan or school loan...or something else. It really seems like folks hit extremes here quite often, but life is a balancing act and as I said in my earlier post, we did take trips we probably couldn't afford and my kids have great memories and are all Disney fans..would they have been scarred if we hadn't gone? Of course not..did we also do other family things that cost little or no money? Of course we did. It sounds like the OP has things under control and is not a willy nilly spender. And I think everyone also thinks people should have a good chunk of savings and not be a grasshopper living ONLY for today.
My perspective is of looking back..now I am making those memories with the grandkids..I also know too many who just lived dreaming for 'later' which never came.

 

[GinnyEmma]

There are seniors that are going to be dependent on the state even if they did save. A lot of people just don't make enough income.

True. But that doesn't change the issue. If they saved more than spent frivolously then they would be less dependent.

Eta: we aren't ones to assume that it is anyone elses job to care for us or ours. Must be the strong appalachian heritage. We just cut in different areas due to different priorities.

 

[GinnyEmma]

Lol, I am all for balance and have said so several times already. Go back and re read if you don't believe me, lol.

 

[crisi]

...again..b-a-l-a-n-c-e

Plus the OP never said the debt was CC...maybe it's a car loan or school loan...or something else. It really seems like folks hit extremes here quite often, but life is a balancing act and as I said in my earlier post, we did take trips we probably couldn't afford and my kids have great memories and are all Disney fans..would they have been scarred if we hadn't gone? Of course not..did we also do other family things that cost little or no money? Of course we did. It sounds like the OP has things under control and is not a willy nilly spender. And I think everyone also thinks people should have a good chunk of savings and not be a grasshopper living ONLY for today.
My perspective is of looking back..now I am making those memories with the grandkids..I also know too many who just lived dreaming for 'later' which never came.

Actually, the OP did specific CC debt, but she never specified this was a real situation, just a scenario that we were supposed to answer with what WE would do.

But yeah, balance is important. So is knowing your own tolerance.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

as is the assumption that someone with debt isn't being responsible or "should" do things your (general you) way.

The fact is that there are happy mediums in everything. And its all about what is most important to you.

If i can continue paying on my debt and still go to wdw with dd while she is still young enough to want to go with "just mom and dad", i will choose to go everytime. If i can pay my bills and take my granddaughters on their first trip to wdw, i will choose the trip every time. Sure we could go camping and it would be cheap, but do we want to? No. We go to the beach for a least one long weekend in the summer, per day its almost as expensive as disney. We go to wdw every 2-3 years and with two beautiful dgd who are already asking for "mickey mouse" every time they visit--that is not going to change any time soon.

My debt may go up and down at different times, but the ages of my children and grandchildren are only going up.

bravo!!!

 

[Boston Tea Party]

My favorite professor from my undergrad career and his wife retired and moved into their dream retirement home. Three months later she had a massive stroke and died.

I will have a pension, we have a 401K. We have debt. My kids get older every day - one is leaving next year for college - and not a one of us has the promise of tomorrow. My father died when he was 48; I will be 43 soon. I am planning for the future, but I am LIVING for TODAY.

Whatever you want to do, God bless you. I only ask the same courtesy from you.

 

[hsmamato2]

NO- and here is why-
I'm not knocking anyone down here...and as a pp said,I'm not wealthy,or perfect..etc etc But I spent some time today with my 11 yo child,who asked me the difference between a credit card and a debit card. (or bank account) since I wanted him to understand what a cc is,I explained things this way.
Say I have a cc- and on Jan. 1st,I buy a big screen tv with the card. Now, using that card,is like a loan from citibank,and it comes due in ONE MONTH. So,it's not my money I'm using,I'm borrowing from them,see?
on Feb. 1st,the bill arrives and is due- however,I only have 600.00- so I pay them that. (so happy for them!) NOW I still owe them 400.00....and here we go with a finance charge....if it's 10%,I now owe 440.00....
(trying make simple explanation)
On Feb 29,I buy a surround sound system for 1000.00 to match my tv.
On March 1st, the bill is due,loan SHOULD be paid off. HOWEVER,I only have 800.00 this month- so,I owe 1440.00,and pay 800.00...which leaves a balance of 640.00....at 10% in. it is now 704.00....
*question to child- am I using my own money here?
child says "NO!"
B/C it's not mine,it's a loan,and if I am borrowing more than I can pay off IN FULL in 30 days,then I HAVE NO EXTRA.doesn't matter how I allocate/stash more cash,I can't pay off my current loan.

Is it wise to do this? I think my 11 yo got the right answer really quickly.
Do people do it anyway? ALL the time!
and that's why I vote 'no' to the OP's question,I wouldn't.
From a SAHM parent,single income home,just ordinary working folks

 

[Planogirl]

Credit card debt isn't necessarily just from tv's and such things. It can also be from emergency repairs or medical bills. I know, I know... That's what emergency savings are for. Sometimes things happen and you can blow through that.

None of that is relevant though. The most important point IMO is that it's no one's business how a person spends their money or whether they have credit card debt or whatever. As long as they pay their bills and don't bother anyone else, they can choose to have any debt they wish.

 

[SaraJayne]

Thousands in the bank or thousands in equity. Not much different. I think there is a balance to it all. Either way, you have a plan to take care of yourself in the future. I do agree that knowing how to survive is a good thing.

As far as the people who choose debt free and vacation, some of us are older and I figure that at least a few are like me and made dumb choices out of college and feel fervently because of the price we paid. Experience personal and professional has taught me to treasure people but to express it with common sense. Priorities are funny too. I take travel as a priority. I know others who love jewelry or electronics. My fun money all goes to travel, and books.

I agree balance is the key.