TOT and Coaster announced for TDS

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by SpaceMountain_uk, Mar 13, 2003.

  1. SpaceMountain_uk

    SpaceMountain_uk Mouseketeer

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  3. SpaceMountain_uk

    SpaceMountain_uk Mouseketeer

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    heres a BIG version of the concept art, looks really cool!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. wtg2000

    wtg2000 DIS Veteran

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    Thanks. I'm a major TDS fan, having visited for several days in Oct/Nov 2001. This takes an amazing park and makes it even better.

    TOT was in the original model for the park, and LRD does need another attraction as the fastpass overflow for Indy creates a bit of a logjam.

    I can hardly wait to go back!
     
  5. larworth

    larworth DIS Veteran

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    The addition of a ToT would not be a surprise. Seems like this has been a rumored addtion for sometime. While the architecture shown is closer in style to WDW, can someone tell by the ante buildings if the DCA or WDW layout (with or without 5th dimension room) is being depicted here? The replication economics must be pretty great for OLC to build the DCA version.

    Wish there had been some concept art for the coaster based attraction. Curious if this is another clone (RnR, Indy at DLP) or if it is a new design?
     
  6. SpaceMountain_uk

    SpaceMountain_uk Mouseketeer

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    by the looks of things the 5th dimension room will not be used here either

    the WDW tower is sandwhiched between two extra buildings, the building in the back of the tower where this show element takes place, and the building in the front area.

    As you can see from the concept art there is only 1 additional building added to the front, just like DCA.

    The architecture looks alot better on this one than any of the others, LOVE those huge smashed windows, instead of elevator doors!!!
     
  7. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/" targ DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    I admit that the art looks good, but does smashed windows make sense here? Is the story the same as TOT @ WDW? If it is, why would service elevators be placed next to large arched windows?
     
  8. d-r

    d-r <font color=red>l|ll|||ll||ll||<font color=purple>

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    Actually, I think this will really help TDS.

    I've noticed folks referring to DAK and maybe other parks too, as 1/2 day parks. I think that TDS is really a 1/2 day park, but it is so crowded you end up staying more than 1/2 day. When I visited, I would have probably left by 2 if the park had been at wdw; instead it was in Tokyo, and it is harder for me to get to, so I took a deep breath and stayed longer. These two things will really help, and are consistent with that model that we have sort of become accostomed to, even though we probably don't like it, of opening a park and expanding it a couple of years later. Now if they can just get the DAK expansion going - dinorama didn't really cut it.
     
  9. wtg2000

    wtg2000 DIS Veteran

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    Sorry, but I really have to disagree with this. Compare line-ups.

    DAK has three shows (Tarzan, Lion King, bird show)
    TDS has three shows (Broadway, Mystic, Mermaid - that's over an hour just of show time.)

    DAK has Dinosaur
    TDS has Indy Jones

    DAK has Bug's Life
    TDS has Aladdin show

    DAK has Safari
    TDS has 20,000 (best comparison)

    DAK has Kali
    TDS has Stormrider

    DAK has the trails
    TDS has Fortress Exploration (I spent an hour in there)

    Beyond this, TDS has the gondola, all of Mermaid Lagoon, the carousel, Aquatopia, Sindbad, Journey, not to mention the day and night time shows. There's also the boat ride (which DAK dropped) and the transit steamer, and just so many terrific places to walk around and see.

    I guess DAK also has the Dino area which I haven't seen yet.

    I spent more than four days at TDS and had to be dragged out of there. For an opening day park it had more to do than I've ever seen. You're right though, crowds do have an impact. When I visited IOA I did leave about 3pm after having ridden Spiderman five times and Dueling Dragons five or six times. I was getting dizzy! Crowds were zero.

    With no crowds, I could blow through any MK pretty quickly too. TDS has more re-ride attractions for me than any other park, and certainly more quality rides and shows than any park (not to mention all the awesome eateries). And to think it could get better.
     
  10. d-r

    d-r <font color=red>l|ll|||ll||ll||<font color=purple>

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    I disagree with you, because I said "I think." :)

    I was on Tokyo for business primarily, and so I wasn't staying at one of the on-site hotels. But the hotel I was at did happen to be a good nieghbor hotel, with a free shuttle bus, which left at 6:30. So I was at the gate with a ticket about 7:10, with the park opening at 8.

    When it opened, I walked (unlike my Japanese compatriots) to Journey to the Center of the Earth; it was about 10 minutes stand-by wait when I got there. After that, I got a fast-pass with a 10 O'clock return to 20K leagues. During that time, I rode Sinbad, which still had a short line, and Storm Rider, which was still only about a 45 minute stand-by line, because most people were in the Chaldea. Then I rode 20K leagues, and got a fast-pass for Indiana Jones with a 1:00 return. During those three hours, I walked through the shops in Mediterreanean Harbor, the Fortress Exploration, ate lunch at Vulcania around 11:30. Around 12, my fast-pass two-hour window was up, and I got one for Magic Lamp. Then I walked through Mermaid Lagoon (now I didn't ride the kiddie rides here. Just as I wouldn't wait for Dumbo on a busy Disneyland day, I didn't wait for the kelp cups or balloon race or jelly fish. If you have kids, YMMV here of course), and returned to Indiana about 1:00, but it was broken down. The park was starting to get really crowded now. I was really glad that I ate at 11:30. By now fast passes were gone for the day for 20K leagues and Journey, and the standby lines were worse than the sausage bun line. With Indiana down, I walked back through discoveryland, and into Cape Cod and America Land, and looked around there for a while. About 2, I thought about going to the Teddy Roosevelt Lounge and having a beer, basically because this is what I would have done if I was in wdw and it was this busy. But the Teddy Roosevelt lounge isn't a lounge in the sense that we are used to (see the Contemporary deck thread) it was a restaurant, with a line out of it and stretching out of the ship. But I got to look around the ship this way.

    At this point, if I had been at disneyland CA or WDW, I would have left. There is no question in my mind about that. I almost left anyway, and I spent about an hour sitting and watching the aquasphere talking myself out of it. To me, that is as much of a 1/2 day park as anything in WDW, because it was 1/2 day (2:00)and I was ready to go. I talked myself out of it, because I don't get to Japan every day.

    I walked around and looked in more stores and stuff. I watched the afternoon water pagent thing which was amazingly goofy. After that, I thought about the Encore show, but after the water thing I wasn't too sure about it. I was standing there looking at the line, and I thought "I can wait here an hour until the next show and watch Japanese intrepretations of scenes from Broadway musicals, or I can go outside the park, call a cab, and go to a Japanese dentist." I'm sure the show is very good, but I was pretty sure it wasn't my thing, so I didn't wait to see that.

    I wondered around until about 6, watching people. So from 2-6 I really didn't do anything. I guess I "walked around and explored" the same things over and over. I had dinner, went back to Indiana Jones, I had picked up a fast pass for little mermaid show which I watched at about 7. Then I went back to Arabian Coast and Magic Lamp Theatre and waited standby until about 9, then I rode Aquatopia (I'm so glad I waited until almost closing when the line died down on this instead of waiting for a few hours, it is pretty lame).

    The only thing I didn't do were the kiddie rides, and the "transportation" rides. I don't ride main street vehicles in wdw or disneyland. The transit steamers had long lines at each station, were packed, and only go from station to station until you get off. This seemed more punishment than fun to me, and I declined. Same with the trolly, which goes from America to port discovery. Though I did sit underneath it for a while in a quieter place, and I did watch the transit steamer boats for quite a bit. This is my opinion, but these aren't much of rides - the reason they took those boats out of DAK was because they were packed, long waits, and just went from one station to another - just like the ones at TDS. In America, people would complain. For me, I had been on enough crowded Japanese public transportation already.

    With the crowd levels, it could easily take a whole day to do everything.

    I would compare like this:
    Indiana Jones > Dinosaur
    Safari > Journey
    20k leagues = Kali
    Shows = shows (without seeing encore, so fwiw)
    stormrider >= trails: pangoni and asia and prehistoric trails (both simulated experiences. As far as time, it would take much longer to do the trails than stormrider. As far as simulated experiences, neither set is very convincing. Both are fun though).
    primeval whirl = aquatopia
    conservation station, camp minnie mickey, dig site= mermaid lagoon exploration and fortress exploration
    mermaid lagoon kiddie rides > triceretop spin (big tds win here)
    Tough to be a bug > alladin
    tree of life > aquasphere
    train ride = electric trolly
    There was only the day time show the day I was there (a Saturday), which would = the mickey jungle parade

    I don't know about evening show, there wasn't one.

    cool places to walk around and explore (other wise known as big honking empty places with nothing to do:) = cool places to walk around and explore

    Gondola wasn't operating while I was there so I don't know.

    TDS has Sinbad, and DAK doesn't have a dark ride, so TDS wins here.

    But you are right, since DAK dropped the boats, TDS has that, and DAK doesn't have a carousel. It seems like a lot of people consider DAK a 1/2 day park, so I'm not sure that boats and a carousel would go from a 1/2 day park to a whole day; would adding a kiddie land like a bug's land, a dark ride (along the lines of a more modern version of its a small world) and a carousel, and re-opening the boats "fix" DAK to a whole day park? Would those additions satisfy folks? If so, I guess they can do it much more cost effectively than I thought, and I guess they can go ahead and scrap those e-ticket plans :(

    Just as something like beastly kingdom or forbidden mt. would help DAK fill out, a roller coaster and TOT would help TDS fill out. That was my point. I only wish that they would announce two e-tickets for DAK :( They really need an attraction in American Waterfront, and a second e-ticket in river delta could really help balance out that land with the other lands. There is a big loop of walkway to nowhere, on the other side of Indiana Jones, so I'm guessing they will add it to this area.

    I'm glad that they announced these for TDS because this gives me a reason to come back in a few years. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't.

    DR
     
  11. wtg2000

    wtg2000 DIS Veteran

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    The Transit Steamer at TDS is used as transportation to get from the front of the park to LRD, and vice versa. It's also a very scenic ride giving a different perspective on the approach to LRD, and especially going right through the volcano. I never had the opportunity to ride the one in DAK but it didn't seem to go anywhere or have anything on it to see.

    It's too bad you missed Mystic Rhythms. I saw this several times and consider it my favourite Disney stage show. ENCORE was also excellent, the theatre itself worth seeing.

    There was a nighttime show on the lagoon with the volcano spewing and doing other stuff. I'm not sure if it's gone or re-tooling.

    Well, I can't argue with you there. If you're ready to go, then you're ready to go. I guess if someone was ready to go at noon, then to them it would be a 1/3 day park. I guess for me it was a 4-day park! :)
     
  12. d-r

    d-r <font color=red>l|ll|||ll||ll||<font color=purple>

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    HI wtg2000,
    I can't argue with you, either, and I'm not trying!

    Remember that everytime that people say that DAK is a 1/2 day park, there is someone who loves it so much they say that they can spend days just walking around and looking at the scenary. My point was never that TDS is a bad park - it is a great park! I think that the two e-tickets will help it though, and that it can use them (and DAK sure could). That's why I was saying if DAK was 1/2 day, then TDS is, too. They are both beautiful and fun parks.

    The boats that were at DAK were used as transportation from one point to another, too. They did have scenary, in fact a few things (previewing the never-to-arrive Beastly Kingdom) that were viewable only from the boat. They played around with ways to try to make it more entertaining, including a "broadcast" of radio disney "from the tree of life," and bringing on animal exhibits and handlers. It just never caught on. People didn't realize that it was for transportaton from one side of the park to the other, and it was so crowded and busy they got upset when they learned it. That's why I don't think the transit steamers would go over with Americans - they are crowded and busy, just like the DAK boats were. It was easier for DAK to just get rid of them than to deal with all the guest complaints.

    I know that the boats would be a fun way to get around, but the lines were so long - do you understand what I mean about already being on enough crowded transportation so that it didn't seem like it would be fun?

    I probably should have went to the show, I just couldn't do it.

    DR
     
  13. mjstaceyuofm

    mjstaceyuofm Mouseketeer

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    D-R, Thank you for the comparison. It was extremely enlightening for those of us who have absolutely no desire to vacation on the other side of the planet, but are also Disney fans.

    It's nice to know that it is a nice park, but nothing you described would make me spend however much $ it would take to vacation over there. (plane tix, passport, lodging, park tickets, etc.... I'd imagine it'd be a hefty cost to vacation in Tokyo for a week...)

    Thanks.

    One last thing though... Maybe I didn't catch it in your posts, but how did the "atmosphere" compare with the likes of WDW's MK, MGM, DAK, and Epcot? Similar, better, worse???
     
  14. All Aboard

    All Aboard Por favor mantengan se alejado de las puertas

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    DR, I'm very interested in your take of the theming. From what I read, seems folks should by awestruck by the detail. I'd like to read your reaction.

    The Japanese folks seem to have no problem with the huge queues and the apparent shortage of attractions compared to crowd levels. Despite this fact, OLC is adding two e-tix. Seems the motivation is to keep guest satisfaction as high as possible. That's excellent.
     
  15. wtg2000

    wtg2000 DIS Veteran

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    New things tend to draw crowds. I remember lining up for miles to ride Disneyland's Indy Jones, and new rides at WDW also get long, long lines. People realize that they are going to have to line up when something is new. I don't think it's endemic to the Japanese.

    I also don't think there's really a shortage of attractions compared to crowd levels - at least not anything out of the ordinary. I didn't find the lines any worse than past years at WDW over Chirstmas or Easter.

    As for TDS itself - I was completely awestruck by the park. The detail is amazing and there are tons of wonderful nooks and crannies to explore. Standing in Med Harbor gazing up at Mt. Promethus is perhaps the coolest site in any Disney park, except for maybe standing inside the volcano itself - with people screaming on Journey, steam pouring off the caldera, the transit steamer whistle blowing, geysers shooting up from the water. For me, the park had more atmosphere than any Disney park, which each section setting a distinct mood, from the chaos of the volcano to the serentiy of the New England village.

    Just getting to Journey and 20,000 is great fun and I almost enjoyed lining up. There's so much more to say but not enough time.

    By comparison, I found the new Walt Disney Studios in Paris to be an embarrassment - but that's another story.

    (by the way - I've been to every Disney except DCA)
     
  16. All Aboard

    All Aboard Por favor mantengan se alejado de las puertas

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    Scoop, it's just my own logic connection. I read many reports and stories of very long queues at the Tokyo parks, even the story about the sausage cart.

    What I was trying to say was that it seems that the park is hugely popular and has no problem attracting guests right now. And, from what I've read, the folks don't seem to be discouraged by the huge queus. So, the cost conscious manager would likely opt to reap the benefits. Yet, they are actually adding two e-tix.

    Is this in response to the notion that perhaps the guests will, in fact, get fed up with the queues? Or, perhaps they think that they can actually cram even more guests in the park with new attractions? Or, is it some other thought pattern?
     
  17. larworth

    larworth DIS Veteran

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    I was a little taken aback by the reported cost for these two projects

    ToT @ $180 million
    Spinning Coaster @ $70 million

    I thought the DCA version was going to come in somewhere in the $75-100 million range. Maybe they include more site preparation costs in their numbers. Or they are putting in some really nice extras??

    At this price the spinning coaster attraction clearly won't be a clone of Primeval Whirl. Could there be any similarity with the FM project for DAK. I don't think I've ever heard anybody mention spinning when talking FM? I'm really curious now to see what they have in mind!
     
  18. ChrisFL

    ChrisFL Disney/Universal Fan and MALE

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    I recall watching either the TDS or the Universal show in Japan they had on the Travel channel, where they showed the thousands of guests standing outside the gates before opening.

    So, the employees opened the gates, but didn't tell the guests to come in, everyone stood there quite patiently, and they all went in very gradually, no pushing, etc.

    So, in that respect it seems that they're much calmer than us when it comes to waiting around.
     
  19. SpaceMountain_uk

    SpaceMountain_uk Mouseketeer

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    by the looks of things the TDS tower is alot more elaborately designed than the DCA version, therefore costs will be much higher. also i dont think it will be the hollywood tower hotel, as there is nothing showing the HTH logo on the building, i think they may get a new storyline.
     
  20. Another Voice

    Another Voice Charter Member of The Element

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    The lines and other issues at DisneySea are exactly the same issues that occurred at Tokyo Disneyland when it first opened decades ago. It has nothing to do with differences in taste or expectations – and absolutely nothing to do with the lame "different market" canard to explain away why DisneySea is successful and California Adventure failed.

    Trying to avoid being insensitive, it's really an issue about how the Japanese and American cultures view waiting and dealing with the unknown. Crowds are a fact of life in Japan and have been for a century. One trip through the subway in Tokyo shows that many there will daily accept conditions that Americans would find intolerable for even a few minutes. The New York City subway can get busy, but it has never employed stuffers to cram people on the trains. Certainly waiting an hour for a sausage bun seems nothing to a not-untypical three hour daily commute into Tokyo. In the U.S., someone who waits three seconds after the light turns green is likely to get an SUV up their bumper.

    Second was something found right off at Tokyo Disneyland. A long line is taken to be an indication that something is popular, which is the same as saying something is good. For many years after opening 'Dumbo' was an immensely popular ride at TDL (often with lines over 3 hours). For a while there were plans to build a second or a double decked 'Dumbo' ride to handle the crowds. It's a cultural difference – a crowd will deter an American from waiting in line because we hate delays and lots of people; there is no stigma attached to a long wait in Japan and it's even seen as a positive sign.

    At TDL there were other issues related to what was politely called "openness". Americans, by and large, tend to be more adventurous than others and will eagerly run into a building without having any knowledge about what the ride is. In Japan, however, the most popular rides started out as the ones that could be seen from the outside or that could be amply explained to the guests before they decided to ride the attraction. Early on it was even difficult to get people into 'It's A Small World'. Over the years, of course, the returning guests to TDL have become familiar with the attractions and the traffic patterns are similar to the stateside parks.

    DisneySea, however, came complete with a whole new constellation of attractions and the same pattern developed. Those rides with exterior elements are the most popular, those mostly that were hidden struggle somewhat. But educating the guests and a couple decades experience and trust with Disney theme parks have softened the problems at DisneySea from what they were at Tokyo Disneyland.

    All of these differences are simply in how guests view the parks. There are very few differences about why the guests go to the park in the first place. The same shows that are popular here tend to be popular over there (Japan remains the number one overseas market for American movies). Just because they line up for twenty minutes to buy sweetened popcorn doesn't mean California Adventure would have worked over there, or DisneySea would have been a flop here.


    P.S. Hmm.... perhpas the reason the "spinning coaster" is so "cheap" is because Disney is getting a volume discount...

    And the Tower of Terror in Tokyo will be themed to New York. There's nothing "Hollywood" about the ride in the first place. There are "rumors" of additional Fifth Dimension room effects in Tokyo (perhaps explaining some of the additional costs).
     
  21. Judy from Boise

    Judy from Boise <font color=teal>Watch out – might take away your Moderator

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    Lots of interesting points ! When I was at TDS I spent a few hours being "blown away ".
    These correlated with the time I spent watching the fabulous shows.......to wandering the park basicly wondering
    "Where's the beef ? "....
    this was when I was circulating the park for the 4th time looking for something to do that didn't involve a 60-90 minute wait !
    The park will be immensely improved by two new rides that will disperse the crowds a bit.
     

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