The UNBIASED Beer and Wine in the MK POLL

[alh921]

I love the traditional elements of the Disney parks, too, but Walt Disney made these statements people are quoting half a century ago. There is no possible way for anybody to know how Walt would have felt today regarding the update. I think people will calm down about this decision pretty quickly and I don't think there will be any noticeable difference in the park at all.

 

[rachel09985]

I think that it is fine but only beer and wine, not hard alcohol. I guess it could be served at all dinner establishments but definitely not carts.

Also, I am not sure if you know this but states already have laws about the number of drinks to serve guests at a restaurant. Do you mean you want to restrict this even further? I don't agree with restricting it even further.

 

[Tanyabeth8]

Exactly alh921

 

[gwynne]

I think you're missing the key element of the quote, its not the alcohol he was against, it was the riff raff. People spending big bucks at a fancy french restaurant aren't the ones he was worried about. If Casey's started selling beers with the hot dogs I think you would have a point.

Of course, the point of Club 33 in Disneyland was to make it exclusive, (dare I say-non-riff raff)....So I guess one might conclude that upper crusters should be allowed a drink, but the potential riff raff...certainly not!
I think WDW in 2012 is on the right track. The protests are much ado about nothing. I'm certain Disney has all their surveys, and there are plenty of guests who have said they would enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Maybe today's Disney sees guests as guests, and not potential riff raff.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Of course, the point of Club 33 in Disneyland was to make it exclusive, (dare I say-non-riff raff)....So I guess one might conclude that upper crusters should be allowed a drink, but the potential riff raff...certainly not!
I think WDW in 2012 is on the right track. The protests are much ado about nothing. I'm certain Disney has all their surveys, and there are plenty of guests who have said they would enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Maybe today's Disney sees guests as guests, and not potential riff raff.

I love this post. Having a ton of money doesn't make someone immune to being an obnoxious drunkard, just like ordering a glass of wine or a beer with dinner won't necessarily turn someone into a vulgar, sloppy mess.

 

[raidermatt]

And I don't think anyone on this site knows what Walt would have wanted so you sound like an idiot claiming to know what a man who died long before I was even born whom I'm sure you did not know personally would want.

Actually, when it comes to this subject, it's very easy to know exactly what he wanted. All you have to do is research it. You may think he was wrong, but there is no question about what he wanted.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I think it's beyond naive to think that having a ban on alcohol in MK decreases or eliminates alcohol issues in the park. MK may be a dry park right now, but all I have to do is head out to one of the resorts on the monorail loop and there you have it- full bars. And it's been this way for years...and anyone who thinks otherwise is just denying the long term reality of how people have handled the cocktail/drink situation with MK for ages.

So let's see...I can walk to the Contemporary in under 10 min, grab a few drinks and then head back to MK once I'm done- and the walk is short enough that it's really no different than walking between points in MK. Sure, I didn't drink those drinks in the park, but the end result is the same ...so there's really no difference.

In fact, it's pretty darn easy to drink your way around the world at Epcot and then catch a monorail to get to MK. So, a little more transportation time, but still the same end result.

As for bringing Walt into it...you're quoting things from a VERY different day and age. On top of that, people are treating this like Bourbon Street is being added to the MK...i.e. grossly blowing this out of proportion. We are talking about beer and wine to enhance the food offered at a new restaurant. Even Walt grasped that proper drinks - alcoholic drinks- enhanced a meal. I know people like to invoke the whole WHAT WOULD WALT DO, but at some point you have to step back and think that Walt might have used some common sense here and said, "It would be foolish to offer such a nice meal, yet fail to provide a full dining experience by withholding the proper drink pairings." If anything- adding drinks to the meal PLUSSES the experience.

I get that the fear is drunk and rowdy guests, but seriously people- you are more likely to have an issue with someone who had a few too many Lapu Lapu's over at the Poly over the person who had a beer or glass of wine with their meal at BoG.

 

[raidermatt]

I think you're missing the key element of the quote, its not the alcohol he was against, it was the riff raff. People spending big bucks at a fancy french restaurant aren't the ones he was worried about. If Casey's started selling beers with the hot dogs I think you would have a point.

I think you are seriously over-estimating the difference in clientele there will be between BoG and the rest of the MK riff raff. What's more, "riff raff" is not necessarily tied to economics. Rich people get drunk too.

Epcot already has a fancy French restaurant and I don't hear anyone saying the guests there are of a "higher class" than the rest of the crowd. Especially since the dining plan took hold.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Actually, when it comes to this subject, it's very easy to know exactly what he wanted. All you have to do is research it. You may think he was wrong, but there is no question about what he wanted.

We all know what he said, which many of you use as proof of "what he wanted". However, you keep forgetting why he wanted it, and whether his viewpoint might have changed half a century later given the ways that society has changed. The world was a different place then, and Walt's views (many of which were inappropriate by today's standards) changed throughout the course of his lifetime. Who knows what he would actually think now? No one.

 

[gwynne]

But he also built Club 33 in Disney Land where, if a member, you can drink and then head right back to Peter Pans Magic Flight.

I totally agree! The really funny thing about all this "controversy" is that I think the majority of DISers would absolutely jump at the chance to eat (and drink )at Club 33 if given the opportunity. Kinda ironic, if you ask me.
Yea, it's a private club...but it's still right smack dab in the middle of Disneyland.

 

[raidermatt]

I think it's beyond naive to think that having a ban on alcohol in MK decreases or eliminates alcohol issues in the park. MK may be a dry park right now, but all I have to do is head out to one of the resorts on the monorail loop and there you have it- full bars. And it's been this way for years...and anyone who thinks otherwise is just denying the long term reality of how people have handled the cocktail/drink situation with MK for ages.

So let's see...I can walk to the Contemporary in under 10 min, grab a few drinks and then head back to MK once I'm done- and the walk is short enough that it's really no different than walking between points in MK. Sure, I didn't drink those drinks in the park, but the end result is the same ...so there's really no difference.

In fact, it's pretty darn easy to drink your way around the world at Epcot and then catch a monorail to get to MK. So, a little more transportation time, but still the same end result.

As for bringing Walt into it...you're quoting things from a VERY different day and age. On top of that, people are treating this like Bourbon Street is being added to the MK...i.e. grossly blowing this out of proportion. We are talking about beer and wine to enhance the food offered at a new restaurant. Even Walt grasped that proper drinks - alcoholic drinks- enhanced a meal. I know people like to invoke the whole WHAT WOULD WALT DO, but at some point you have to step back and think that Walt might have used some common sense here and said, "It would be foolish to offer such a nice meal, yet fail to provide a full dining experience by withholding the proper drink pairings." If anything- adding drinks to the meal PLUSSES the experience.

I get that the fear is drunk and rowdy guests, but seriously people- you are more likely to have an issue with someone who had a few too many Lapu Lapu's over at the Poly over the person who had a beer or glass of wine with their meal at BoG.

There is no way providing easier access to alcohol won't increase it's usage. I'm sorry, but you are seriously reaching with that one. When you take away that 10 minute walk each way, plus the walk from wherever the person is in MK to the front gate, PLUS not having to go through security and the turnstiles again, plus the walk back to wherever in the park they want to go, that's going to make a difference.

As for it being a very different day and age, sure it is. But the effects of alcohol have not changed. As for whether we'll have more trouble with people at the Poly or outside BoG, nobody knows that for sure. What we do know is that the MK was the one single place that we knew it would never be a problem.

Speculating that Walt would have changed his mind for some reason is baseless. There is no amibiguity in his words. He is very clear. Again, you can think him an idiot for thinking that way, but there is no doubt about what he wanted.

 

[raidermatt]

But he also built Club 33 in Disney Land where, if a member, you can drink and then head right back to Peter Pans Magic Flight.

Club 33 was designed by him to be a place primarily for corporate sponsers. That is very different from BoG, which takes things to a very different level.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

There is no way providing easier access to alcohol won't increase it's usage. I'm sorry, but you are seriously reaching with that one. When you take away that 10 minute walk each way, plus the walk from wherever the person is in MK to the front gate, PLUS not having to go through security and the turnstiles again, plus the walk back to wherever in the park they want to go, that's going to make a difference.

As for it being a very different day and age, sure it is. But the effects of alcohol have not changed. As for whether we'll have more trouble with people at the Poly or outside BoG, nobody knows that for sure. What we do know is that the MK was the one single place that we knew it would never be a problem.

Speculating that Walt would have changed his mind for some reason is baseless. There is no amibiguity in his words. He is very clear. Again, you can think him an idiot for thinking that way, but there is no doubt about what he wanted.

Strongly disagree. I've been out there enough times at Wishes and MSEP next to people who clearly had more than just a few at dinner. Sure, they have to get past security to get into MK, but this isn't like being pulled over for a DUI stop by a police officer. If someone were falling down drunk it would be a different story- but the same holds true with that in all of the parks. The reality is that there are people all around you in MK who stopped for some drinks along the monorail loop and just b/c you've never noticed or like to be blissfully unaware doesn't mean it doesn't go on. I lived in FL for 7 years ... and this was back in the 90s ... and I can say for certain that it is more common than you clearly have imagined for people to come into MK under the influence. Nothing new- just a reality I guess some people are now waking up to.

As for the Walt portion, what he said was clear, but it was 50 years ago. You have ZERO way of knowing what he'd think or feel if he were seeing the parks in this day and age. To assume he'd have the same exact feelings right now is baseless, but the reality is that people's viewpoints tend to change as time progresses. So, logic would imply that Walt would at the very least be faced with some choices as the rest of the world changed around him. You can believe that Walt's beliefs would have stood still with time, but nobody has any way of knowing this.

Still, I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. We're talking about beer and wine during dinner...not bottomless hurricanes on Bourbon Street. Seriously- put it into perspective.

 

[raidermatt]

One would expect the traditionalists to be over-represented on a board like this. Even so, they are getting creamed.

And of course, the majority is always right.

Actually, most of the "traditionalists" leave boards like this. When you get down to it, traditionalists are not supporting things just because Walt said so. Many have trouble articulating the whys, but what they are really supporting is a business philosophy. A business philosophy that is the ONLY reason Disney the company exists today.

Unfortunately the current Disney has abandoned most of that philosophy. That's not a new development of course. This new decision is simply a reminder that Disney is no longer special, they are just a corporation looking for anyway it can to make money. As opposed to what Disney WAS, which was a company following a philosophy that resulted in making money.

You can still find places that follow a philosophy similar to Walt's. You can see many elements of it in Pixar, though certainly that is becoming murkier as time goes by and they are assimilated into the Disney corporation. It's out there, it's just not being followed by Disney anymore.

 

[raidermatt]

Strongly disagree. I've been out there enough times at Wishes and MSEP next to people who clearly had more than just a few at dinner. Sure, they have to get past security to get into MK, but this isn't like being pulled over for a DUI stop by a police officer. If someone were falling down drunk it would be a different story- but the same holds true with that in all of the parks. The reality is that there are people all around you in MK who stopped for some drinks along the monorail loop and just b/c you've never noticed or like to be blissfully unaware doesn't mean it doesn't go on. I lived in FL for 7 years ... and this was back in the 90s ... and I can say for certain that it is more common than you clearly have imagined for people to come into MK under the influence. Nothing new- just a reality I guess some people are now waking up to.

As for the Walt portion, what he said was clear, but it was 50 years ago. You have ZERO way of knowing what he'd think or feel if he were seeing the parks in this day and age. To assume he'd have the same exact feelings right now is baseless, but the reality is that people's viewpoints tend to change as time progresses. So, logic would imply that Walt would at the very least be faced with some choices as the rest of the world changed around him. You can believe that Walt's beliefs would have stood still with time, but nobody has any way of knowing this.

Still, I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. We're talking about beer and wine during dinner...not bottomless hurricanes on Bourbon Street. Seriously- put it into perspective.

Again, put a beer in front of somebody and they are more likely to pick it up and drink it than if you make them walk for a 1/2 hour, go through security checks, turnstiles, etc. You can deny that all you want, but anyone being honest is not going to buy it.

And, when it comes to this topic, you can say using Walt's quotes on the matter is baseless, but that doesn't make it so. The idea that the world has changed around him is fine when you are talking about home video strategies, but the effects of alcohol and the problems it causes in our society has not changed.

All that isn't to say you have no right to support the decision, but just be honest and say you want to drink at BoG and that's more important to you than the reasons Walt and Disney have not allowed it up until this point.

 

[JimmyV]

And of course, the majority is always right.

Actually, most of the "traditionalists" leave boards like this.

This new decision is simply a reminder that Disney is no longer special, they are just a corporation looking for anyway it can to make money.

1. Of course a poll is not intended to discern who is "right". It is designed to ascertain where the sentiment lies.

2. With multiple threads both on the Restaurant and Theme Park Boards going on for 20+ pages of heated debate, it is fair to conclude that the traditionalists are here in full force, and in numbers that far outpace general society. The outcry here is sure to be more passionate than that of any random sampling of guests. Where else are you going to find such a high concentration of Disney-philes?

3. You are way off base if you think this was a money-driven decision. Ask yourself this: On any given night how many:

a) People will be seated for dinner at BoG;
b) Will be adults;
c) Will choose to purchase beer and/or wine.

That number is so small in the larger scheme of things as to be completely irrelevant. No. This was a decision based on the belief that the "dry" policy no longer makes any sense once the MK decided to dive into the deep end and open a more upscale restaurant with a French theme and French cuisine. If this were truly about money, the option to purchase beer and wine would be available all day long, and any adult park guest would be able to walk up to a counter and partake, a la Sommerfest. Limiting this to seated guests at dinner and imposing per person limits speaks volumes about just how important income is in this process.

 

[Fantasmiss]

No. It was the only alchohol free park and alchohol has no place in Magic Kingdom. If people can't handle half a day in MK witout alchohol they have a problem. And with that I mean that most people can. Regardless, for too many children alchohol is something scary that make grown-ups strange and scary, it would be nice if those kids could have one place in WDW where they didn't have to worry about that.

Oh and hold the flames pleasee? This wasn't meant to offend anyone, some people will of course disagree and that's fine. Please help keep DIS argument free! Thanks

Good thing there's no Pinocchio ride in MK. Alchohol and acting is BAAAAD, now leave through the exit, walk past some actors in costume, into the restaurant next door and have some alchohol.

 

[deakam]

And I don't think anyone on this site knows what Walt would have wanted so you sound like an idiot claiming to know what a man who died long before I was even born whom I'm sure you did not know personally would want.

He did not die well before I was born. Apparently since you were born common decency has also died. I am so very glad that you are sure that I did not know him personally and there fore would not know what he wants. It must be so very difficult for you to know everything there is to know about all of the people on these threads. Thank goodness the world is populated with such intelligent beings as yourself.

I am very sorry that your life is so terrible that you feel the need to lash out at people you do not know simply because they disagree with you. Your statement, so callously written in such a public place, would indicate that you my dear are in fact the idiot here. Have a magical day.

 

[Sweet Melissa]

I voted even though none of the options really suited me. I really don't see why the most lax poll option still excludes Epcot's current service. I don't see anything wrong with how they operate.

 

[Retro Magic]

Not a fan of this as I do not drink myself and don't like seeing what over-drinking does to people. At the same time, its the individuals fault, not the alcohol or Disney really, who chooses to act irresponsible. Complicated. But, I still would rather is not be served. But, I guess if its left to just being served for table service meals, its not quite as bad.