Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by KINGBOBOFTHENORTH, Aug 25, 2008.
Former CP and I totally agree!!!
protein spill = vomit waiting to be cleaned up for all non CM's
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But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.
And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.
I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.
I think that your probably striking very close to the truth with this. Any company that had a signed lease and was presumably spending money already would certainly want the associated pub that accompanies it. You think Hanes wanted their T-shirt store kept a secret until ribbon cutting?
I think that their are things that are going to work against these clubs morphing into something else. The economy for one thing, companies are just not going to be in a hurry expand, let alone take on the kind of financial outpouring that would be required by disney, you dont think they are going to lease these properties on the cheap do you?
Also, keep in mind, they need a group of businesses to make this work that will feed off each other to make transforming this even the least bit desirable, just how easy do you think thats going to be?
Personnally, I think this area could be shuttered for quite awhile before any development takes place, and Disney may have to re-develop it themselves, or at least committ an awful lot of resources to that end to make it attractive enough to lure the type of businesses they would want to target.
Yeah.. except.. I only mentioned that rumor was present in this thread.. I'm not entirely sure I believe it as stated.
I'm not particularly optimistic at all.. but I am saying that it's too early to pass judgement.
ok folks, I'll be honest... i have not read thru the entire 15 pages of this thread, so if this is addressed already, forgive me...
I just read on the Dis that Hanes will be opening a new create your own t-shirt shop at DownTown Disney -- I think this is part of the replacement scheme for PI. Anyhow, I remember waaay back when it was just DownTown Disney Village Marketplace. Inside one of the stores there was a create your own t-shirt thing. I actually bought a DarkWingDuck one for a friend as a joke (long story!).
That offering was eventually pulled and replaced -- and I'm assuming it was pulled because it wasn't getting as much traffic, or was no longer profitable. So --- Why put another one back in?
If anything -- this makes me think that there is a possibility that someday they'll bring back AC....HERE'S HOPING!!
The Hanes store is actually going in what was the former Disney Memories (scrapbook store) at the far end of the Marketplace (no where near PI).
Thread seems to have gone OT just a bit but it has been entertaining anyway- I hope we all know what will be happening soon and when it is scheduled to be in operation-
On a different note- It has affected our ticket buying motives-
We were going to get 10 day hoppers w/ waterparks N more nonexpiring tickets-
We will now be getting 10 day nonexpiring and still not certain if we will add hoppers or not
We are DVCers so the waterparks would have been cool but we have themed pools at the resorts- the biggest thing the "more" would have covered for me & Dh would have been the entertainment at PI- and the fact that we have 5 kids, 2 of them minors but old enough to have been able to go to the CW and they were really looking forward to that-
I hope they do something that Teens can partake in for a nightlife venue as well as another club setting for 18-25 and another yet for us who still love the 70's & 80's as well as top 40- It was something we were looking forward to and will miss never having the experience-
First time Disney go'ers but Lifetime Disney Freaks!
Back to your regularly scheduled program...
we are only off topic because the original question, what's coming to the new PI? Can't be answered. NO ONE knows except some top level exec and the way things are looking, I don't even think they know what they're doing with the clubs.
My main concern was no alternative for people given Citywalk didn't have a techno night. That appears to be changing and if so, Citywalk here I come!
I was told there are only two more conventions at the club and then after that, no one really knows what's going to be done. Has anyone heard anything?
When I began this thread last August, not a word had been leaked about what was coming to the new PI except the Hanes store (which ended up over in Marketplace) and the South American night club (which remains under construction).
So here we are 5 months later and there still has been no "leaks". With EVERYTHING else at Disney World, there are secrets and then there are leaks of information. Yet there has been NOTHING leaked about PI. This truly has been Disney's Best Kept Secret, not the those darn timeshares. This leads me to believe there there really are no plans for PI or perhaps vendors that did have plans shelved them when the economy turned sour.
alright I think after observing, reading, getting some history, and just plain putting my own ideas and thoughts together, I have come up with what I deem to be the final answer to the whole PI situation.
First of all I walked through today for the first time since arriving back in Orlando, which is also the first time I've been here since the last night of PI. Motion didn't have any black things over the window so I was able to peek inside. Everything looked in tact although I couldn't see any lights. There was some kind of white banner up inside by the stage. It's obviously been or is being used.
I also took a peek inside the mannequins door by 8-trax where the smoking area was on busy nights. This would be the second level of the club. There was a light on inside and I could see one of the mannequins hanging where it was the last night, but was of course unable to see any of the lighting to see if the rumors are true that it has been stripped and the lights were used at American Idol(don't even get me started on that)
Now, why has this all been done? Why would Disney abandon something that has absolutely paid for itself in terms of return on investment and that single handidly put church street station out of business?
Company line: "due to guest feedback, we are presenting a bold new vision for downtown disney including unique shops and restaurants.
The truth: PI was attracting the "wrong element" and Disney didn't like the image being presented to guests who were walking through with children.
It seems to me they(in their mind) perhaps did things to try and get rid of the locals who would hang out and cause trouble. One of the things was making all the clubs 21+ all the time. While this was a pain for some people, I'm sure the hope was that it would drive away these teens hanging out since they couldn't get into the clubs. That appeared to not work.
Then they tore down the stage in an effort to open everything up and make it easier for guests to get from MP to WS. Why they did this, I still don't really know. It would make sense to have people walking through the island to generate business, but at the same time it caused the "wrong element" crowd to appear.
Now why did they choose sept 27th and leave all that holiday revenue on the table? Because it was the end of the fiscal year and for that last quarter, revenue at PI was sky high as the dooms day approached. You know that little bonus Iger got? Gee I wonder what numbers made it look like he did such a good job? I'm sure there are other things to the equation, but you have to know PI played some role in that because the clubs were all paid for at this point.
Furthermore if it is true that the Mannequins lights were moved to the AI attraction, that would be another little benefit to getting the club closed at the end of Sept so they could tear it apart.
Now I know I'm gonna get two crowds in here, the AC club lovers(and I love you back) and the people who don't care about or are glad PI closed. To those people, go back to the bars or the parks with all the screaming kids running around. To the AC people, I have believe the reason they would not just keep one club open is they felt they needed to go all or none. It was unique and not even a dancing establishment, but this is what makes me think they HAD something planned but it fell through. They are continuing to use the club past the date they had said they wouldn't, and that means to me either they are gonna keep it preserved or they are waiting for something to come through and then they'll tear it all apart. lets face it, had they kept AC, CW, 8-trax, and mannequins open, 99% of people would have been fine with that. This is why it goes back to A) the wrong element and B) having a plan that has obviously fallen through.
Of course we can all argue/discuss how they COULD have preserved PI if they really wanted to, but going through all this in my mind has at least helped me make peace with the decisions.
Now all we have is Atlantic Dance and Jellyrolls.
So who wants to open a new mannequins at the old club paris location downtown? PM me!
Good analysis and probably right on point. No doubt the wrong element; generally teenagers, were hanging around too much. Connecting the two sides of DTD absolutely required them to open PI but with it open, the non-revenue teens congregated even more, so they had to get rid of the stages and things cascaded from there. As to whether there really are plans for PI, we should know pretty soon. By the end of February we will either see some wrecking balls or we won't.
I so wish that Disney would change its mind and let the AC and CW reopen as paid admission venues. These places certainly fit the family friendly mantra. And the adding of the South/Central American restaurant with a late evening night club must show some sentiment that this kind of club can fit into their bold new scheme. CityWalk proves every night that family friendly can coexist with adult night club entertainment.
As for the Club Paris location, the place is so filled with old-fashioned wrought iron from its original days as the Cheyenne Social Club or Phineous Pfoggs Balloon Works that renovations into something futuristic looking aka Mannequins would be prohibitively expensive. But it is large and has a working sound system. Talking Disney into reopening something at PI would be preferable though.
yeah I would argue they should have just gated the island again and made it like the old days. There used to be a bridge going from MP to WS and they tore that down too. There were alternatives if they really wanted the island to thrive, but they didn't so they let it die.
I agree CW and AC at the very least should still be open.
As for Club Paris, I'd update the decor as time went on, but it's the sound and lighting that's important at the start. It seems to be a good location and would draw people to Church Street. If they started running busses from WDW to church street, it would really boom business.
I agree that it was the teens. I posted a while ago that the large groups of seedy looking teens made families feel unsafe and not at all like they were at Disney. I just could not imagine that Disney would want this kind of image. I know people that wrote to Disney and complained about these large groups of teenagers. A woman from my daughter's softball team and her children were followed out to her car by a group of them, they yelled stuff to her, scared the bejeezus out of her. The first thing she did the next morning was go to the front desk at her resort asked to whom she could complain about these "gangs" of teenagers. I honestly know 2 other people that had similar (not exactly the same thing-they were not followed) experiences with these teens, feeling unsafe, and said they would not go back to DTD because of it.
When I wrote about this a while back posters told me that I was being completely ridiculous...the teens weren't that bad, you could go to any mall and see the same thing, they are actually worse on the WS and not PI, etc..
I always thought that PI should have been built on the "end" and not in the middle of MP and WS. Then they could have kept it gated, charged a cover, and required adults to be 21. The teenager thing would not have been an issue.
I feel bad for fans of AC and CW as well as the dance clubs. We'll have to see as it gets warmer if this undesirable element (AKA-teens) comes back or not.
It doesn seem like SOME sort of plans for PI should have been announced by now. Maybe it is the economy...who knows?
Initially Pleasure Island was on the end. The Marketplace came first, and then Pleasure Island. I agree that it didn't work well in the middle - but that should have been easy to foresee. They chose to build the West Side where they did after Pleasure Island had already been there for quite a while. I think they should have offset the West Side so that they formed more of a triangle, since there wasn't room on the other side of the Marketplace to build it there.
They're still there, as much as they ever were. (And for the record, I mean "teens," not even getting into the whole "undesirable element" thing again.) The AMC didn't go anywhere, and that's what draws teens in any town in America.
Same number of O.C. deputies and security guards, as well, BTW--tho they all look even more bored at 2:00 am now, with tiny Fuego being the only place left open. While closing PI may have been an economic decision, cutting secutity costs was clearly not one of the goals.
I've said this a dozen different ways, but the idea that this was a plan to somehow make DTD "family-friendly" is laughable...no matter what the little piece of cardboard said. This was purely a move toward outsourcing.
yeah, still teens, still have security, so why no new developments? I still don't think money had anything to do with it. It was about image. They could have easily gated off the island again and it would be just the same as it is now, only I'd be a lot less pissed off, but they didn't wanna put in the effort.
And for the record, WS was built in 98 I believe
I could be misremembering, but I thought the original plan was for West Side to be a more "adult" version of the Marketplace, to complement PI which by that point had lost its T.S. restaurants and was known just for its clubs. Cirque, Wolfgang Puck, Bongos, HoB, Sosa, the memorabilia shop, "Mickey Mouse Hot Topic" (I forget its real name now), the guitar shop--all could be seen as catering to an 18 and up crowd. Even the candy shop, themed to the Wicked Queen rather than Goofy, could have taken on a more adult air had history gone differently.
Hmm...an area of upscale, adult-oriented third party dining and entertainment in DTD. So basically, this idea has failed TWICE now.
Not sure you could re-gate the Island at this point without annoying the existing 3rd party tenants. Maybe you could put gates at an angle to somehow allow access to Raglan but block it to Mannequins, but no way Harley and Curl wouldn't become paid-admission only.
(But yeah, still 100% agreement that more than anything is what killed PI.)
Disney doesn't want to run anything anymore--look at the restaurants in AK in Epcot. It's easier to run a glorified mall and collect a fixed rent every month than to have to run eight clubs and deal with market fluctuations. They just overestimated what a spot on Disney property not actually surrounded by anything Disney is worth.
'98 sounds right--fairly certain Fireworks Factory had closed by then, and Portabello and Emperess Lily/Fultons were outside the PI gate, so the idea was people would eat and shop a little in West Side, then "carpe PM" over at PI.
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