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So...I want to hear the downside to this

Discussion in 'DVC-Mousecellaneous' started by gracerussell, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    :thumbsup2

    And they could improve the condition of the DVC rooms, but they choose not to for reasons that only Disney knows.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
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  3. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    They may include the upkeep costs but the company management chooses to use the money somewhere else. Hotel guests can voice their displeasure with the resort or room buy not coming back. If sales suffer, management will make change.

    DVC is a different business model, owners have to use their points each year of forfeit them, not much incentive to do a better job. In fact if we don't like any aspect of the DVC there isn't anything that we can do about it except vent here on the DIS.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  4. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    It sounds like you'd meet most of our criteria (& all you addressed) for being reasonable to buy as long as you are comfortable with the modest compromises and plan in advance. BLT resale will be a good choice, a more expensive choice but one worth considering is to either buy a fixed week at VGF or wait for the same at the Poly. It really depends on what you'd prefer if looking on the high end anyway.

    For special situations or short term points usage this may be reasonable but it is certainly not reasonable to buy extra points with the idea of renting them long term, esp at BLT, IMO. The exceptions would center around when you will or may need more later such as those looking at buying small up front.

    My take is this is a function of not investigating enough or understanding well enough what one's needs are. As a rule one should be pretty sure when buying a very small contract because the costs are higher per point and if you do have to add later the costs are escalated. I do believe that many who are looking small as an initial purchase should overshoot even if they have to downgrade their resort to do so.

    The industry standard is 5-7 years for soft goods and 10-14 for a major overhaul. Top resorts like Marriott and Hilton are normally on the shorter end, mid levels tend to be in the higher range of those times. The most aggressive I've heard about was a major redo every 4 years but at that resort they don't collect reserves and just have the owners pay the full amount at the time around every 4 years.

    Things can happen for a given room or a given resort but in general for Disney there clearly is a difference in upkeep between the dlx resorts and DVC resorts.
     
  5. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    And Disney hotels are really dependent on repeat business and word of mouth to charge their rates to stay on site.
     
  6. JimMIA

    JimMIA A little Miami humor...

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    We have found three downsides to DVC:
    • Over time, growing families' vacation interests change. When DD was 4-5, she was thrilled to see Mickey in the parade and go to the Princess character meals at Norway. Now, at almost 12, not so much. In fact, when we had a day break in a skating competition in Orlando last April, she declined going to Disney. She preferred to remain across town and just hang out. We still enjoy Disney World, but it's no longer our ONLY vacation. In fact, it's not even every year these days.

    • DVC is a VERY limited timeshare system. DVC is great for Walt Disney World, no question about that. However, there are only 12 DVC resorts, 8 of which are at WDW. The other four resorts, while beautiful, are not in destinations we want to visit. Or if they are, there are other, better options there.

      Yes, you can exchange via RCI, but only to about 600 of the +/-3,500 RCI resorts, and there are much better options for exchanging.

      If one is willing to give up onsite at WDW, there are numerous timeshare systems that offer far more than DVC...many of them for next to nothing on the resale market and with lower per-night MF costs than DVC.

    • WDW vacations are VERY expensive, and honestly not as good a value as they used to be. Not only is DVC a very expensive timeshare to buy, but the dues are also high compared to the lodging you recieve. And to compound the problem, park tickets and the abundance of hard-ticket events have greatly increased the cost of vacationing at WDW.
     
  7. nkereina

    nkereina Last chance to lose your keys.

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    We are still in the consideration stages ourselves. We would only look at resale due to the cost, but one concerning thing to me is that Disney reserves the right to change their terms at any time. To my knowledge, it was only recently (within the last 1-2 years?) that Disney placed limitations so that resale contracts could not book DCL, ABD and non-DVC resorts. It makes me nervous to think about what else Disney might restrict for resale owners, especially if direct sales start to decline.

    And I also agree with PP in that you are very limited with DVC. We love Disney as much as the next person on here, but when you check out other time shares like Marriott and Hilton who are comparable in price, you start to realize how many more destinations they offer and it makes the decision that much more difficult.
     
  8. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    There are many things that they can change but the core option of reserving your home resort and maybe a different DVC resort can only be changed if it's changed for everyone. That is unless they institute a VIP system which would affect everyone.
     
  9. JimMIA

    JimMIA A little Miami humor...

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    That is correct, for the most part. Basically, all you are guaranteed is the right to reserve lodging at your home resort...subject to availability, of course. OTOH, that's all DIRECT purchasers are guaranteed as well. It's important to understand that those things direct purchasers currently have access to can be taken away with one swipe of the Mouse's pen...just like they were from resale buyers.

    The ability to change just about anything is typical of most timeshare systems -- DVC is no outlier in that respect.

    Also, I find the excitement about resale restrictions pretty amusing in light of the changes they have made to everyone's DVC. The restrictions/changes on transfers, banking, and points allocations have been much more important (IMHO) than eliminating a bunch of junk nobody would have really used anyway!
    That's correct, although some of us think they did resale buyers a favor by imposing those restrictions. Two reasons: 1) those options are so expensive point-wise that they are awful uses of points anyway, but more importantly 2) the restrictions force purchasers to think about what is really important about timeshare ownership -- using it within the internal system of that program.
    There are things they could do, but I think we overestimate the importance of resale with regards to DVC's direct sales. From a prospective purchaser's perspective, resale is very important because significant savings are possible via that route. For the developer, however, resale is pretty much of a non-issue, IMHO.

    The vast majority of DVC direct purchasers have no idea a resale market exists. They are at WDW on vacation, get swept up in the pixie dust, and take a tour. And they buy. It's an impulse purchase of a good product which works out fine for many families. Maybe not the smartest financial decision they've ever made, but it works out okay.

    I don't think the DVC timeshare sales personnel need to worry about resale. What they need is something to say to minimize the attractiveness of resale -- and the current restrictions (even though I think those options are worse than useless) give them enough to say to their uninformed target market.
     
  10. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    Repeating for emphasis. There are some other things you are guaranteed - Disney won't take out all the beds in the room and replace them with trapezes, for instance. But even direct purchasers could find many of what they think of as things that are basic to the program gone tomorrow.
     
  11. JimMIA

    JimMIA A little Miami humor...

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    Just to be technically correct -- there is actually NO guarantee that beds will not be replaced with trapezes. (And I don't think I want to venture any further into that concept!)

    About the only other thing I know is guaranteed is the ability to reserve at non-home resorts as long as your home resort is a member of the "club." And if non-home booking is allowed, home resort owners are guaranteed at least a ONE month booking advantage (currently 4 months -- 11/7). That's really about it.
    That's the key. VERY few things are actually guaranteed.
     
  12. nabi

    nabi Home at Disney!

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    And the stilts will come out too, only later to be determined this is not a circus act but DVC villa improvement...they're painting! Things aren't always as they appear. Things also change up for an "improved" system and Disney is notorious for attempting this. I'm glad they do.
     
  13. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    Actually there are some protections on substantially equivalent villa amenities from what I understand but like anything else, enforcement becomes the issue.
     
  14. bakerworld

    bakerworld DIS Veteran

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    Nice way to start out - if you decide the "World of DVC" is not for you then 180 pts at Bay Lake should be a fair resale. The smaller contracts do 'fly' off the shelf. If your offer is taken at ROFR - even tho you can afford it - stay small .. JIC :thumbsup2
     
  15. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    That was what I was thinking - and that trapezes wouldn't be equivalent amenities when beds were sold - therefore, we'd get enforcement (not that they would do it) - but that if they replaced them with futons eight inches off the floor, most of us old people would be mad, but they might be able to claim equivalence, and we wouldn't get enforcement.

    (Not that they'd do either, but I think they MIGHT get away with futon mattresses eight inches off the floor).
     
  16. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    Ultimately though all we really have is faith in Disney, thus even for "cheap" resales, that's a lot to pay for the risks we're taking both with Disney and in the rest of our lives. What if the parks were to close for example?
     
  17. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    Disney would sell if they got the right offer, as time goes on they are just like any other company focusing primarily on profit at the increasing expense of their guests. Their goal is apparently to pack in as many guests as they can, even if you can't walk down Main Street, have to stand in a queue for 60 minutes, wait on phone hold for 45, book dinner reservations 6 months out, and check in online 2 months out.

    Disney still has a special place in our hearts, because of Walt Disney and the Disney of yesterday, not the Disney of today.

    I feel better now. :drinking:

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  18. calypso726

    calypso726 Escaping reality one Disney vacation at a time

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    Addonitis can be a downside. We started off with 180 points which we felt would meet our needs. We soon realized we wanted to go more often so we added on a few times. We are currently at 1100 points :rolleyes1
     
  19. Deb & Bill

    Deb & Bill DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention

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    How much are your annual dues for 2014? That's your cure.
     
  20. calypso726

    calypso726 Escaping reality one Disney vacation at a time

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    :teacher: Uhm, a lot :lmao: Ulcers are a potential side effect of addonitis when the dues are due. I do believe that the "disease" has run its course :sick:
     
  21. figment795

    figment795 Mouseketeer

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    I would love to own 1000 points. Currently retail is just too much. We own 370 at SSR since 2004 paid in full.:cheer2: BLT 230 points need another 230 for flexibility :dance3:
     

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