Robbing Peter to pay "PAUL"

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by DVC-Landbaron, May 8, 2001.

  1. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    "Robbing Peter to pay Paul..."


    You gotta love that line. And who is the 'Peter" they are robbing? Why Disneyland, of course.

    I know a lot of you don't care for the style of Mouseplanet, but I'm going to post the link anyway. You may not like his style, but even if half of what he says is true you've got to admit he's got some substance. I really wonder if management is actually that far removed from us common folk that they've completely lost sight of what Disney is supposed to be all about. How did they think this would work in the first place? And can they really think that these "fixes" will cure the problem? I find it amazing!

    Does anyone else feel like I do, or is it Lutz we are going to bash?
     
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  3. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

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    I don't know, AL is less trustworthy then even Jim Hill. Maybe Another Voice has heard some rumours. I myself think that they aren't THAT gunshy yet about spending money. Also, aside from maintainence concerns and Rocket Rods, Disneyland would survive without Buzz and Pooh for the forseeable future....


    What concerns me most is the comments about attendance make up. I think Hill is dead on there and I hope disney corrects itself soon. I'm sure there are limits much like on radio prize winnings as to how many times you can win, or be on the show. IF the grand prize of being flying to newyork for the real show is included, then they'll almost have to do that.
     
  4. HBK

    HBK Mouseketeer

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    Let me start by saying I agree with you Baron...

    BUT...

    I think I'm becoming oblivious to this. It's more and more of the same. Cut here to spend (and then cut) there.

    Whether people agree with Lutz or not, he hit the nail right on the head with his article. If Eisner & Co. spent more time asking people what kind of vacation experince they would want they wouldn't have this mess. The current Disney regime is Hellbent on force feeding us (customers) something which we NEVER asked for.

    You would think that after skimping and cutting the budget to make the park, they would realize that cutting corners isn't going to work.

    But Alas, it's your current Disney Company. I hope Duck & friends are happy.
     
  5. HBK

    HBK Mouseketeer

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    Let me start by saying I agree with you Baron...

    BUT...

    I think I'm becoming oblivious to this. It's more and more of the same. Cut here to spend (and then cut) there.

    Whether people agree with Lutz or not, he hit the nail right on the head with his article. If Eisner & Co. spent more time asking people what kind of vacation experince they would want they wouldn't have this mess. The current Disney regime is Hellbent on force feeding us (customers) something which we NEVER asked for.

    You would think that after skimping and cutting the budget to make the park, they would realize that cutting corners isn't going to work.

    But Alas, it's your current Disney Company. I hope Duck & friends are happy.
     
  6. Peter Pirate

    Peter Pirate Its not the end of civilization...But you can see

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    Man, I had to check for my wallet before I read further that you weren't speaking of me!;)

    I don't mind reading lutz's articles and I don't doubt that much of what he writes has basis in truth...But his interjections of, I assume, humorus zingers knocks his credibility level to near zero IMO.

    Certainly DCA has problems and his taking credit for predicting what Disney would do in that eventuality is absurd (we all could have predicted it). Certainly Disney already had the contingency for where the money would come from if it were necessary and it is relatively logical that it be DL's budget.

    One other point to take exception with is would be Lutz's take on DCA's opening of "Millionaire." The show is popular, Regis is popular and the new attraction at The Studios is great...Why wouldn't they plop this already succesful & inexpensive gem into the mix? :confused:
     
  7. RamVA

    RamVA Mouseketeer

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    I'm not here a whole lot, but have read a few of your posts, and I think I am pretty much usually on the same page with you in regards to the whole downslide of Disney. My experience of working in retail/service industry when it's a large, corporate company, has been that, yes, the "powers that be" are totally out of touch with what the customer wants or needs, and they really don't seem to be interested in finding out either directly, or from those managers that are on the "front lines" and have valuable input to give them. People here seem to get pretty defensive with anything critical of Disney--I know even my own son yells at me--but, one can objectively criticize and still love Disney!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
     
  8. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

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    Interesting thing about customer surveys, I don't think Walt ever did them. So, from an arrogance perspective, why would current managment?
     
  9. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    Ya know Peter my friend, I don't understand that at all. You start out saying that you don't doubt the authenticity of what he writes, but because he editorializes on the subject (and YES he does take liberties) you discount it all down to ZERO!! Can't you read through the opinion? Can't you separate the basic facts from the (sometimes) wild speculation and editorializing? Why is it that you discount the whole thing?
    I think this bothers me more than anything else. YOU, a rose colored Ei$ner fan if ever there was one (but hey, that's why we love you!), could have predicted this mess from it's inception. Why couldn't "'Team Disney"? It doesn't matter who predicted what first. I'm not here to boost Lutz's ego, he does a fine job all by himself. What bothers me is how EVERYONE could see the ruinous path they were on. Everyone that is, except Ei$ner and Pre$$lar? (I actually blame only Ei$ner, but used Pre$$lar's name too because I wanted to write his name using the double $$.)
    Where is the logic in this? It's like the same tired argument used to prop up that disaster of a GO.COM a half a year ago. "Of course the parks should help an underachieving (carefully avoiding the word FAILING) division, until that division's profits start to soar! And they will." Oh yeah?
    Other than the fact that the show is losing popularity and is falling from grace in public's eye, it smacks of a CHEAP quick fix for a failing park. Same as MSEP. And I think you agree with the way you used the word "plop". That certainly sums it up perfectly for me. PLOP!

    YoHo:
    Well, Walt was right, current management is wrong. Pretty simple, eh?
     
  10. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

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    DIdn't mean to suggest managment was right for doing so, merely that they were arogant.:bounce:
     
  11. Peter Pirate

    Peter Pirate Its not the end of civilization...But you can see

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    First Landbaron, I do not doubt the fact there lies a bit of truth in most of the things Lutz writes, but because of his lack of objectivilty there is no way to discern what amount may be true ...Which leads to low credibility as a source, IMO. I CAN pick & choose bits that seem logical, but it sure would be nice to hear something said without that knife twisting in Eisner's back.

    With regard to DCA, I readily admit it has problems, it has been reported since before the Park opened. My point wasn't that I could predict the problem but anyone with an ounce of sense could predict what Disney's response would be IF a problem were to arise...Lutz is acting like a wise ole sage because Disney is going for a quick, inexpensive fix (gee, why would that revelation shock anyone?).

    Next you ask, where is the logic in taking from the DL budget to fix DCA? Because DCA is a part of DL much like all WDW parks are linked in the same budgeting process...:D

    Now to "Millionaire", I realize you like to report on the decline in ratings of Millionaire, but it is still a successful show and the attraction is a great deal of fun! Notice that Surviors ratings were miniscule in comparison to the original & the other so called reality shows are tanking big time. Millionaire is a legitimate game show and based on that alone, should be able to have a long tenure , not cult fanaticism granted, but still successful. Trust me, my Daughter & I did "Millionaire" four times in our recent trip & I'm looking forward to taking my older daughter to it next week more than any other thing at WDW(except maybe dinner at Flying Fish!).

    So adding Millionaire seems like the right move to me, but I still endorse TOT & Armageddon (which is where they're putting Millionaire, if Lutz is correct, for the real fix!
     
  12. larworth

    larworth DIS Veteran

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    I agree the signs don’t look good. Of course, at this point if you have to plug the dike you do whatever you can. I don't see any signs of a contingency plan (if they had one it was obviously worse than these options), so I’d probably give MSEP and Millionaire a shot as well.

    I’m not surprised they are deferring investment in DL for DCA. What is surprising is that they even planned to do Buzz and Pooh before adding more things to DCA in the first place. Gee, from the first article I read about DCA there was a comment that it seemed noticeably short of attractions. They really didn’t perceive this as a potential problem? Again, it is puzzling why they pulled the plug on Armageddon. You mean you want to head into next year with only the new Ursala spinner?

    The scary thought is not that they tried to pull off the partial park at full price strategy again (ala MGM & AK), but that they were so confident it would work. It does make you wonder what their market research people are doing, or if they are reading their own reports.

    Millionaire seems a no-brainer. Must be easy to duplicate, it seems to be very popular, and I would be worried about it’s shelf life. Might as well milk it while you can. In the article Al seemed concerned that it didn't have any fit with a California theme. Well the rumor is the new version will be slightly altered to “Who wants to be a Millionaire – The Gold Rush Version”. Contestants don miners hats, the hot seat is designed to look like a giant gold pan. You compete for gold Disney pins, and the ultimate winner gets tickets to a 49’ers game. And they said that the concept behind this park was too limiting (lol).
     
  13. Eyesnur

    Eyesnur Guest

    Oy, you guy's have got to get a grip. If Al Lutz reported about Paulie's poor bathroom hygeine, you would believe it!

    You good people have got to remember that this is a GREAT Company, started by a GREAT Man and for the past 17 years management has tried its damndest to remain true to the idiums of our great founder until his return. While we cannot please all of the people all of the time we do have to please the stockholders first, which means doing things in a vastly different way from Walt...Sorry.

    Further, you can't possibly imagine the pressures and the changes...Why the internet alone, oy, how would like the whole world discussing your salary? And subordinate loyalty, don't get me started...You hire a friend, give him a big office, big salary, company mousemobile and he turns on you like those hyenias in Lion King...Hehehe, kind of funny, hehehe, midget hyenia, hehehehe!

    Well, I have to go but you folks would do well to remember the oft forgotton words once uttered by Walt "If a guy makes that much money, he must be worth it!"


    :bounce:
    Oh...I almost forgot, go see Pearl Harbor...It's reallly great!
    :bounce:
     
  14. HBK

    HBK Mouseketeer

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    Sincerly,
    Mike Eisner
     
  15. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    I thought this was common knowledge!!
    We know, we know. There are many that tell us that all the time. Yes!! Stockholders first!! The parks may be empty, but on paper at least, we're a heck of a company!!
     
  16. YoHo

    YoHo If you have any poo to fling, now is the time.

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    Micheal Eisner Giggling like a little School Girl. That is an image.

    But seriously folks, Have you seen a picture of Paul Presslar, I would never believe Lutz's reports of his bad Hygiene, I mean look, that smile so imaculate, the hair so perfectly in place, those finely manicured nails slipping effortlessly in to our pockets....

    Why, Paul Presslar is a living example of everything Walt ever said about good Hygiene.
    :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


    Man mass layoffs must make you lightheaded. :)
     
  17. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    OH MY GOD!!! My dear Pirate!! That's it!! It just kind of hit me when I read your post. Go on. Read that quote again. ANYONE OF US could have written that. Pro-Ei$ner and Ei$ner-bashers alike. No surprise here!! This "quick", "inexpensive (read: cheap) fix", wouldn't, couldn't "shock" anyone!! But if Walt did the same EVERYONE would be terribly shocked!! If he happened to get cheap on us, or failed in some way and had to "fix" something, we would all be very surprised if he would go "for a quick, inexpensive fix'. And that, my dear Pirate, is the difference!!
    Hmmm. Seems to me I remember a certain Pirate "justifying" the cutbacks in maintenance and deferred attractions within WDW, as a direct result of failures in other aspects of the company. So, what makes this different?
    Yeah! So do I! But we won't see that for many, many years!!!!
    You really like the Flying Fish!! OK, you convinced me. I'll check it out in August!! Thanks.
     
  18. Peter Pirate

    Peter Pirate Its not the end of civilization...But you can see

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    Landbaron...If Walt did it everyone would be examining their personal religious beliefs...(As he's been dead for awhile!), did you miss the news? ;)

    Are you sure that wasn't the Captain?;)

    Finally, on an upbeat and yummy note...Are grown men allowed to say yummy, by the way? Anyway, yes the Flying Fish is awesome. We've been there 6-7 times and everything is just mouthwateringly good!:p
     
  19. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    :crazy: :tongue: :jester: :jester: :jester: :tongue: :crazy:

    OH MY GOD, PETER!!! I was absolutely on the floor!!!

    Every sentence was a gem!!!

    That post was GREAT!!! What a sense of humor!!!

    :crazy: :tongue: :jester: :jester: :jester: :tongue: :crazy:

    :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

    After a post like that you can say yummy if you want to.
     
  20. Another Voice

    Another Voice Charter Member of The Element

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    I don’t want to turn this into another ‘Al’ debate, but I’ll just say I’ve always found his articles to be as credible as possible given the circumstances they’re working under. Trying to work through any corporate grapevine is not pleasant, and Disney’s is particularly difficult. His information is certainly more accurate than the “official” line that Disney pumps out, and if I have any comment is that he’s a little too anxious to break the good news these days (‘Pooh’ and ‘Lightyear’ being prime examples). And I’ll certainly take Al’s writing over some self-aggrandizing puff-piece written by the martini crowd any day.

    Now back to the rumors –

    There is basically a struggle going on between different groups in the company. Anaheim knows that it’s in real bad trouble and nervousness is turning into panic. Attendance in wonderful, sunny May is lower than it was in miserable, stormy March. Burbank still doesn’t believe there is anything wrong at all. Nothing, its all just absolutely perfect - except for the weather and those evil, evil people on the internet - so let’s spend the money elsewhere. Now over in Orlando, there are a whole lot of people that want to “help” Anaheim by offering the new park all kinds of wonderful shows. Of course, Anaheim will need to pay Florida for these shows and to take over a chunk of the shows’ development costs. It’s nothing but accounting, but if my bonus is based on how just my parks do in the ledger books, I wouldn’t mind shifting several million dollars of amortization onto someone else’s budget. Anaheim and Orlando have been at this for decades and it always reminded me of two kids in the back seat of a car fighting over who’s taking up more of the seat. Lastly, add the WDI crowd over in Glendale. They know they’re a pen stroke away from nonexistence because The Shopping Mall King has never “gotten any of this artsy stuff” and wouldn’t mind for the whole lot to go to work for Landmark. Glendale will jump on the slightest whiff of a project that has the potential for work (and that could postpone their unemployment a few more months).

    So you’ve got these four groups of people all screaming at the guys up top. And they’re concerned with other issues right now – like how to purge the company’s email system of that cartoon showing the Disney Studios as the U.S.S. Arizona just moments before the big special effects sequence starts. Worse still, all of this is being done on the fly: there was no contingency plan or budget to “rescue” California Adventure. The contingency plan was how to rescue Disneyland from DCA overpowering success (the plans included the electrical parade, Buzz and Pooh among others). No one in Corporate ever had the slightest conception that DCA wouldn’t be an immediate hit and they simply don’t know how to respond.

    There are all kinds of attraction proposals right now, and you’ll hear about scores more in the next several months. Almost all of them – even the “we’re renting the bulldozers now” projects like “Buzz Lightyear” can be cancelled and resurrected several times in the current state of corporate paralysis. Hell, if they can’t even get one of the dozen ‘Soaring’ clones for WDW approved, does anyone think they’re going to stand up for the $200 million ‘Tower’ clone?

    And finally a bit of heresy. I might not necessarily mind the clone of ‘Millionaire’ showing up out here. I would MUCH prefer a real show and an original concept, but it would offer something that DCA lacks – a real “Hollywood” experience in the “Hollywood” section of California Adventure. Sure, the show itself is pretty lame and the ratings are falling, but it’s something that most guest will understand. Done right, it could give a great “I walked into my TV set” feel that people go to Universal Hollywood to get. I missed the soft opening of the WDW version by a week, but the show seems to work based on what I’ve been reading.
     
  21. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    Voice - you are beautiful!!

    Someone once said that I reminded him of an Errol Flynn type, fighting for Walt's ideals. Of course I agreed, thus forever preventing me from ever posting a picture of myself!!

    You seem to have an inside track. And many of the Ei$ner defenders seem to give you a lot of leeway because of that implied authority. Now, of course we can't be certain. You may be a geeky seventeen year old that has a mature writing style and a line of BS a mile long. Or you could be a great grandmother gaming us all. But somehow I doubt it. There is knowledge in your posts. Authority in your style. I picture a darkened public garage. Nearly empty. At a little past dusk. And a shadowy voice is telling us to, "Follow the money". All the President's Men comes to my mind, every time I read you. You should have signed up not as Another Voice (though it is very appropriate). It should have been "Deep Throat"!!

    Thanks for another GREAT post!!

    If for nothing else, you gotta love the guy, just for this kind of stuff!! :cool:
     

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