Resale vs Direct (Again!)

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by TotallyADiz, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. TotallyADiz

    TotallyADiz Earning My Ears

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    Wow, I didn't expect to cause such a stir. Definitely didn't expect any negativity. But most of the feedback back is awesome and I appreciate everyone's comments (and welcome home's!). Right back at all of you!

    Just to clarify a few things. The reason for my long post wasn't because I was feeling guilty or conflicted really but more so because I know this is a subject that has been discussed (at length) and I wanted to give my perspective. I thought I was pretty clear in saying that from a purely $ standpoint it's hard to argue direct over resale and I certainly do not begrudge anyone from buying resale. By creating a "secondary market" like that keeps competition in play and helps with price. It also gives people an opportunity to get out of an obligation that they no longer want.

    I didn't go into the purchase blind and I'm not an idiot (well, not a complete idiot anyway :) My frame of mind was this: I am not purchasing simply to be in my "home resort". While I understand that is all any of us (including direct) is guaranteed, that is not what am I banking on. I am also interested is using my points for other dvc resorts (which currently any of us can do) as well as the other programs down the road. Again, I know those programs might not be available down the road but I am betting that they are...and even though they aren't a good value (to most) to use points for, I am projecting that in the future when the kids are grown we might not be using the points for wdw every year, it might be more sporadic and then I might want to use those points for adv, etc. instead of wasting them (i would never rent them, I just can't be bothered with it, it's a great idea but doesn't work for me personally for a number of reasons).

    So I viewed this whole transaction as "perceived risk". I perceived the risk of buying resale (to me and imho) that I might one day only be able to use my points in my home resort, wouldn't be able to use them in any extra programs now or in the future. I want those extra things. They are meaningful to me. I don't just want the home resort that we are guaranteed. Again I know that NONE OF US are guaranteed anything else but my "perceived risk" is that Disney is not going to cut the throats of their direct customers. They will always have these (or some other) perks for them. It just makes good business sense. So it is worth the premium to me to "bet on" the extras. I know it's a huge premium but for me it's worth it. If I had to be locked into my home resort forever with nothing else, it would be far less attractive for me (even at the 50% discount). That's just me.....and I view that as a major possible risk that might come tomorrow or 3 years from now.

    I also agree that Disney has to be careful with their decisions on this front but at the end of the day they have a business to run and will make decisions they feel benefits the majority of their client base. I want to make sure I am on the right side of that transaction. Is that paranoia, intimidation? I don't think so. More like calculating your risks for what you feel is important to you.

    ....and no I'm not a DVC salesperson but not sure why that is such a negative. The ones I've spoken with are very nice. They have a job to do. Some of them are giving their opinions or discussing what they've been told. It can be viewed as threat tactics but maybe it's just honesty. Either way, don't hate the mouse, that's why we all bought in and drank the kool aid....direct or resale!

    Welcome Home everyone!
     
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  3. DznyCrzy11

    DznyCrzy11 "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference wh

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    Great thread! DH and I are looking at the options of purchasing direct or resale. Right now direct is $165/pt w/$5 back on every pt purchased. I came across a resale website that showed $112/pt. I am leery of purchasing a resale as you never know who you can trust and how legit a company is. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good, reputable resale company?

    Sent from my Galaxy S II
     
  4. TotallyADiz

    TotallyADiz Earning My Ears

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    if you look at the top of the page you will see the sponsor The Timeshare Store (dvc-resales.com). I can't speak for them but it appears many many people on this board have used them successfully. Just read on this board. Lots of info.
     
  5. heynowirv

    heynowirv DIS Veteran

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    There 2 i dealt with first The Timeshare Store ,who sponsors this site and secondly Fidelity . They are both reputable and honest.I believe another is named DVC resales but i have not had any dealings with them. I'm sure others can fill you in on them. good luck and happy hunting.
     
  6. DznyCrzy11

    DznyCrzy11 "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference wh

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    Thank you!!! I checked BBB and they received an A+ rating, excellent!!! I'll check them out, hopefully I can find a good deal!

    Sent from my Galaxy S II
     
  7. TotallyADiz

    TotallyADiz Earning My Ears

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    Seem to be lots of good deals around. Looks like from your signature you have another trip back home coming up. Maybe if everything works out for you you might be able to go on that trip with your points and cancel your ressie! Although I would cancel anything until you had a new reservation! Not trying to jump the gun, just saying...........
     
  8. bakenatj

    bakenatj Mouseketeer

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    Fidelity is good to work with. If you find a contract with the right amount of points, don't be afraid to offer a lower price. The worst that can happen is they reject your offer. Good luck on finding a good contract.
     
  9. Missyrose

    Missyrose DIS Veteran

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    Don't pay $112 per point for BLT, you can easily find contracts for at least $20 per point less. Take a look at the ROFR thread to see what BLT contracts have been selling for.

    There are four major DVC resale companies, they're all legit and have many happy customers on this board. And despite what DVC salespeople tell you, there's nothing shady about buying a resale. The broker will pull point reports on the contract your buying twice in the purchase process to ensure you're getting the correct number of points the seller is advertising.

    Good luck with your decision!

    Edited to add: typically when you see a contract like the BLT contract you were looking at, having an asking price that is way higher than many of their other listings, it can mean the seller has a loan that needs to be paid off and that outlier of an asking price is what they need to get rid of their contract. These people typically have no room to negotiate.
     
  10. DznyCrzy11

    DznyCrzy11 "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference wh

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    I'll check them out too!

    Sent from my Galaxy S II
     
  11. DznyCrzy11

    DznyCrzy11 "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference wh

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    Ok, I found BLT for $90/pt!!! That seems like a great one to me. I'm going to keep looking though.

    Sent from my Galaxy S II
     
  12. DougEMG

    DougEMG DIS Veteran

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    I'm personally a big believer in buying resale when there is a big difference between resale pricing and direct pricing. And these days there is a big difference in the two for all the resorts. Once VGF comes out there of course won't be any resale market for VGF, so if you want to own there right away you'll only have one option, buy direct. And I'm sure that this is exactly why many owners are direct buyers, they wanted the resort when it came out.

    The major disadvantage to buying resale is that it can take a minimum of 2 months before you have access to your points. The other disadvantage to resale is that any resale purchases made after March 21, 2011 are not eligible to make reservations within the Concierge Collection, the Disney Collection or the Adventurer Collection. I don't use either of those 3 things so it isn't a problem for me. I was also never in a hurry to use my points so I didn't care even if it took me 5-6 months to get a contract resale.

    If I could have afforded to buy BWV direct when it first came out, I would have, instead I ended up waiting till I could afford to buy it resale (many years later).

    So my advice is buy only what you can afford, understand what it is you are buying and then enjoy what you've bought.

    P.S. Like ELMC I've come across a lot of people having to sell their DVC contract because they could no longer afford it and their loans are for more than resales are going for.
     
  13. DznyCrzy11

    DznyCrzy11 "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference wh

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    Those are some great points! I am having a difficult time seeing there being a benefit to me buying direct with the extra cost. We had tossed around the idea of financing or paying in full and it seems paying in full is the better way to go, considering there's still an additional monthly amount for dues.

    Sent from my Galaxy S II
     
  14. Goofy DVC

    Goofy DVC OKW member since 93

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    Congrats on your purchase.:goodvibesThere has been a lot of good feedback on this thread. We have 5 contracts, some direct and some resale. I have found that there are situations that can justify both. Our first two contracts were direct in 93, I don't think resale existed yet. Our next two were resale with great prices and loaded contracts. Our last purchase was direct again because we wanted a small BCV contract in our UY but waited for months with no luck. We then considered buying a contract resale with more points than we wanted or needed. The additional points increased the price to where it was close to equal the lower points direct from Disney. I know many will say "yes but now you have more points". Yes we would, and more MFs along with it until 2042. I also did not have the time or desire to rent those additional points every year. So what did we do? Bought direct from disney and got exactly the number of points we needed in our UY.
     
  15. disbound09

    disbound09 Mouseketeer DVC Gold

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    And there my friends you have a happy informed DVC owner. In the end do what is best for you and your family, and you will be a happy camper.:)
     
  16. eandesmom

    eandesmom I'm with Beast

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    I'd like to add my congrats as well. I was very disheartened to see anyone say that this was a "no pixie dust zone". I don't spend much time in this section of the DVC forums and it made me remember why. Everyone has the right to make whatever decision works best for them, and that they are comfortable with. Like you, I researched all options, and in my case spent close to 2 years stalking resale contracts and tracking direct pricing. I waited until I was truly comfortable with what I wanted, where I wanted and what I was willing to pay as well as potentially give up if not direct.

    I found myself looking hard at 2 things. First, I wanted a small contract to start, and an equal sized one later, should I decide I wanted to add on. I did want the benefits of direct. Small contracts go for more, and go quickly if and when they pop up and at some resorts that's not often. Finding a loaded one, in the use year I wanted, at the resorts I wanted really...became such a project to try and find and get before they were gone (and honestly I can only think of maybe 3 that have fit the bill at any time I looked and I looked a lot, on all 3 sites) it was discouraging. Sure, I could get more points for less $$. I didn't want that long term MF commitment to those extra points. It would be buying more than I needed which ultimately is spending more than I needed. Over the life of the contract, that is huge. Initial outlay more, long term, not so much.

    The restrictions did matter to me. I (frankly) don't care that they may not be the best use of points. Given where I live (not remotely close to FL!) I wanted to know I had that flexibility should I ever choose to use it. Doesn't mean I will but I'm not crazy about renting out my points either. Doesn't mean I won't but I wanted all my options. Yes, that is a luxury and I realize it.

    The bottom line, for me, was this. I could have continued to wait and stalk for that perfect contract or two. That could take a month, a year, or who knows. Closing, if it passes ROFR, a minimum of 60 days. Kicked back and you start over. Best case scenario, 60 days start to finish. Worst...I could still be looking (and yes have friends that are, several who are on their 3rd offer, having lost out in ROFR some first time buyers others adding on) during all that time I'd still be going to WDW. And I'd be paying cash, at a deluxe for two rooms, very potentially at rack rate if I had to due to schedule limitations. It was paying the cash for two deluxe rooms, at rack rate or low discounts that turned me to DVC in the first place. Well that and being a family of 6 :rotfl:

    I decided, for me, that was cash I'd be spending regardless. I knew what I’d been spending and what I’d continue to spend. My kids could be that much older by the time a perfect contract appeared. Too picky? Maybe. My right though. I felt I might as well spend it on a direct purchase, get what I want, how I want, when I want and take my trips now. The cash value (rack rate) of the trips I will have taken since I purchased is close to what my investment was. Not quite there yet but only 1 trip away. I realize that doesn't account for MF's but still, for me, I feel the investment itself is almost paid off, inflated price or not. Would resale have paid off much faster? Of course. Would I have missed out on the first 2 trips trying to find the contract? Most likely. Did I get a full extra trip out of it that I wouldn't have otherwise? Yes. What would I have to show for it if I’d have paid cash for those trips? Nothing. Will I add on again direct or resale? I don't know. I'm not opposed to resale at all but I can't say I wouldn't go direct again either. I don't see the need for more points than we have, nor do I want more MF's. I'll always "want" more, but I don't "need" them.

    For me, the current pricing is too high on the active resorts. For me. That's all that really matters, what works for me. Heck it's high everywhere, that's just a fact. I do find it interesting that everyone tosses around the $165 number, which is BLT and isn't being actively marketed. Pricing as of today for the two actively being marketed is $140 for AKV and Aulani, both with promotions available (slated for another $5pp increase in March). I have no regrets about my purchases (SSR and BWV). The ability to book my NYE reservation with a Boardwalk view because my contract moved so quickly, for a once in a lifetime family event? Priceless. The ability to get Vero before my cruise the day points were in my account at less than 7 months? Amazing. These trips and resorts simply wouldn't have happened (at least not in DVC accommodations and in the case of Vero, at all) or be scheduled had I bought resale with the timing I had. It is, for me, as simple as that.

    If you've done your homework and feel you are making an informed decision that works for you, others are certainly welcome to disagree, I respect that entirely. I imagine someone will slam my math and they are welcome to. I am happy and that's all that matters. I think you should still get pixie dust and congrats.

    No matter how your membership came to be I would like to say to any and all

    Welcome Home pixiedust:
     
  17. nunzia

    nunzia You can't top pigs with pigs, but you CAN top Toys

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    I agree with this as long as people understand and are not bothered by the restrictions. I also believe that if you only have resale points in your membership you are not able to take the Member's Cruise..I thought that was odd since you ARE a member, and after all, the cruise is not called "Direct Purchaser Member Cruise" :) I never thought I'd use points outside of the norm, but it came up where a son and family wanted to join us and all the villas were booked so we used points at DLH (which has since gone up to ridiculous levels). I still will buy direct since I want a specific number at my home resort and those points are rare, especially in my use year for some reason. So..still waiting for that VGC contract to come available direct.
     
  18. TotallyADiz

    TotallyADiz Earning My Ears

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    Thanks for all that feedback. That's exactly the way I feel! You didn't ramble as much as I did though:)

    You make an excellent point too about whether or not you will miss a trip (or two or three...) while waiting for the right contract (and rofr and closing, etc.). Because depending on where you are staying it could cost you many thousands each trip. I know before I just purchased I had already booked and paid for a trip which I then was able to cancel and rebook with points. That alone saved me over $10k. I also have another trip now booked for end of the year which I may/may not have been able to do with a resale (depending on all the variables) and that trip saved me another $10k (room only for 10days 2br villa). So even though I bought direct I look at that as saving me $20k that I would have definitely spent anyway (with discounts) on trips that I was taking anyway. I know the other option is to have rented out points but I would never do that (for a list of my own personal reasons) and to me, if you wouldn't really consider it, then it's not really an option for you.

    There really are so many moving parts to consider between: use year, home resort (since there are big price differences), financing, resale vs direct, point rentals, etc. So you really do need to view this decision from many different angles and the financial part of that is VERY important and not to be overlooked....but.....it's not always just about that and not always black or white. To me there are many shades of grey in between.

    Anyway.........pixiedust: right back at ya
     
  19. TotallyADiz

    TotallyADiz Earning My Ears

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    That's actually a good point as well. While I think most people on here who buy resale will probably rather save thou$ands then go on a "member cruise" (I'm just guessing), it really is interesting that Dis took that particular item away. That's actually what I found a bit telling. I think they were trying to send a message (clearly) that there will be different treatment starting now (March 2011) and will be more to come in the future.....and while I understand Dis's position to some degree I think they need to be careful by not calling ALL dvc owners "members". Because we are ALL members. We are all patrons, customers, clients of Dis. We love their company and products which is why we bought in. I think a better way for them to do it would be for them to create "share classes". If you only want to stay at a WDW dvc resort, that's one share class (and you can buy resale), if you want the other perks, that's another "share class" (and you buy direct), etc....and if one of the perks is the "member cruise" then they should rename it and call it a "special sailing" or something and only make it available to the "other share class". That just seems less offensive to me.
     
  20. WebmasterDoc

    WebmasterDoc Administrator Administrator

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    When we purchased (direct) in 1993 the minimum point purchase had just been lowered to 190 - down from 230. In the contracts at that time was a caveat that those who purchased at the minimum may not be able to enjoy all benefits of the DVC program.

    All of the videos and literature at that time were based on 230 points - including the World Passport Collection. All of the examples used in the presentation were still demonstrating how 230 points could be used and even have points left-over for the next year. When they lowered the minimum to 190 some members might be excluded from those examples.

    DVC has been doing this for years now, so there is nothing new about restrictions. Two years ago at the DVC Annual Meeting, then-President Jim Lewis touched on a tiered membership rewards program based on the number of points owned and number of referrals made. No details were offered - just that this was in the works. While nothing further (so far) has come from that announcement, it is apparent that in DVC's eye not all members are equal going back years into the program. The resale exclusions of 2 years ago are just a reminder of that fact and a warning that even those who purchase buy direct could be affected by restrictions (like the inability to use DVC points for DCL cruises at times even for those purchasing direct).
     
  21. bakerworld

    bakerworld DIS Veteran

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    My problem with resale buying is my husband likes to 'finance' the loan and doesn't want to put it on our home. DVC's rate is cheaper than a personal loan by 2% so....:stir:
     

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