Question for hospital Nurses

Discussion in 'Community Board' started by JoiseyMom, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. JoiseyMom

    JoiseyMom <font color=orange>Have you had your SPANX today??

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,157
    If a family of a patient says they can't put in a foley (they tried 2x and couldn't do it, and the 100 year old patient was SCREAMING in pain), can they turn around, after the family leaves and do it anyway? Isn't that violating the patients rights?
     
  2. Avatar

    Google AdSense Guest Advertisement


    to hide this advert.
  3. dzneelvr

    dzneelvr A Disney Dolly<br><font color=deeppink>Doesn't min

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,955
    This truly is not a question that could be answered by anyone not directly involved in the program of care for this specific patient. You should be asking the care providers at the facility the patient was treated in.
     
  4. JoiseyMom

    JoiseyMom <font color=orange>Have you had your SPANX today??

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,157

    You mean the nasty women who have given my DH lots of lies and excuses and now ignoring him? Seriously?

    So rules are different in different hospitals? Some will ignore what a patient wants and others will not? :confused3
     
  5. Handbag Lady

    Handbag Lady Disneyland Bride 2000

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2005
    Messages:
    11,616
    Go to a hospital administrator and find out. You need to go above the caregivers.
     
  6. happygirl

    happygirl DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,194
    I think her care plan needs to be followed. some patients can;t make good choices for themselves.
     
  7. RitaE

    RitaE DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,207
    The hospital should have a patient advocate. That is who you need to contact.

    It is hard to say anything without knowing the specifics of the patient and the care received.
     
  8. MomRN

    MomRN DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    946
    Generally, alert and oriented patients have the right to refuse anything. I would need more information to express my opinion on whether putting the catheter in was justified, which may include conversations that occurred after family left.

    Take it to the nursing care manager of the unit.
     
  9. NewmanFamily6

    NewmanFamily6 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    517
    As a RN absolutely not they should not go against family wishes even if the physician ordered it. Nurses are patient advocates. She is 100 yrs old and screaming in pain. If she is unable to make decisions it is up to the family. Go to hospital administration.
     
  10. BearcatsFan

    BearcatsFan <font color=green>we finally had a minute to breat

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    8,097
    I don't have any advice. I just want to say I'm sorry for what your family is going through. :hug:
     
  11. abbadackerygirl

    abbadackerygirl Earning My Ears

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    47
    Our 84 year old grandmother got bedsores because she was neglected at a supposedly great hospital. We contacted the head nurse and she was horrified at the lack of care her nurses were giving. I would definitely contact the administrator, and if you get nowhere with that, contact his/her boss. Keep going up until you get what you want from them.

    Unfortunately though, they may have had no choice but to administer a foley if she wasn't able to urinate on her own. Was she able to use a bed pan?
     
  12. badblackpug

    badblackpug <font color=blue>If you knew her you would be shoc

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    4,089
    there are way to many variables missing from this story to give an opinion.

    1) Why did she need the foley?
    2) Is she mentally competent
    B) If not, does she have a durable power of attorney?
    3) Does she have an advanced directive or living will that states what procedures are acceptable and what are not?
    4) Who placed the foley?
     
  13. disfan07

    disfan07 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,465
    If she has an advance directive that states only comfort measures, the foley might actually be a comfort measure. If she cannot urinate, that can also be excruciatingly painful (believe me...been there done that).

    Who is responsible for her care? She should have an advance directive at that age....everyone should have an advance directive. I have an advance directive at age 23 because of my chronic health issues.

    The problem is, if she is not mentally competent, no advance directive and no POA, etc, things could get sticky.....

    There's no clear cut answer and it's not as simple as yes or no. Wheni was creating my advance directive it was amazing the things we had to consider (pain meds, ventilator, foley cath, fluids, addition meds, CPR, etc) it's definitely not cut and dry.

    This is why, no matter how difficult of a conversation it is, EVERYONE needs to have this discussion abut their medical wishes and create an advance directive.
     
  14. shinysparklybubbles

    shinysparklybubbles DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,418
    Every time my son was in the hospital there was a paper posted in every room with a number to call if you were unhappy with care. Take a look around in the drawers or bathroom for a number.
     
  15. epcotfan

    epcotfan http://youtube.com/wdwchannel1

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Messages:
    4,833
    Depends on Dr's orders and the patient care plan/advance directives. Who is their advocate if they are mentally incompetent of making decisions for their care?
     
  16. LoserMomma

    LoserMomma Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    239
    Hospitals are obligated to tell you who to contact if you're not satisfied. Being that it's a weekend, that individual is probably not on site until Monday. However, there is usually a nursing supervisor on duty during non-business hours. I'd take this route: nurse, charge nurse, nursing supervisor


    They may have also found someone who was more skilled with difficult insertions who could get it in without as much discomfort. If the patient is competent, it's not the family's decision, it's the patients.
     
  17. Disney  Doll

    Disney Doll DIS Security Matron

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2000
    Messages:
    27,812
    Not necessarily.
    But there's not enough information to make any kind of judgement.

    Some things that would play into the decision to attempt again to insert a Foley:
    1. What are the consequences/how much discomfort will there be if we don't insert a Foley? Sometimes 5 minutes of discomfort is worth it to prevent severe complications.
    2. Can the Foley be inserted by someone else who might have a better technique for a difficult insertion?
    3. Is the patient competent? If so, what the family thinks has no bearing.

    Since you are calling the nurses nasty women who are ignoring your husband, I'm guessing we're not going to get a real unbiased amount of information.

    I'm also guessing that the nurses might be a bit more willing to talk to your husband if they weren't being referred to as "nasty women".

    I wish your family member well.
     
  18. JoiseyMom

    JoiseyMom <font color=orange>Have you had your SPANX today??

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,157
    She broke her hip and was in the ER where they tried to insert it the first time and could not. Once she was admitted the asst. nurse manager tried to and could not.

    No, she is not mentally competent.
    Yes, she does, her son (who is my fil) has it. He was in FL, and gave told them my DH and BIL have the right to deal with her care. (Yes he should have done this before he went to FL, and I am going to make sure if she survives surgery tomorrow (broken hip) that he give DH and BIL medical poa when he is not here).
    She has a DNR.
    It was placed after DH went home, and he thinks it was the asst. nurse manager. But she was told not to try again since she was fighting it.

    She can not use a bed pan, she is in adult diapers.
     
  19. JoiseyMom

    JoiseyMom <font color=orange>Have you had your SPANX today??

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    7,157
    First of all DH didn't call them nasty to their faces. He was texting me his frustrations. And there was no reason for them to be nasty and unprofessional to my DH. NONE. Beleive me, my DH is not one to complain about behavior unless it is really bad. DH had been nice and great and sweet, but not when his wishes for his grandmothers care aren't being listened too. That is frustrating. His grandmother is 100 years old, has a broken hip, that if they don't fix, she will probably die in bed in a few months (medical opinion), but there is a good chance she won't survive the surgery, but has to have it. So he is dealing with the fact that his grandmother is going to die very soon. He is dealing with all the care since his father is out of town, and couldn't get in until this evening. He is stressed, and sad, and frustrated. And when he told them not to, they should have listened and not given him attitude and ignored him after wards.

    And yes, I gave him the number of the advocate (they are there over the weekend). We also know the chief of the ER, and I wish he would have called him, but DH hates playing that card unless he has too. I want him to file a complaint, but it is up to him to do it. We have been taking turns at the hospital and I wasn't there when this happened. Even her private aides had gone home.

    DH went tonite to pick up his dad, and I stayed there with her to make sure she was ok, until he brought his dad there. They changed shifts while I was there and the night nurse seemed nice. Heck, visiting hours end at 8 pm and we were there until 11:30 PM. Heck my DS and DIL came after 10 PM.But what is done is done. I know I really wasn't comfortable leaving her alone there tonight, but it isn't my call. I have spent more time in the hospital over the past two days then I have with my kids.

    Sorry for venting, I know nurses work hard and there are alot of you there, but this is frustrating which I why I asked if there was a procedure. Before this happened, DH was very happy with the nursing care.

    Ok...off to sleep, tomorrow is going to be a long day.
     
  20. badblackpug

    badblackpug <font color=blue>If you knew her you would be shoc

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    4,089

    Okay, with a little more information. No, whomever placed the foley shouldn't have if your husband told them explicitly "no foley," (unless they cleared it with his father) but the reason they did probably place it was for her comfort. With a broken hip it is very, very painful to roll her to change her pamper every time she is wet. With the foley, it was a one-time pain. I'm not excusing them doing something against your wishes, just explaining that they were, probably, doing it with her comfort in mind.

    Regardless of your husband's relationship with the EM chief, if the foley was placed on the floor, or by another department other than the ER he can't do anything for you.

    Broken hips in someone so elderly is such a rotten thing. (as an aside, if she lives in a nursing home please investigate how she fell) That really stinks to have to go through this.

    Most importantly, make sure she is getting adequate pain relief. If she has dementia she may not ask for pain medicine.

    Good luck.
     
  21. chloelovesdisney

    chloelovesdisney DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,611
    If she has a broken hip, she's much better off with a foley in place. Perhaps they gave her some pain medicine and she was more relaxed so they were able to insert it with less difficulty. I assure you, it would be much worse for her and more painful to continually have her diaper changed with a broken hip.
     

Share This Page