Print color - what am I doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Photography Board' started by MarkBarbieri, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    My prints are coming out with a magenta cast and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. My monitor is calibrated. I'm printing using CS2. I'm using a Canon i9900. I'm printing on Canon Photo Paper Pro. Here are the steps I'm taking:

    1) First, I'm going to View|Proof Setup|Custom and making the following selections: Device to Simulate = Canon i9900 PR1, Preserve RGB Numbers unchecked, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked. Simulate Paper color checked.

    2) I select View|Proof Colors. I should now be seeing the best approximation that my monitor can make of how my print will look on that printer. The picture looks fine.

    3) I go to File|Print With Preview.

    4) On the Color Management settings, I make the following selections: Print = Document (not proof), Color Handling = Let Photoshop Determine Colors, Printer Profile = Canon i9900 PR1, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked.

    5) On my printer properties, I have color adjustment set to Manual. Within that, I have ICM unchecked and Print Type set to None. Presumably this means that the printer will do no color managing.

    When I print, I have the printer driver do a preview and the print it shows me on the screen looks good. When I print it, it has a significant magenta cast.

    I'd swear that this process used to work. I've tested the print heads and all that stuff and the printer appears to be working fine. I suspect that I'm doing something stupid, but I can't figure out what it is and I'm tired of wasting ink. Any suggestions?
     
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  3. extreme8

    extreme8 Mouseketeer

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    I don't know a heck of a lot about the Canon printers but on my Epson I have a seperate printer profile for each paper stock, not just a single profile for the printer.
    Using the wrong paper profile causes all sorts of unpredictible color shifts on my stuff.

    I realize you're fully up to speed on colorspace issues, but is it possible something changed there without you realizing it?
     
  4. MICKEY88

    MICKEY88 <font color=purple>if you keep falling off of the

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    I don't know anything about your printer either, but I would second the thought of the paper profile.

    also with my HP photo printer, my pics get a magenta cast to them when one of my ink cartridges is low..
     
  5. Anewman

    Anewman <font color=green>Likes it topped with relish<br><

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    Sounds like it should work.

    But I have always wondered why we turn color management off on the printer end.
     
  6. Groucho

    Groucho <font color=blue>Why a duck?<br><font color=purple

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    I don't have specific answers but I do know that sometimes we have the tendency to think that we know more than the software and hardware do, and that's not always the case. :lmao:

    I'd try leaving some of the printer color management on. Presumably you don't get these tinted prints if you just leave everything on the default settings, so it must be one of the settings you've changed that's made things worse. Try to figure out how the printer wants you to use it, not the other way around.
     
  7. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    The Canon i9900 PR1 profile is a for the printer (i9900) and the paper (PR1 = Photo Paper Pro in some bizarre Canon world).

    It's entirely possible that I've screwed something up with the colorspaces (after all, if nothing was wrong my prints would be working), but I can't think of what it is. The most frustrating thing is that the print preview generated by the printer driver looks perfect. I'm tempted to just chuck it an by an Epson printer. Everyone I know that manages their colors uses an Epson, so I could rely on local help if I switched.
     
  8. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    My first thought was that it was an ink problem. I checked all my heads and cartridges and everything looks OK. I strongly suspect that the printer is still trying to color manage for some reason.
     
  9. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    I was getting decent prints before I started managing color. However, the colors on my prints were often different from what was on my screen. I started researching color management and was able to get much more accurate color out of my prints. The problem is that I quit printing for several months and now that I'm going back to it, I can't get it to work right anymore.

    From what I learned with color management, someone (the printing software, printer driver, or printer) has to translate from the photo (and it's assigned colorspace) to the colorspace internal to the printer. The advantage of having Photoshop do that for you is that it gives you complete flexilibity in working colorspaces and it allows you to do soft proofing.

    Soft proofing is where Photoshop translates your photo to the colorspace of the output device and displays it as closely as possible to how the print will look (given the limitations of your monitor). I often use this capability to make adjustments to the picture to make the print look more like how I want it to look. Doing that with soft proofing rather than a "guess, print, review, repeat" cycle saves a lot of time and money.

    If you have Photoshop doing your color management, you can't also have your printer doing it. If you do that, the colors will be corrected twice with the results being "overcorrected" and looking wrong. Because of that, it is important that you tell Photoshop that it is to perform the color manament on the prints and tell your printer that it is not to do any color management. Assuming that you have an accurate ICC file for your printer, ink, and paper combination, the results should be pretty accurate. The results I'm getting look suspiciously like the printer is still trying to manage the color. I'm either botching a setting someplace, there is something wrong with my printer/ink/paper, or evil spirits are conspiring against me.

    Thanks for all of the suggestions. BQ PM'd me to suggest that I try turning off the black point compensation as the guide Canon puts out on printing using color management suggests that you don't use it. I don't see how it could be the problem, but then I don't understand it either. I insist on making color management work again and I don't have any other ideas, so I'll try it.
     
  10. mabas9395

    mabas9395 I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I

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    Are you using the official Canon ink cartridge? We picked up the cheaper Staples version of our printer's ink cartridge and I don't like the color at all!
     
  11. Disney Ella

    Disney Ella DIS Veteran

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    Did you print any documents in color on that printer while you weren't printing photographs? I used to have a laser printer and an inkjet printer and would use the laser printer much more than the inkjet printer. If I didn't use the inkjet printer at least every few days, something happened and the photos had either a yellow or blue tint, even though the cartridges were full. Print head cleaning didn't help and neither did totally new cartridges. I had to get rid of two inkjet printers before I finally gave up on the whole idea of printing any photos at home.
     
  12. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    I do most of my printing on a color laser jet. I use the i9900 strictly for photos, mostly because the cost of ink is so insanely high. I've tried some cheaper third party inks but have not been happy at all.

    While it is possible that the ink has somehow spoiled, I don't find that likely. When I do a print head test, all of the heads fire properly, the alignment looks good, and the individual colors look OK (not that I have a reference chart to compare them to). I'm almost certain that the physical characteristics aren't the problem. I'm convinced that I'm either making a user error or that there is a bug somewhere in the process and the color management isn't working correctly.
     
  13. H.E. Pennypacker

    H.E. Pennypacker "Paging Mr. Morrow, Mr. Tom Morrow. Your party fr

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    Maybe try printing from some other application other than CS2 (one that doesn't support color management) and let the printer do it's thing. If it still comes out with a magenta cast, check out the properties of the printer itself (you know, right click on the printer from within the Printers folder.) Maybe you've got a whacky profile assigned as the default profile in the printer properties settings.
     
  14. Anewman

    Anewman <font color=green>Likes it topped with relish<br><

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    I have not printed at home in a long while, but what if photoshop is managing colors assuming that the printer is using a certain profile that is being turned off by unchecking ICM?

    I dont see color management as "correcting" colors, I see it more as how do I get the current colors to print the same on the output device. Maybe turning off ICM is what results in corrections because the image is no longer being managed, checking it may tell the printer to print exactly as Photoshop wants it to be.
     
  15. SharonLowe

    SharonLowe DIS Veteran

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    Somehow, I believe the printer is still trying to manage the colors. I accidently forgot to tell my Epson not to color manage and had PS set to be the color manager. All the prints came out with a heavy magenta color cast. If you were happy with the prints with the printer doing the color management, turn it off in PS and go back to what you were doing.
     
  16. safetymom

    safetymom Super Moderator

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    You have to make sure that your monitor is seeing the image correctly first. Did you ever walk into a store that sold tv's and noticed that they all looked different? That's ok for tv's but not for monitors and printers.

    You need to calibrate your monitor so it is seeing the colors correctly. Then you need to use a profile in Photoshop and probably turn off Color management on your printer. If you leave it on the printer then you have two sources managing the colors.

    I have an Epson so I calibrate my monitor, then pick the correct paper profile in Photoshop , and then when I go to print I turn off color management in the printer driver. My pictures turn out wonderful this way.
     
  17. 0bli0

    0bli0 2006 Time Magazine Person of the Year

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    i've never had decent results letting cs2/cs3 manage the colours. now i print in aperture using the specific printer/paper profile. i then also go into the printer's dialogue box and making sure the appropriate general settings are right for the paper as well (thicker paper, matte/gloss, scaling, etc.).

    just out of curiosity, if you try to print the image from another app, do you get the same magenta cast?
     
  18. Groucho

    Groucho <font color=blue>Why a duck?<br><font color=purple

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    I vote for just giving up and buying an Epson. :thumbsup2 :lmao:
     
  19. MarkBarbieri

    MarkBarbieri Semi-retired

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    Black Point Correction Unchecked - No change
    Converting to Adobe RGB before printing - No change
    Turning off color management in Photoshop and letting the printer manage the color - Still with a magenta cast
    Converting to sRGB and printing from another app - Still with a magenta cast

    I'm pretty sure that it's a printer problem. Anyone got $1,200 they want to donate so I can get an Epson 3800?
     
  20. boBQuincy

    boBQuincy <font color=green>I am not carrying three pods<br>

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    Fear, anger, pigment inks... the dark side are they! ;)
     
  21. boBQuincy

    boBQuincy <font color=green>I am not carrying three pods<br>

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    My i9900 was printing faint lines across the page but the nozzle checks didn't show anything wrong. It may be possible your printhead has a problem with whatever is the opposite of magenta.

    Try printing some pure color bars and examining them under a magnifier. Other than that, new printheads are available for about $100 as I recall (try *that* with an Epson). :)
     

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