Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

Discussion in 'Disney Cruise Line Forum' started by dskib, May 20, 2013.

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  1. galatea210

    galatea210 Earning My Ears

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    Debating about when he was identified is pointless. Anyone who knows of a crime being committed, particularly sexual abuse of a minor, is supposed to report that crime when it happens, regardless of whether or not the perpetrator has been identified. The cruise ship staff should have notified local police as soon as the crime was reported or discovered, and should have let Florida police figure out who the perpetrator was.

    Whether the grandmother wanted to press charges, whether Bahamas law is different from US law, whether the man was identified before or after the cruise ship departed are all irrelevant issues. The only thing that matters is that cruise ship staff knew a crime had been committed while the boat was still docked on US soil and purposely did not report that crime as REQUIRED in order to avoid being delayed.
     
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  3. justmestace

    justmestace <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i

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    Yes, the law is different. If it had been reported when it happened, in Florida, the State would prosecute without the grandmother.
     
  4. Silverfox97

    Silverfox97 PLATINUM Castaway Club

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    Main dining is 5:45-7 or 7:30 at the latest. Late dining begins at 8:15pm. I wonder why he wouldn't have been at early dining and roaming the ship as well.....

    Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
     
  5. Twinprincesses

    Twinprincesses DIS Veteran

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    It sounded to me like he was pulled off his dining room duty so he was not working his shift.
     
  6. TDC Nala

    TDC Nala <font color=red>1937, what a year that was<br><fon Moderator

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    From what has been written here, no video was released of a minor being attacked. There was a video taken by the ship's surveillance cameras of the perpetrator entering the elevator with the victim. It doesn't say there was actual footage of her being groped. Although a lot of places have surveillance cameras actually in the elevators.

    What DCL did was probably not outside legal parameters and they will likely not get into any (criminal) legal trouble for it. Probably not any civil legal trouble either, as the victim is not a resident of the US. But if the ship was still sitting in port when the perpetrator was identified, it is a bad move from a public relations standpoint at the very least for them not to have the police in while still in Florida to have him arrested, rather than taking him to the Bahamas for disposition there. All the postings that say it wouldn't have been necessary for the grandmother to press charges for him to be arrested are accurate - in Florida. It may not be the same in the Bahamas - apparently it is not the same in the Bahamas.

    Thinking they weren't trying to protect the employee as they had him taken into custody in the Bahamas. He actually confessed to the police in the Bahamas, not while he was still onboard.

    It's one of two things: either they didn't get it together enough to call the local police before the ship left port, going up and down the chain of command, what have you (the thing to do would have been for Guest Services to call the police as soon as the victim reported the crime) or they didn't want to delay departure for an indefinite period of time as the police came onboard, interviewed the victim, interviewed the crew, interviewed the grandmother, checked the scene, etc.

    Disney is not going to give them millions unless they sue. The child is not a resident of the US, apparently she is a resident of Brazil. It may be difficult for a resident of Brazil to bring a civil case in the US, mostly because of the possibilty that she or someone on her behalf might need to travel to the US in order to put in court appearances. A lawyer could do that for them, it would depend on if a jury is less likely to give a sizeable award to a plaintiff who does not appear in court themselves.
     
  7. abdmom

    abdmom DIS Veteran

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    The video of the minor being attacked is here: ClickOrlando

    Add me to those who are very disgusted by Disney's actions.
     
  8. ZoeBell

    ZoeBell Mouseketeer

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    OMG after seeing the full video I am disgusted at Disney. Absolutely disgusted.

    If this was my kid heads would be rolling.
     
  9. tinkerone

    tinkerone DIS Veteran

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    i don't know, as someone said in a pp, there is a chain of command and there are steps that need to be taken. i'm not so sure that the time line allowed for reporting before sailing.
    the girl and gm went to guest services at 3:03
    security was called and started to investigate at 3:22
    at 3:57 the girl walked secruity to the elevator
    the security officer then reviewed the tape
    at 4:48 the tape was shown to the dinning room manager
    at 5:02 the ship sailed
    being that there would have been conversations with everyone involved it is not beyond scope that the ship would sail without the captain knowing what was going on.
    and if the person were NOT guilty and they would have been handed over to the police to talk with this thread would be a brow beat of that event.
    do i think that it was handled properly? well, it could have been handled differently but it probably was handled properly. do i think disney did their best to control the situation? yes.
    "The suspect continued to roam the ship until 7:50 p.m., when he was called to the security office and, under questioning, denied molesting the girl, according to the DCL report. He was then “removed from the floor” and, apparently, kept from encountering children."
    innocent till proven guilty is our way is it not? he was handed over to police, maybe not the way we would have like him to be but he was handed over.
    this is a crime that should be punished to the fullest! today we can't change that its not. one day we will.
    it always amazes me that people let younger children roam the ship alone. we get so comfortable with the people on the ship yet we don't know them, not truly. and as much as disney is named it could be any cruise line, children roam alone on them all. some people are happy this one is a disney ship. one more good blow to the big bad corporation. lets keep prospective. its a crime that took place on a cruise ship in an industry that could use stricter guidelines. i just hope we learn from it and take better care of the little ones we love.
     
  10. OrangeCountyCommuter

    OrangeCountyCommuter DIS Veteran

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    I saw the video. Unfortunately it's not exactly conclusive evidence of anything.

    Now they should have done something and they screwed up by the numbers.

    (However, I admit that the police department's "indignation" is one of those "of course we would have done something" As someone who has reported child abuse, I am skeptical! It's a lot easier to "claim we would have acted" but unfortunately I have seen "we will get there when we get there" unless you wind up with a life threatening issue! I got action by saying "if you are not here in half an hour I am calling the Chief and the local news media" That worked but.... )
     
  11. ColoradoDisneyFreaks

    ColoradoDisneyFreaks DIS Veteran

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    When I worked for an air ambulance company, we never had a patient "die" on our aircraft either. The reason being that a nurse, EMT or paramedic can't legally call time of death in emergency transport, only a doctor can, this may also apply in Disney. So, while it sure sounds good as a criticism, legally it's how it has to be.
     
  12. Rogillio

    Rogillio DIS Veteran

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    I was thinking along the same lines. Right in the middle of all this was the madatory emergency drill that requires all passengers and crew participation.

    Someone said she was a Brazil native. Portuguese is the native language of Brazil. Did the child speak fluent enough English? Did the grandparents speak fluent English? Did they need to find a CM who spoke Portuguese?

    I know we would like to think the world stops when our children are involved but there are 4,000+ people on that ship and things get really hectic when it comes time to cast off. We don't know what other 'issues' the officers and crew were working in parallel to this incident. There could have been medical emergencies. There could have been other security issues that they were dealing with. Maybe there was a report of someone bringing a gun on board, maybe there were terrorist threats, maybe someone just had a heart attack.

    Point being, no one here knows all the details. That's the reason we have investigations and courts of law to flush out the truth. I posted previously that the Cpt and Security officer should be fired.....having gotten past my initial knee-jerk reaction, that was a stupid comment! Clearly an investigation of what happened and how it was handled needs to be conducted. So lets not lynch anyone just yet.....
     
  13. Rogillio

    Rogillio DIS Veteran

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    Yeah, I retract my comment. It is not clear yet that DCL did anything wrong. Circumstantionally it might appear that they might could have notified the PC police before setting sail but that appears to be the ONLY mistake. And based on the timeline of events, it's not even clear that this was possible.
     
  14. justmestace

    justmestace <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i

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    Another thing that large corporations such as Disney know, is that most people can't AFFORD to take them to court.
    This family, not being U.S. citizens, are probably at an even bigger disadvantage, not only due to their physical location, but in not understanding our laws, not being able to find an attorney who might do pro bono cases.....any number of things.

    We aren't wealthy, but we also are definitely not poor, but I know I wouldn't stand a chance at suing a company the size of Disney.
    And when something DID happen to me onboard, I was told that they had video proof for me, to help with my claim, once we got back to the States, and I trusted them. I'd cruised with DCL 11 times in 9 years, why wouldn't I trust them? But guess what happened when I got home?
    I was told "There is no video, you have no claim.". End of story. Major disappointment and eternal mistrust.
     
  15. Rogillio

    Rogillio DIS Veteran

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    There are thousands of lawyers who would LOVE to get a chance at a big DCL settlement and would take their case or your case pro bono in a NY minute if they thought there was chance of winning. I work for a large corporation and can tell you, there are lawers who will sue at the drop of a hat if there is even a remote chance of winning.
     
  16. tinkerone

    tinkerone DIS Veteran

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    make no mistake, if there is ANY chance theres a law suite waiting to happen there would be ten law firms all over this. yes disney is big but thats what would make this appealing to law firms. if you have a case theres big dollars to go with the big company. yes disney has tons of lawyers and it would take a long time to settle, it would still be worth it to several law firms. they would take their pay at the end and no one would have to come up with money up front. i don't see disneys being big preventing a legit law suite. sorry.
     
  17. justmestace

    justmestace <br><img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/i

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    In my case I didn't want to sue. My trip was ruined on day one with 3 broken ribs and a sprained wrist due to CM negligence. Even half a cruise credit would have made me not feel so bitter....although I am cruising DCL again, so I'm obviously not holding a grudge. But in this little girl's case, they might not even know where to begin any kind of process.
    I'm also leaning toward believing that DCL may have paid for their cruise, which for them might have been enough to feel like putting it in the past and moving on.
     
  18. disney aviator

    disney aviator Mouseketeer

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    Agreed!!
     
  19. Empress Room

    Empress Room Mouseketeer

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    There is really nothing in the video that conclusively depicts any criminal conduct, and the criminal conduct was not established until the suspect confessed to the Bahamian police the following day. At that point, the grandmother (for reasons known only to her) chose not to pursue the prosecution (a prerequisite). DCL then apparently followed protocol and his contract and shipped him back to India.

    Although the video appears to show something inappropriate, it really shows nothing. Did the suspect lean in because the victim was crying or asking for help? Was there someone else in the elevator he was addressing or assisting? Did a panel in the elevator swing loose and strike the girl in the face so he leaned in to assist? We now know that this wasn't the case, but DCL, fourteen minutes before it was scheduled to depart, did not and really could not confirm it through the video.

    Don't forget, these local "investigative reporters" tend to be sensationalists and present their stories in the most damning manner to the entity or person being "investigated." They do not make a living by being "fair" or presenting both (or multiple) sides to a story.

    As stated above, the accusations did confirm the initial complaint, but only because of the suspect's confession, at which point DCL did exactly what was required of it. An unfortunate situation all the way around. Thankfully, he is gone. But criminal activity can occur in almost any setting, particularly one involving 3500 people in a confined area where children are present.
     
  20. disneymagicgirl

    disneymagicgirl Been there, Done that, Going back!

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    It seems to me that local authorities should have been called when she went to guest services, which was around 3pm. I don't see why it is DCLs job to investigate an alleged crime over the police. They could have called police and then started their own investigation on the side. I also don't understand why the guy wasn't held onboard and turned over to PC police when the cruise ended. And I completely agree with the PP that said if this were another cruise line there would be 25 pages of criticism by now.
     
  21. ZoeBell

    ZoeBell Mouseketeer

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    That's where my disgust comes in. Instead of calling authority or holding the CM until they could get to authorities, they took it upon themselves to let the guy go. Sorry I don't believe they followed any Disney rules for letting the guy go. What if this guy raped this little girl or murdered her? Would they have followed the same course of actions? IMO, they wanted this guy and this incident to go away. So they made it happen. Like I said disgusting.

    Also so what if the grandmother didn't want to press charges? Maybe she was pressed by Disney not to? Regardless of her reasons, like Disney it's not her call to make in criminal cases.
     
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