Nikon Announces D5 & D500

[xlxo]

Just announced...

 

[dmaxphil]

Re: D500 ISO 100 to 51200, expandable to Hi 5 (ISO 1640000 equivalent)

Big numbers

 

[SkaGoat]

So the D500 is Nikon's answer to the Canon 7D Mk II. released 15 months later. *Slow clap*

 

[havoc315]

Anybody want to hire me for $6500 to do a day's shooting?

..... But I'm looking forward to some of the technology in these cameras working down the line. Especially the AF system which will certainly make it into the D7200/D750/D810 successors.

And I'm curious about automatic AF tuning.

 

[havoc315]

So the D500 is Nikon's answer to the Canon 7D Mk II. released 15 months later. *Slow clap*

Actually, it's simply their own successor to the D300.

This whole brand war is simply a silly way to look at it. It would be like saying that the Canon 5ds was Canon's answer to the Nikon D800/810, years later..

All the camera brands have different strengths, weaknesses and gaps. I honestly don't think many shooters will be choosing between the D500 and the 7dii -- Those cameras are geared towards pros and advanced enthusiasts who are likely already committed fairly deeply to a brand.

 

[DSLRuser]

meh. D500...can't see onyone needing more DX features then the D7200 has.

D5 for when you need the best of everything.

I am still happy with my D700 and D750 combination. Those 2 bodies and my 8 lens choices equip me for almost any situation I find myself in.

 

[Boski]

meh. D500...can't see onyone needing more DX features then the D7200 has.

Sports/Wildlife shooters? Better AF, 10fps, ridiculous buffer.

 

[SkaGoat]

Actually, it's simply their own successor to the D300.

This whole brand war is simply a silly way to look at it. It would be like saying that the Canon 5ds was Canon's answer to the Nikon D800/810, years later..

All the camera brands have different strengths, weaknesses and gaps. I honestly don't think many shooters will be choosing between the D500 and the 7dii -- Those cameras are geared towards pros and advanced enthusiasts who are likely already committed fairly deeply to a brand.

The 5Ds was Canon's answer to the D8xx cameras.

meh. D500...can't see onyone needing more DX features then the D7200 has.

D5 for when you need the best of everything.

I am still happy with my D700 and D750 combination. Those 2 bodies and my 8 lens choices equip me for almost any situation I find myself in.

D500 (and 7D Mk II) are for wild life, sports and bird photographers, many of these photographers want APS-C as it will give their lenses more reach. Also the D500 (and 7Dmkii) is a lot faster, with a deeper buffer, and with better AF than the other crop sensors cameras.

 

[dmaxphil]

Sports/Wildlife shooters? Better AF, 10fps, ridiculous buffer.

+ Latest sensor tech, Pro body and button layout

 

[dmaxphil]

New AF..

 

[havoc315]

meh. D500...can't see onyone needing more DX features then the D7200 has.

D5 for when you need the best of everything.

I am still happy with my D700 and D750 combination. Those 2 bodies and my 8 lens choices equip me for almost any situation I find myself in.

D7200, 6 fps, for up to 27 frames. D500, 10fps for up to 100 raw frames. So in terms of "anyone needing more DC features" -- For a sport shooter, that's a massive difference. And many sports shooters like to shoot DX, especially outdoors.
Throw in continuous support for snapbridge, auto AF fine tuning, -4EV autofocus, support for wireless flash, touch screen, 4k video, many many more AF points.... putting aside the huge price tag, the camera has a long list of features that make it a better camera than the D7200.

It's a very different camera than the D750. I'm not about to trade in my D750 for the D500. Totally different beasts. At the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the features from the D5 and D500 integrated into the D760!

 

[Geoff_M]

The D500 could be a very interesting beast. To me, the make or break will be the sensor performance. My D300s has a maximum usable ISO of 1600 for low-light applications. It cannot hold a candle to my D700 or D3s. My D300s is pretty much relegated to use with my 10.5mm DX fisheye. I do primarily shoot sports, so the D500's features would be most appealing to me. I'd pretty much sworn off the DX format, but the D500 might breath some life into it.

 

[Geoff_M]

In case anyone is interested, Nikon is holding D5/D500 launch parties at a large number of cities around the US in February. They say you'll be allowed to test the bodies. I just got my ticket via e-mail.

Registration Link

 

[havoc315]

The D500 could be a very interesting beast. To me, the make or break will be the sensor performance. My D300s has a maximum usable ISO of 1600 for low-light applications. It cannot hold a candle to my D700 or D3s. My D300s is pretty much relegated to use with my 10.5mm DX fisheye. I do primarily shoot sports, so the D500's features would be most appealing to me. I'd pretty much sworn off the DX format, but the D500 might breath some life into it.

Everyone has a different definition of usable ISO. I've seen some people say the top usable ISO on the D810/D750 etc is 800! But that's being pretty picky.

The D300s sensor is pretty old technology at this point. In terms of pure low light performance, I'd expect the D500 to be a clear step up, maybe even getting close to your fullframe cameras. When corrected for the same print size, the D7200 is a very very close match in performance to the D700 (according to DXOmark). The D500 should be at least as good as the D7200, if not slightly better. DXO suggests the D7200 is a full stop better than the D300s... so you should see your personal maximum usable ISO jump to 3200, if not slightly higher. For my APS-C uses, I do find 3200 the maximum usable, and 12800 on the D750.

As to the launch event... I would go just to get to play around with the cameras, except all the semi-local events are while I'm at work at the day job.

 

[Geoff_M]

The D300s sensor is pretty old technology at this point. In terms of pure low light performance, I'd expect the D500 to be a clear step up, maybe even getting close to your fullframe cameras.

While I have no doubt that the D500 will blow the D300s into the weeds, for me the point where the D500 would become attractive to me is if it can match or better the high ISO performance of my D3s. Before the announcement of the D500, it looked like Nikon was going to be content to restrict the DX format to consumer DSLRs... the question remains as to how much of a game-changer will the D500 be once they get the firmware up to version 1.0 and start rolling them off the lines.

 

[havoc315]

While I have no doubt that the D500 will blow the D300s into the weeds, for me the point where the D500 would become attractive to me is if it can match or better the high ISO performance of my D3s. Before the announcement of the D500, it looked like Nikon was going to be content to restrict the DX format to consumer DSLRs... the question remains as to how much of a game-changer will the D500 be once they get the firmware up to version 1.0 and start rolling them off the lines.

The D3s is a low light champ, even compared to current full frame cameras. At best, the newest full frames -- the D810, the D750, the Df, have caught up to the D3s. So I would say there is a very very little chance of the D500 matching it.
Look at the best APS-C sensors in the last couple of years, and maybe you can expect the D500 to be slightly better than those.

To me, it looks like the D500 will likely be the best sports camera on the market, especially for outdoor/daylight sports. The D5 will be the best indoor sports camera, but at a very very hefty price tag.
And if low light/non-sports is the priority, full frame will remain the way to go.

 

[Geoff_M]

The D3s is a low light champ, even compared to current full frame cameras. At best, the newest full frames -- the D810, the D750, the Df, have caught up to the D3s. So I would say there is a very very little chance of the D500 matching it.

However, the D500 has a high-end ISO rating of 51,200 versus the D3s 12,800. It was Thom Hogan, I believe, that stated when the figure for the D500 was announced that Nikon isn't known for advertising artificially inflated ISO ranges on a body that in reality are well beyond a certain standard of performance. I'm still in "wait and see" mode, but either the camera represents a major shift in ISO performance or Nikon is lying through their teeth.

 

[havoc315]

However, the D500 has a high-end ISO rating of 51,200 versus the D3s 12,800. It was Thom Hogan, I believe, that stated when the figure for the D500 was announced that Nikon isn't known for advertising artificially inflated ISO ranges on a body that in reality are well beyond a certain standard of performance. I'm still in "wait and see" mode, but either the camera represents a major shift in ISO performance or Nikon is lying through their teeth.

The D7200 has an expanded high ISO of 102,000 (B&W only). It has a top "native" ISO (there is really no difference between native and expanded except for a default setting) of 25,600. So no, it's not likely that the D500 represents a "major" shift.. it is an incremental improvement over their other recent APS-C cameras. Every year, they feel the need to lift the ISO range by a stop, even if it's not very usable. The Nikon D4s ISO range was very inflated over usable -- 409,600.
When corrected for print size, it has the exact same noise performance as the D750, and has inferior dynamic range to the D750:
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Nikon-D4s___975_945

So same real ISO performance as the D750 (which has a top ISO of 51,200), yet they inflate an extra 3 stops of ISO out of it.

 

[Geoff_M]

I went to our local D5/D500 event last night, and I ended up placing a pre-order for the D500 (even though I didn't walk in thinking I would... more on that later).

The event was well attended even though it was a weeknight. About 75 people were there. The Nikon tech rep had 3 D5 and D500 bodies each. All were pre-production sample units which he said represented 25% of the total population of such cameras currently in the US. They also had about a dozen current Nikon lenses that could be used with the bodies. An hour total presentation on both cameras then was given and the audience was then allowed as much time as we wanted to play with the cameras and lenses. We were in your average large not-so-well-lit conference room with rows of chairs so were was plenty of targets for testing low-light performance for both auto-focusing and ISO noise. The card bays were gaffer taped shut and, as is the standard rule at this point, no personal cards were allowed in the cameras as the firmware is not finalized on these units.

While I played around with a D5 a bit, I spent most of my time with a D500. I will say for certain that DX is once again a viable format for me. While it was only viewed from the LCD, the noise performance looked very, very good. It's not scientific, but the D500 looked to be able to top my D3s in terms of noise. The comments of some of the pros (albeit paid) that Nikon is using to market the camera appear to be correct. Concert shooter Todd Owyoung said that he could use 6400 and 12800 "all day", and I think he's not exaggerating. The AF also snapped quickly even with a pointed the camera at a dark corner of the room. The AF is rated at -4 EV, and given that my D3s only works down to -1 EV, that means that the D500 will AF in 12.5% of the minimum light needed for the D3s. While that -4 EV is only for the center point, the rest of the points work done to -3 EV.

I still was planning on only "looking" last night and staying on the fence until production model reviews appear, but then our dealer that was hosting the event announced a one-time offer that was only good for the event. Anyone that pre-ordered a D500 that evening, could bring in ANY working or non-working piece of camera equipment at pick-up and get $100 in rate-in value. That's effectively a 5% discount. Given that it appears that Nikon has underestimated the demand for the D500 and they've delayed the release by a month (the consensus being that they need the extra time to produce enough stock to meet the initial dealer orders), it's likely that the D500 units will be in short supply for some time and will likely be selling at the MAP for many many months to comes. I've heard other dealers at such events offering a free memory card with a pre-order, but not any effective discount. So I jumped. I suppose time will tell if this was just my enthusiasm getting in my way.

 

[xlxo]

I remember when the D700 and D800 had 6 month waitlists when they were released. Pre-orders are a great way to avoid disappointment.

Don't deny yourself greatness.