New rules about transferring points question?

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by las3888, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. las3888

    las3888 DIS Veteran

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    We have 3 separate smaller resale contracts that we use for our DVC stays. We occasionally transfer points to make up the balance for a stay, and occasionally we just book 2 nights from one contract, 3 nights from another contract etc. It all depends on the situation, how soon the points are expiring, many other factors. Are they really going to ban me from transferring points into and out of my contracts other than 1x per year? It's obvious the points are all ours...they are in my DH and my name. We are using them for ressies that are connected to one another. I just hate to get pigeon-holed and hope not to end up in a situation when we end up losing points because we couldn't transfer them and maybe there weren't enough in one account (i.e. 25 points or something) in one account when we are trying to book a 2BR and 25 points won't get us even 1 night's stay....thoughts from the boards???
     
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  3. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    If they're totally separate contracts, yes they will. And hence my argument that this will hurt the casual members more than those who rent consistently.
     
  4. Longhairbear

    Longhairbear DIS Veteran

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    Hi Dean,
    Could you explain your theory? Just asking for clarification, as I have 4 contracts in my name all the same resort and use year. The last 3 were add ons, and one contract has only 10 points in it, to make up for the total I was purchasing. Doesn't DVC just take a few points from each contract to fill a ressie? That has been the pattern I have noticed on my account.
    However if I had one of those contacts at a different resort, I could understand that using points from that contract for an 11 month window would require a transfer/morph. I think that is what I assumed, and decided against buying at SSR, and doing an add on instead through DVC.
    Does your arguement of hurting the casual member, mean that those that have several contracts,all at different resorts will now be limited to one transfer, if booking before 7 months?
    Frank
     
  5. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    IMO, it does harm the average member far more than the renters. It means you can’t feasibly add a few points to round out a reservation, many won’t be comfortable with that isolated renal situation to pay for a cruise or the like, that rental prices will likely go higher and that those who would have transferred as a rental will be more inclined to lock up high demand weeks for rental. A single member with multiple contracts will likely be affected in that if they transfer from one contract to another, it locks that option out the rest of that use year for both contracts.

    In your situation with the multiple contract in one Master Contract, if I understand correctly, you aren't transferring from one contract to another with regular usage so at least you're not tying them up that way. However, you will only have one transfer per master contract where if they were totally separate contracts, you would get one per each individual contract.
     
  6. Shawn

    Shawn Oregon DVC Member of VWL

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    I haven't been on the DIS for a month or two, so this is all new to me. I'm a DVD member, but I never receive the email that others received it seems, and I don't see this announcement posted on the DVC site. Could somebody post the original email for me?

    -Shawn
     
  7. LisaS

    LisaS DIS Veteran

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    I believe the same info that was sent out via email is listed in the latest issue of Vacation Magic. I'm having some problems with my PC at the moment so I can't reproduce the text of it here, but you can access it on the members' website. From the "Just for Members" menu, select "Member Publications". Then under the paragraph entitled "Vacation Magic", click the link: "View Latest Issue".

    ETA: Got it. Here it is:
     
  8. mochabean

    mochabean Mouseketeer

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    If you have ONE master contract and the three others were addons with the same master contract number, then MS can take points from whatever contract to complete a reservation without transferring.

    In the OP's case the three contracts are all master contracts with three different contract numbers because they were purchased resale and not as addons. Thus MS cannot take points from other contracts to complete a reservation. They need to be officially transferred before completing the reservation.

    To the OP: In your situation the best bet is judicious use of banking and borrowing. As long as you vacation often enough it won't matter. You won't lose those 25 points just because they aren't enough to book a 2BR if you bank them. Obviously this makes the system less flexible to the people who vacation less often but that is the rule, and it seems to penalize people who have multiple separate contracts purchased through resale.
     
  9. Shawn

    Shawn Oregon DVC Member of VWL

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    Thank you Lisa.
     
  10. crisi

    crisi DIS Veteran

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    And lots of planning. Its doable, but this is another example of why timeshares are best for planners and not great for "hey, lets take Aunt Sue down for a trip next month!"
     
  11. pat-rick

    pat-rick Mouseketeer

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    I have 2 contracts purchased through Disney but with different UY's.
    I have done a transfer every year. We normally take a Thanksgiving trip with up to 12 people and use several rooms. I do not have enough points to do it all with 1 UY so I transfer any balance needed to the original and leave whats remaining in the 2nd for a short stay or 2.
    Now my daughter has purchased a contract and until now I had planned to transfer to her points if the need arose. With the transfer limitation now to 1-time per year/contract my transfer at Thanksgiving will kill my options.
     
  12. mochabean

    mochabean Mouseketeer

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    If you are booking several rooms then it will be easy, just book as many room nights as you can with one contract and the rest with the other contract. If there are a few points left in one of the accounts that won't get used, just bank them. That way you can still transfer to your daughter if you need to, and if you don't then you can transfer the extra few points instead of banking.
     
  13. keishashadow

    keishashadow <font color=red>Proud Redhead<br><font color=green

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    True but,

    not @ 11 month window for different resorts.

    Example:

    my original contract is @ WLV,

    add on @ BWV...

    can't use the BWV points to book ressie @ WLV until the 7 month window & vice-a-versa.

    Enough to rock my boat until I add on to complete my holdings. Don't think for a minute DVC hasn't figured out that angle & is hustling to close it.
     
  14. mochabean

    mochabean Mouseketeer

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    You couldn't do that before and stay within the rules. You would have to morph points to use the BWV points to book a ressie @ WLV before the 7 month window. This really hasn't changed at all. Morphing is the loophole DVC needs to close; whether they are hustling or not I don't know. Clearly limiting the transfers to 1 per year mitigates the morphing issue somewhat but doesn't eliminate it.

    In Longhairbear's case all 4 contracts are the same home resort and UY so it wouldn't matter.
     
  15. keishashadow

    keishashadow <font color=red>Proud Redhead<br><font color=green

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    So, longhairbear has 4 sep. contracts w/same UY all @ same resort & they're add-ons...didn't think an addon contract could only have 10 points in it? I thought 25 points were the min. for add-ons? Must be missing something in the translation.

    My point exactly on the "morphing" or transferring between contracts, it's a no-go. We've been careful to buy points that match our UY & resort to avoid this situation.

    IMO, this enforcement effects DVC'ers w/mutiple small resales the same as "commercial" & probably is designed in part to either drive out or make it necessary to complete, small memberships.
     
  16. LisaS

    LisaS DIS Veteran

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    Disney can break up an existing contract and sell you part of it, but I don't think they can combine contracts to make a larger one. So I think a 10-point contract might occur in the following scenario. Let's say you want to buy a 110-point add-on from Disney. They have two 100-point contracts in your use year that they got via ROFR. They sell you one of the 100-point contract and they break up the other 100-pointer and sell you 10 points from that contract. Now if you asked to buy a 10-point add-on, the answer would be "no", but I believe I read a post here where Disney sold someone an N-point add-on that consisted of 3 contracts in total, so I think it's possible to end up with a contract that is smaller than 25 points as part of a larger add-on.

    I wondered that as well. We did see Disney become more aggressive about buying up small contracts via ROFR during the months leading up to this announcement. I don't know if it was one of the goals of the enforcement or just a beneficial (for Disney) side effect.
     
  17. DisneyTarheel

    DisneyTarheel <a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis-sponsor/" targ

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    ::yes:: I am that "average member." Never done a transfer either way before, but have been looking to add about 70 points into my 06 UY and have had 2 potential transferors turned away by MS b/c of the 1-and-done policy :headache:
     
  18. keishashadow

    keishashadow <font color=red>Proud Redhead<br><font color=green

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    lisas - thanx for the explanation...so confusing?
     
  19. Dean

    Dean DIS Veteran<br><a href="http://www.wdwinfo.com/dis

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    It's actually worse than that. This move devalues points not directly used for DVC stays and including exchange options. Here's why. Many people who were never comfortable renting, were comfortable transferring due to the clean method and the fact that once you had completed the transfer, you were done and had nothing to think or worry about. And many of those that were comfortable renting on a limited basis previously, will likely not be willing to do so now. Thus they are more likely to trade them to DVD for DCL, DC, CC. Then DVD has more rooms to rent out (reserved on points and some at high demand times) and likely will not get nearly as much $$$ per point with those extra rooms/points in the mix. So the points options will likely go up in the next 2-3 yeas if things continue to look like they do now. It's really a double whammy and affects every member who would rent, transfer or exchange in any way except II or a direct private timeshare exchange. So the points go from a value of $6-7 per point for exchanges to $5-6 per point.

    And since a large portion of the points for rent or transfer are those situational (? one time) renters, there will likely be a lot less points for rent/transfer. The price will actually go up for those willing to proceed. And since this forces less transfers for those that were doing a number of them, they will be more likely to reserve and rent high demand times. I can think of a number of ways for those who DIS feel are "commercial renters" to actually take advantage of this situation and do better, not worse, under the new rules.

    And the only people this will actually help are those who own at the more difficult to reserve resorts after the 11 month window but up to the 7 month window opens. And those people with distress points will lose out on options they had previously and likely will lose their points totally in many cases.
     
  20. mochabean

    mochabean Mouseketeer

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    Dean,
    I agree with most of your logic, except this part:
    If I was willing to rent on a limited basis before, I wouldn't think DVC would consider me a commerical renter, and so I would feel comfortable continuing to rent on a limited basis.

    As I said, I agree with your logic here, so let's predict what will happen a little further into the future.

    This may be a good thing in the long run. Here's why. Disney reserving high demand times with exchanged points makes them as much of a commerical renter as the commercial renters they are trying to stop. Even if point morphing and commercial renting ceased, Disney itself still has an impact on availability of high demand times due to the points it rents out at these times. If a higher point cost for exchanges significantly reduced the number of people willing to exchange, then Disney would have less points available to rent and would thus reserve less high demand time than it does now.

    And then if this does happen, the higher price points fetch on the rental market coupled with the lower value for exchanging may persuade those people who previously weren't willing to rent to rethink their decision.

    Sure, if the rental market is tighter, anyone renting out points will make more money. One way to reduce the profit of the commerical renters is to make them pay more for their supply. The one transfer rule may do this by tightening the transfer market for everything except distressed points, and eliminating morphing via software upgrade will also make many distressed points less attractive to commercial renters.

    So yes this will certainly hurt those with distressed points. But the whole notion behind distressed points is that they should be worth less than non-distressed points. Until morphing is eliminated that's not always the case.
     
  21. mello

    mello DIS Veteran

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    We did a 60 point add on through Disney. We really wanted one contract, but wound up with a 35 and a 25 point contract. So I believe you're right that the same thing could happen with smaller amts of points too. We did specifically ask to be sure they could be combined for a single night, though. I was envisioning being a few points short with the small contract and not being able to book anything, but they assured us that when it's the same resort & use year and same umbrella contract you don't have to worry about transfers, the points are pooled, which is a very good thing, especially now.
     

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