New Attendance Policy at DD's school - no more family trips during school!

[mommylicious]

Charter schools are flooding into our area and I am glad to see it. Get the government our of the school system and schools WILL get better. It is happening all over the country. The Gates family is proving it, Tiger Woods' school is proving it and many others like it are proving that competition makes schools better.

The above is back a few pages but I wanted to comment. My kids attend a local charter school. In some ways it's great but if you are not fortunate enough to live somewhere where an independently wealthy benefactor provides 100% funding for your school, you still have to deal with your local school system's requirements. Yes, some things are more flexible but they do still have to meet all NCLB and state standards if they take $1 of federal/state/county/local tax dollars. Our school gets FTE money from the county in the amount of about $3k - $4K per student. That totals almost $2 million for our school. The total budget for the school is $6 million so our management company makes up the other $4 million but we still must adhere to the NCLB and GA state stuff. There are also other issues at play. For us the school handbook says if they miss 3 or more days of unexcused absences they are brought up before the school board --- not the county school board, the charter school governing board. In our case, that means 3 of the *****iest most power hungry women who have no problem sitting in a board meeting and telling the parents in attendance they don't give a damn what we want, they are going to do what they feel is best for their kids. THe other two board members are men from the community who don't give a damn and are only there to make sure their companies are awared contracts to do business with the school without even going through a bid process...essentially their votes are "bought" so that the 3 *****y women can do what they want. Beyond corrupt. Last year I spoke out against something the board was doing that affected ALL children at the school but they were not even telling parents it was being discussed. I rocked the boat and rallied parents. That means I am now persona-nongrata to the board. My kids will be missing 2.5 days right before Christmas. A half day (as in it's an early release day, not us checking them out) on 12/19 then a whole day 12/20 and 12/21 however 12/21 is class party day and the policy has always been that parents can take them home early after the party with no penalty. If they try to tell me we are missing 3 days I will fight tooth and nail given that 12/19 is an early release day with the kids picked up at noon. IF I were to check my child out at noon on a full day they would only be counted absent for a half day so the same should apply here. If we are brought before the board then unfortunately the political BS will no doubt cause trouble for us. I keep my kids there because the teachers are FANTASTIC and the school has great academic success but each teacher and most parents will tell you they are successful DESPITE the board, not because of them. The board is more interested in stuff like making sure that the capri pant choice for uniforms are the ones their daughters like best and creating a policy that says no other brand of capris are allowed.

Fortunately not all charter schools are like that but far too many are because when you get that extra parent involvement requirement, sometimes you get parents who are a little TOO involved. Many of the charter management companies are first and foremost businesses so their first priority is business, not kids and that can cause a problem too.

 

[Colleen27]

Believe me, I would be happy to to go in the summer. It isn't a value season vs peak season money issue. When I go on vacation, I want to take my children. We would never be able to go anywhere at all if I weren't allowed to take my children out of school.

I don't understand why the money issue comes up at all in these discussions, since most of summer vacation is value season! It wouldn't cost us any more to go in August than to go in January, and it would be cheaper to go over the summer than to go for the April, May or October dates we ruled out for school or work reasons.

 

[smylie1]

I leave you with this. They are your children. If you need to take a vacation during the school year, then do it. Your children are only young once and you cannot buy that time back later in life.

I'm a teacher, and I totally agree!

 

[amyhughes]

As a child my DGP's always pulled me for a week at a time during school. This was every year from First on through. I always made up work, I was not absent other than that (except for a few bouts with Strep Throat!) and typically did well in school. However had I not been a traditional student (remember this was the early 80's) and had been a child who struggled and had a learning disability I am sure several teachers would have had a thing or two to say to my GPs.

My kids go to Montessori where regular attendance is required or we will be asked to withdraw our children. It is a private school, but they are very adamant that for the method to work attendance needs to be top priority.

We took our eldest son out the week before school let out last year and it worked out fine. I worked with the teacher (am a teaching candidate working towards my degree) on a lesson that would help DS #1 learn SOMETHING while gone. They were studying oceans so we hit the Living Seas big time and took pictures of the different species for his class.

I know that for many schools and teachers NCLB is a headache, it just is. The testing in our state in public schools takes place in September of all times, so teachers have a 6 week period to get those kids back in their classroom habits and ready to take a standardized test! It really does go down to teaching to the test for the first 6 weeks of school, so that if you are Title I you don't get into even more hot water.

I am not a fan of NCLB personally, I think education begins at home and parents should not RELY completely on a teacher to introduce the ideas of Math, Science, Reading, and Language. I don't know where I would be if my GP didn't teach me long division!

Don't flame me, I just think the school is trying not to get in any trouble. Granted their kids may test exceptionally high, but attendance under NCLB has to be above par as well. They will probably crack down like this for a couple of years and then slack down a bit.

 

[Colleen27]

Family vacations can be scheduled around school holidays, minimizing absences. Missing one or two days is preferable to missing a week or several weeks in a row.

In a perfect world, that might be true, but the fact is that there is no practical way for every parent who wants to take their kids on vacation to be off during the limited number of weeks that kids have off. Not many businesses can continue operating without a significant portion of their employees, so they deny many more vacation requests than they approve for popular vacation times. And many parents have jobs where uncontrollable considerations other than school schedules dictate their vacation time.

 

[lovetoscrap]

I don't understand why the money issue comes up at all in these discussions, since most of summer vacation is value season! It wouldn't cost us any more to go in August than to go in January, and it would be cheaper to go over the summer than to go for the April, May or October dates we ruled out for school or work reasons.

Not sure where you get that idea from? Summer is "Summer season" and used to be "Regular Season". That is NOT Value season. Value Season dates are actually getting narrower and narrower and are really at "off times" when you would have to pull your kids out of school. Prices ARE higher for Resorts, as well as huge differences in the crowd levels, and the weather. I would much rather spend my hard earned money to go when the weather is nice and the crowds are low and I can get much more value for my money. And that is my perogative as a parent to decide if that is when is best for my family to vacation.

 

[AC7179]

Here in Texas, it is all about the money, and it's not really the school districts' fault. The schools are so underfunded anyway, that when a kid has poor attendance, regardless of academic ability, the school loses money and that hurts. That is why they are so incredibly strict.

 

[Colleen27]

Not sure where you get that idea from? Summer is "Summer season" and used to be "Regular Season". That is NOT Value season. Value Season dates are actually getting narrower and narrower and are really at "off times" when you would have to pull your kids out of school. Prices ARE higher for Resorts, as well as huge differences in the crowd levels, and the weather. I would much rather spend my hard earned money to go when the weather is nice and the crowds are low and I can get much more value for my money. And that is my perogative as a parent to decide if that is when is best for my family to vacation.

From Mousesavers. Value season at the values & mods starts August 5, and July 8 for the deluxes and DVC. It didn't occur to me until I looked at the calendar, though, that I'm looking at this from a midwestern POV - summer season at Disney is half over before we're even out of school (2nd or 3rd week of June, depending on the year) and August is the prime summer vacation month. Those of you who get out earlier and start the school year in August do have to contend with summer season.

I agree with you about going when crowds are low and weather is good, though, and I've made that same decision about when it is right for my family to vacation. For us northerners, even if we could get away during the summer, I don't know that we'd vacation in Florida in the summer - the heat is so draining!

 

[AuroraBeauty]

The problem, I see, with these policies is that they miss the whole point of children being in school.

What's the difference between a child having an 'excused' absence for 10 days because they have a Dr. note and having an 'unexcused' absence for the same 10 days because there is no excuse?

What is a valid excuse? This sounds like a question on the SAT! There isn't a right or wrong answer, just one that will get you credit for allowing your child out of school w/o repercussion.

I missed a month of my jr. year of high school (gotta get in the way back machine!) because I was in the hospital due to heart problems. I didn't miss anything! I was so far ahead that all I had to do was get a few days tutoring for Algebra II.

The problem comes when kids who are already behind do not go to school. These children need more focus and attention and determination as to why they are missing school. Chances are they aren't going on vacation -- they are MIA. School is already a drag for them so why keep going.

And as for the discussion about it taking more effort for teachers -- does the effort change whether the absence is excused or unexcused? No.

I have friends who are teachers and I know they don't get paid what they should be for what they do for our children in public school. A child not being in school can be a distraction both when the are not there and then when they get back. However, parents do have a responsibility to help their child(ren) and the school to make ANY absence less stressful and/or disruptive.

From my experience, not a lot gets accomplished in school during a week. But that's just based on averages. Some weeks are 'ah-ha' weeks where everything falls into place. Those are the weeks you never want to miss.

But, I digress. The main point is that I'd like to know what the policies are trying to achieve -- days off are days off. For those who work outside the home and have paid/unpaid vacation/sick/personal/holiday/annual days you still have to keep up. You don't take your week off then get home and 'Trash' all your emails from the week and put all paperwork in the garbage/shredder when you get back to your office. Parents have to keep up -- and so do kids.

Excused or Unexcused, the child is out of school. I guess it comes down to money for the school. Then just say it -- how can you teach children to be honest and forthright when the administration of their very own school can't even do so?

Sadly, the policies seem to have nothing to do with making sure the children receive the best education. It's all about money. Our children deserve better.

 

[boettj]

Ok, one more comment. I knew this was going to happen. The whole summer vacations off originated when this country was mainly a farming economy. That policy was put in place so a family would have the DCs available for the gorwing season. The farming community has been fading in this country severely.

It's time for us to look at changing this model. Typically summer vacation is 10 weeks off. Why not spread those 10 weeks out around the year. Give the Kids a week off for Memorial day, 2 weeks off for the 4th of July, 2 weeks off for Labor day (Week before and week after), 1 week off for Columbus day, 1 week off for Thanksgiving, 2 weeks off at X-mas. That leaves 2 weeks out there that could be put elsewhere.


If vacations were spread throughout the year, then this whole issue would be reduced. More time off would give families more opportunities with which to take non-summer vacations.


Education is not the government dictating how education is done. Education is not just my child sitting in a class. Education is an ongoing evolution that continues until one dies. That education comes from the teacher, the parents, and the experiences that a child has during life. Book smart is great, but there is more to sitting in a classroom and learning facts and figures. Our country and the world is full of history. Opportunity abounds. Even at Disney, a child can learn about America's history in a theme park setting.

If you are not part of the solution to teach your child (Which I believe most of the parents on this board participate in their child's education.), then you are stuck in the astigmatism of the 1960-1990's.


Wow, it's amazing how one can feel better after getting stuff off their chest.

 

[badblackpug]

Regaring the falsified doctors notes: This is, indeed, falsifying a medical record. The MD is indicating that he/she saw, examined, and treated your child for an illness that actually did not exist. They are signing their name to the document that says they did this. I have a friend that got into very hot water regarding this. They signed a doctors note stating that a child was sick on missed days (the child was a patient of theirs, but never seen on said days) so that the child could attend graduation ceremonies. The school found it questionable and requested the medical records with diagnosis and treatment, and, lo and behold, none existed. This is not a practice I would involve myself in.

Maybe for those of you who do take your children out of school for extended periods for vacations should frame it as a lesson in compromise to your kids. Such as "You will miss school to have fun at WDW, but A, B, and C will be the consequences."

While I am sure that the majority of you who do take your kids out for a week or more have children who can catch up, unfortunately, there are some parents who have struggling kids whom they keep out of school. My point is the rules made must, in all fairness, apply to all and not just some.

 

[cissy]

Yes, the agriculturally based calendar year was mentioned in my earlier post and I am glad to see it repeated.

Where I live, we have a lot of year round elementary schools. As a matter of fact, all new public elem. schools built in our county are required to be year round. I love the system but it comes with its share of issues as well.

I agree TOTALLY that the absence issue is not about education but about money. The other poster is right that the work has to be made up regardless of whether it is for vacation or the flu.

As for charter schools, the poster is right on! A lot of how well a school does depends on who funds it and the principle it is founded on. Some are good and some not so good. But it at least is another CHOICE!

I also send my kids to Montessori. It is as close to homeschooling as I can get without homeschooling. I love the philosophy of learning how to learn and critical thinking that is absent in the public system of most schools today.

And one more note. i was talking to my brother yesterday about schools. He just started teaching high school history. He has 3 freshman classes. Only two students knew where Cuba was and only one had heard of the Bay of Pigs or the missile Crisis. He was deeply shocked. But I told him to get used to it! Geography is not on the Federal Tests so don;t expect kids to know where anything is.

And that leads to this scary policy. In our county (maybe our state), many teachers no longer teach how to diagram a sentence or parts of speech. They don't teach it because it is not on the Federal test. I only know about this development because there was an article in our local paper about the second language teachers complaining to the school board about it. Seems it is awfully difficult to teach a second language to kids who don't know parts of speech!!! Imagine that!

But again, the parents are in control. VOTE!! VOTE!! VOTE!!

 

[Michigan]

I take my kids out the week before their mid winter break in February because I don't want to be stuck in the President's day crowds. They get all their work and do it the week that school is out.

They are my kids, I buy their food, clothes, pay for their health care. I also pay very high taxes that pay the teachers salaries. I will take my kids out when I want.

The local government nor the Federal Government own my kids. If the school didn't like it I would find another option.

 

[darlak]

Regaring the falsified doctors notes: This is, indeed, falsifying a medical record. The MD is indicating that he/she saw, examined, and treated your child for an illness that actually did not exist. They are signing their name to the document that says they did this. I have a friend that got into very hot water regarding this. They signed a doctors note stating that a child was sick on missed days (the child was a patient of theirs, but never seen on said days) so that the child could attend graduation ceremonies. The school found it questionable and requested the medical records with diagnosis and treatment, and, lo and behold, none existed. This is not a practice I would involve myself in.

Maybe for those of you who do take your children out of school for extended periods for vacations should frame it as a lesson in compromise to your kids. Such as "You will miss school to have fun at WDW, but A, B, and C will be the consequences."

While I am sure that the majority of you who do take your kids out for a week or more have children who can catch up, unfortunately, there are some parents who have struggling kids whom they keep out of school. My point is the rules made must, in all fairness, apply to all and not just some.

I agree that if your child is struggling academically, then taking them out of school for a vacation probably isn't wise.

Regarding the falsified medical records, I'm not questioning the truthfullness of your post since I don't where you're from. I can, however, tell you that my child's doctor has often faxed the school a medical excuse when she has not actually seen my child. An example of this would be times she has had a stomach virus. The doctor doesn't want her coming into her office to be seen when she is highly contagious and there is little treatment available other than allowing the virus to run it's course. Those times when she has faxed an excuse for our trips to WDW, there is no assertation made that she has seen or treated my child in her office. The excuse, as previously stated, has a beginning and ending date that she is excused from attending school. As far as the school requesting medical records, I had to laugh and assume that perhaps the example you cited was prior to the new HIPPA laws. My child's doctor would never have consented to sending the school her medical records without my consent, even before HIPPA.

 

[daisyduck123]

Regaring the falsified doctors notes: This is, indeed, falsifying a medical record. The MD is indicating that he/she saw, examined, and treated your child for an illness that actually did not exist. They are signing their name to the document that says they did this. I have a friend that got into very hot water regarding this. They signed a doctors note stating that a child was sick on missed days (the child was a patient of theirs, but never seen on said days) so that the child could attend graduation ceremonies. The school found it questionable and requested the medical records with diagnosis and treatment, and, lo and behold, none existed. This is not a practice I would involve myself in.

A school can't just contact a doctor's office & request medical records. That would have to go through a lawyer....something our school system doesn't have the time nor money to bother with.

 

[guelde96]

I keep hearing that if a child is struggling in school you should not take them out for vacation. Even children who struggle in school deserve a vacation. There is a difference between struggle and rebellion. A child who has a difficult time in school should not be punished for their ability.

 

[darlak]

I keep hearing that if a child is struggling in school you should not take them out for vacation. Even children who struggle in school deserve a vacation. There is a difference between struggle and rebellion. A child who has a difficult time in school should not be punished for their ability.

I am one of the posters who said that a child who is struggling in school probably shouldn't be pulled out of school for a vacation. I cannot speak for other posters, but I certainly never meant anyone to think that I believed that those children are any less deserving of a vacation.

Personally, if my child were struggling academically, I would schedule our vacations during a time when school was not in session. I would do so not to penalize her in any way, but simply because I would not want to risk her being incapable of catching up when we returned. Even if she were capable of doing the make-up work in addition to her current workload, for a student already struggling, that just seems like it would place an unfair burden on them.

 

[Colleen27]

Personally, if my child were struggling academically, I would schedule our vacations during a time when school was not in session. I would do so not to penalize her in any way, but simply because I would not want to risk her being incapable of catching up when we returned. Even if she were capable of doing the make-up work in addition to her current workload, for a student already struggling, that just seems like it would place an unfair burden on them.

I think it really depends on the kid, the grade, and the pace of the class. For some kids, making up the work might be a burden, but for others, the break from what could be a very frustrating daily routine might be just the thing to give them a 'second wind' when they return.

 

[hiddenj]

A school can't just contact a doctor's office & request medical records. That would have to go through a lawyer....something our school system doesn't have the time nor money to bother with.

They need more than a lawyer. They need a court order in order to get the medical office to release those records.

 

[IndianaMouseLover]

Ok, one more comment. I knew this was going to happen. The whole summer vacations off originated when this country was mainly a farming economy. That policy was put in place so a family would have the DCs available for the gorwing season. The farming community has been fading in this country severely.

It's time for us to look at changing this model. Typically summer vacation is 10 weeks off. Why not spread those 10 weeks out around the year. Give the Kids a week off for Memorial day, 2 weeks off for the 4th of July, 2 weeks off for Labor day (Week before and week after), 1 week off for Columbus day, 1 week off for Thanksgiving, 2 weeks off at X-mas. That leaves 2 weeks out there that could be put elsewhere.


If vacations were spread throughout the year, then this whole issue would be reduced. More time off would give families more opportunities with which to take non-summer vacations.


Education is not the government dictating how education is done. Education is not just my child sitting in a class. Education is an ongoing evolution that continues until one dies. That education comes from the teacher, the parents, and the experiences that a child has during life. Book smart is great, but there is more to sitting in a classroom and learning facts and figures. Our country and the world is full of history. Opportunity abounds. Even at Disney, a child can learn about America's history in a theme park setting.

If you are not part of the solution to teach your child (Which I believe most of the parents on this board participate in their child's education.), then you are stuck in the astigmatism of the 1960-1990's.


Wow, it's amazing how one can feel better after getting stuff off their chest.

Very well said!

I know many school districts here in Indiana have gone and will be going to a "year long school calendar". What is looks like is the students are still attending the required number of school days (180). The students get around a 3 week mini-vacation at the end of each grading period (every nine weeks). The school calendar is set up so that the vacations fall at Christmas, Spring Break, Summer break, and fall break. Even as an elementary principal I am all for it going to this calendar! But it is a change in mind set for many that prevent it. Plus we hear the closed minded sound off about High School athletics.

There are many studies that have been done on this type of school calendar. Absenteeism in those districts is down among students and students for whatever reason. I am not here to debate why. School test scores are up due to the spread out vacations versus the one long break. Again, I am not here to debate why. These are just a few of the big points coming out of the study here.

I believe that this type of calendar would work for all that have expressed concern about the outdated, current school calendar. It would serve the parents and the school better.