Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by wdrl, Aug 9, 2010.
I find this information interesting Thank you....Shawn
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Remember that any OKW extension refusals that may still be showing up will also appear as a recorded deed, so it skew the facts just a little bit. Certainly most of those hae been taken care of by now, though.
Great information! Thanks for taking the time to post.
Sorry about my mistake regarding Donald is #1's gender.
I don't know of any way to search just for the warranty deeds on the OCC website. If you discover how to do it, please let me know.
I would have thought that most of OKW extension quitclaim deeds would have been recorded by now, but there seems to be a lot still being processed. I didn't pay attention to the dates on most of the OKW deeds, but several appeared to have been signed recently by the owners. Is it possible some people are not filing the quitclaim deeds until they visit WDW and then use DVD's notary service to complete the signing process?
Keep in mind that a foreclosure action is needed on each deed owned by a member in default. If an owner has three deeds and goes into default, then a separate Certificate of Title or Warranty Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure is filed on each deed.
I don't know the legal difference between a Certificate of Title and a Warranty Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure. The former is an instrument of the Ninth Circuit Court of Florida and every one I saw involved Palm Financial versus a defendant. The latter appears to be an internal DVD instrument, so it appears it is used before the default issue escalates to the Circuit Court. Perhaps someone can explain the difference. Either way, DVD is reacquiring the title to the real estate interest.
That is certainly possible, especially for non-US owners who often have very high notary fees. Also, DVC may have not been able to contact some owners, contracts could have been tied up in estates or divorces, and DVC may just now begin putting a hold on point use unless you've extended or declined.
Thanks for posting. I love reading your posts about the sales data.
I'll attempt an explanation....although I am not a FL attorney so take this for what it is worth.
The Ninth Circuit Court is the FL state court for Orange and Osceola counties. When any mortgagee (Disney or a financing company) forecloses, it does so by filing a civil complaint with the Ninth Circuit court. The action proceeds, according to the state rules, to judgment (either uncontested or contested unsuccessfully). Then the judgment holder can apply to have the real estate interest sold at judicial sale so that the proceeds can be applied to satisfy the debt. The Certificate of Title is the document the court issues to legally recognize the transfer of ownership from the original DVC owner to the successful bidder at the sale. If Disney is the grantee of the Certificate of Title, then I presume that means Disney attended the judicial sale and bid the amount of the judgment (at least) to buy back the points.
Contrast that process with a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure. I think your suspicions are correct - Disney obtained an agreement with the DVC member in default that avoided court proceedings. Perhaps Disney permitted the DVC member to deed back the points in return for forgiveness of the underlying loan and any unpaid MFs. Disney has incentive to do this to save court costs and attorney fees.
It makes sense to me that every Certificate of Title you saw involved Palm Financial rather than Disney. Palm Financial can't stand in the same position as Disney in negotiating a Deed in Lieu. If they tried to buy the points back from the defaulting DVC member (in return for forgiving a loan), Palm would be subject to ROFR. It is probably easier to initiate foreclosure in court, knowing that they will likely recover the debt at the judicial sale.
Hope that helps.....not sure if I am 100% correct but some of the above has to be true!
Yes, it does help! Like you, I always wonder if what I say is 100% correct. I slowly piece together facts and observations with the experiences and knowledge of others, and hope that I'm headed in the right direction. As I have said before, perhaps I should change my screen name from wdrl to iwikwiwta (I wish I knew what I was talking about).
Interesting data! Thanks for digging it up!
Okay, so I'm definitely not right 100% of the time....
Google Palm Financial and you will find that it is a Disney affiliate. So disregard my comments about Palm not standing in the same position as Disney!
Palm Financial Services, Inc may be an affiliate of the Disney Corporation, but so is Disney Vacation Development. There may be all sorts of financial or legal requirements/advantages for Palm and DVD to have different standings in a court of law.
By the way, each of the Certificates of Title show that the sales value of the property is $100.00.
With Disney getting so many contracts back for non payment, I would think they would stop hiking the price per point of their contracts.
Just goes to show that even disney is getting hit hard like the other timeshare companies.
But again, the real question is: why are they buying back so much BCV versus all others?
I don't know, but my sister (who hasn't bought anywhere yet) would only ever consider buying Beach Club Villas.
She is also probably the same buyer that would balk at purchasing a timeshare resale over the internet.
Plus, the price differential between retail and resale is smaller for BCV.
The HIGHEST-priced BCV contract I see on the TTS site is priced at $85 per point, with others in the high- to mid-$70's.
DVC's direct price is $115.00 per point with no incentives.
To me, that looks like about $30 per point minimum difference...or roughly 26% resale savings compared to the highest ASKING price resale. Not selling price...asking price.
That seems like a pretty prohibitive price differential to me.
I think what he means is that DVC can buy back this stuff in the high 70's low 80's and resell for $115. $40-50 per point profit for a resort that evidently DVC must consider a strong market for.
It's not all profit, though. The rule of thumb in the industry is that marketing represents between 1/4 and 1/2 of the cost (not the price, the *cost*) to develop a unit.
I have updated the monthly ROFR data through August 31, 2010. The chart in Post #1 of this thread now shows contracts reacquired by DVD for June, July, and August 2010. With the exception of two small BLT contracts, the August 2010 ROFRed contracts were from BCV.
In August at the suggestion of lilpooh108, I started tracking the "Sale/Consideration" amount that is reported on each warranty deed recorded at OCC. I know that when DVD sells a contract, the Sale/Consideration amount is the full purchase price before incentives are considered. Thus, a 100 point BLT contract will show a Sale/Consideration amount of $12,000, even though the buyer actually paid only $11,400 after receiving a $6/point incentive. On warranty deeds, I suspect the Sale/Consideration amount is the actual price paid by the buyer since there are no incentives involved.
Based on the Sale/Consideration amounts on the August warranty deeds, it appears that DVD reacquired the BLT points at $99/point and the BCV points at a weighted average of $76.90/point. The BCV points ranged from $67 to $84.
Thanks for the update!
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