Middle Class Priced Out???

[2Pirates2Princesses]

Maybe but the all inclusives that are cheaper than Disney are kind of sketchy. A low end Disney trip is better than food poisoning in the DR.

But seriously, if you stay at a Disney value or off site and eat cheaply (which can be done) it's definitely a middle class vacation no matter how you define middle class.

If you want a monorail resort and the deluxe dining plan, etc - yes many people are priced out. But it's kind of always been that way. As a kid in the 70s we could never afford to stay at the Contemporary or Poly. We didn't even think about it. That was something only rich people did. We vacationed in a cheap beach cottage and packed 7 people in a car to come to MK for the day. We brought sandwiches for lunch. You didn't get to ride everything you wanted because you only had so many E tickets.

From my perspective Disney opened up to more people with moderate, and especially the value, resorts. Without those I wouldn't have ever considered a week long Disney vacation.

That being said everything is a bit overpriced. I've always said you get what you pay for except at Disney you get about 80% of what you pay for. But we splurge a little bit every 3 or 4 years because it's different from anywhere else and everyone has a good time. Price increases hurt. If it was cheaper we might go more often or stay longer but I don't see them pricing me out any time soon.

I agree with this. I also think that along with the price increases, Disney has also scaled back on those attractive discounts that made it possible for many middle class families to go to WDW annually or every other year over the course of the past ten years. I am 37 years old and primarily grew up and went to school in the suburbs and I don't recall knowing anyone that went to Disney World more than once during their entire childhood. This upcoming trip will be our family's third week long WDW trip since 2011. While I understand that our kids being older (and us having another child) contributes to the higher costs, the price difference between our 2011 seven night value resort stay trip with dining plan and this year's seven night value resort stay with dining plan is pretty steep! We love the Disney experience and my kids are mostly young enough where we will definitely want to come back at some point, but with having to buy tickets for five kids and needing two rooms I can definitely see us staying offsite in a condo again and possibly spending less days in the parks and eating at the Disney restaurants a lot less too.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

When I was growing up going to Disney (70s) was taking the pop up camper down to Florida for the week, doing one day at the Magic Kingdom, doing one day at SeaWorld, and doing other inexpensive recreational things for the other four days. A vacation like that is still a middle class vacation. That stay onsite, do a theme park every day stuff, has never IMHO been a moderately priced vacation or a typical modestly priced vacation for what that article is calling the middle class. These days we can fly down with inexpensive airfare or points, rent a condo from a timeshare owner (offsite), and do two or three theme park days (still have the inexpensive resort activities for the other three days) or do a four night/three day trip (accommodations offsite) to keep things moderately priced. // So the choice then becomes how we want to spend our vacations dollars.

We usually do one full week vacation every year and one mini vacation. Recently Disney/Orlando has often made it as our mini vacation. Next year, though, our mini vacation will be Key West and our longer vacation will be South Dakota (whatever strikes our fancy that fits in the budget).

I grew up in Southern California, so I went to Disneyland at least once a year on a school trip, family excursion or when they had Federal Employees Day (my dad's job). All these were day trips. We never once stayed at the Disneyland Hotel. Epcot opened right after we moved back East, so my parents loaded up the station wagon with the 4 kids, attached the travel trailer and took us. We split the week between Orlando and the beach at St Augustine. My dad bought 2 day tickets. We spent one day at MK and one day at Epcot. We had an early dinner in Epcot at what is now Teppan Edo. We stayed at a KOA campground near the park because Ft. Wilderness was too expensive. I remember hearing about Ft. Wilderness, River Country, the onsite resorts and seeing the high prices of the multi day tickets and feeling really grateful that we got to be there at all. It truly was a middle class vacation!

 

[tvguy]

Easily. The fare for the seven-day is more than the combination of fares for the three-day and four-day. If that excess cost is more than the extra spent in gift shops (how much, on average, do people really spend in the gift shops?) then the seven-day is more profitable. You also have to have factors in extra costs that DCL incurs for having two cruises in terms of swithcing over cruises (e.g. embarkation/disembarkation port charges, cleaning, etc.). Not sure that all of them is compensated for (or, rather, more than compensated for) by some extra gift shop purchases. It might be, but not sure that it is.

I've been on the Cruise Line forum for 15 years, and the 3 and 4 day combined to be 7 days being cheaper than a 7 day didn't sound right, so I checked. You're wrong.
Checking July, cruises from Port Canaveral, inside stateroom
3 day is $1023 per person
4 Day is $1616 per person.
Total back to back is $2639
7 day is $2317 per person.
So the 7 day is cheaper than back to backing a 3 day to a 4 day.

 

[SirDuff]

I've been on the Cruise Line forum for 15 years, and the 3 and 4 day combined to be 7 days being cheaper than a 7 day didn't sound right, so I checked. You're wrong.
Checking July, cruises from Port Canaveral, inside stateroom
3 day is $1023 per person
4 Day is $1616 per person.
Total back to back is $2639
7 day is $2317 per person.
So the 7 day is cheaper than back to backing a 3 day to a 4 day.

I'll assume that your numbers are correct (you didn't provide any details for me to check), but in my experience (when I checked last year), it was cheaper to do the back-to-back (I assumed because of the ports, possibly). So, in my experience, I'm not wrong. And I can only go by my experience. And the PP, who was actually the one who first said it in this thread.

 

[superme80]

We are not remotely middle class,but our trips are fewer and farther between. When DH and I got married in 2007, it was going to cost us around $600 to spend 3 days at Disneyland. Now 10 years later it will cost us around $1000 for 2 days. It may not seem like a lot, but with wages not much more than we were making back then, and 3 kids to raise, it is pricey. I am trying to look at any trip to Disney as a gift. No extras. Just enjoy the rides and eat quick service.

 

[AquaDame]

I know this topic comes up in discussions a lot. But I'd really love to know if everyone believes that WDW is pricing out the middle class? Or...any other classes for that matter! If you feel like you're being or have been priced out, why specifically do you feel that way? Do you still go on trips to WDW? How have you compensated for their price increases? On the other hand, if you don't feel as though WDW is pricing people out, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that as well!

Its like the spread for middle class in general... it is such a wide margin and doesn't take into account what wages in any particular place is. NPR claims is covers everyone from $41,869 to $125,609. A person making bank in NY is working with a different number than someone making bank in small town USA even if those COL differences keep both strapped when all is said and done.

I feel like a lot of people feel priced out because they know what they used to get for their dollar and it was a lot more than they get today. They've also been there, done that, and maybe are even getting a little bored of it. Add worth being subjective in there...

We still go on WDW trips. I guess we would fall into the category of taking shorter trips to justify it but honestly its more because we have other vacations in a year also and its hard to squeeze WDW in. When I first started coming the trip was more or less a week long, but recently its been a long weekend or a few days with a short cruise too. Our last trip was 4 nights and our next two trips (one definite, the other TBD) will be 4 and then 3 nights.

It's hard to feel as though they are pricing people out when everything seems so full still.

 

[Darcy03231]

That's a good deal. We did Dreams resort in Mexico that was a bit more than your sandals quote. I will have to look into that.

I guess my point is that you can do Disney cheaper. Not necessarily luxury digs but there are affordable options for middle class folk. I could do a week in Disney for less than 3k if I was really trying to keep costs down. AKL + deluxe dining is nice but not necessary.

I agree that Disney can be done cheaper by staying in value resorts and not doing any TS meals, but when comparing it cost wise to other vacations, if you compare apples to apples, WDW generally comes out higher, at least in my experience. When we first starting going years ago that wasn't the case. Back then it was usually less expensive for us to go to WDW than it was to cruise or go to an all-inclusive (and we've never stayed at a cheap skeevy one). I'll also add in that at that time I had young children which also made WDW a more appealing vacation destination. Your family size can make a difference too. Right now it's just DH and I so I'm basing my prices on that. When our children were at home (we have four and fostered 2 more) obviously we spent more.

With prices at the level they are now (and have been for the last several years) for me, WDW just doesn't have the value that it did. It's not that I can't afford it, its that I don't find the value there anymore, which has forced me to look at other vacation options. I've found my money goes much further in other places. I know I gave the Sandals example up-thread, but another one is our trip to China. We're doing a 10 day escorted group tour. The trip is $549/pp including airfare, hotel (3-4*), all transportation/transfers, entrance fees and some meals. We do have to pay for a visa (about $200/pp) and the tour guide ($80/pp). I can actually go to China for less than what it costs to visit the pavilion in the World Showcase.

I know from other threads on these boards over the last couple of years I'm not the only one who feels this way. It used to be that WDW was the destination of choice, but with the constant price increases and slowness to add new attractions, it's made us reevaluate where we spend our vacation dollars. It used to be that WDW got the lion's share. They haven't gotten any in the last four years and this year they'll get about 1%, and that's only because they've finally added an attraction that DH wants to see - Pandora. We'll probably go back again when Star Wars is done as he wants to see that too, but we'll probably do the same thing we're doing this year - tacking on a couple of extra days to an already existing trip while we're already in Florida, and not making a special trip just to go to WDW.


But, back to the original question, I do think that some of the middle class is being priced out of yearly, week-long trips. We have friends with younger children who used to go yearly and now are going every other year. In the off year they do some kind of a staycation so they can save enough to go to WDW. From these boards I don't get the impression they're the only ones doing that.

 

[DISNEY1975]

For me, its getting there! Ive been doing things to keep it in line with what I paid in the past, but that is also getting harder and harder.

In 2008, I got 2 rooms in the tower, 3 people each, at the Contemporary for 8 days (7 nights) for $6000, included park hopper tix and deluxe dining plan - Thanksgiving week.

In 2010, I got the Poly for 9 nights, 1 room, 3 people, tix with WP and PH and DxDDP for $5700 (October)
In 2015, I got the Poly for 9 nights, 1 room, 3 people for $6200 tix with WP and PH (moved to September for free dining)

2017 - Yacht Club, 7 nights 1 room, 3 people tix with WP and PH and DxDDP for $6500.
We are staying 3 nights outside of Disney (Best Western Lake Beuna Vista in Disney Springs area) with tickets to Discovery Cove, Sea World and Aquatica - meals included at Sea World and Discovery Cove - Those 4 days is costing me $950, plus we will pay OOP for 1 lunch and 1 dinner.

1 extra day at YC with DxDDP and the tickets would have cost us $900. I prefer 4 days for that price outside of the parks.

Even with moving the trip to value season, getting free dining, the price is still rising over peak season from years ago.

The years in between our Disney trips, we have gone on cruises for 1/2 the cost. Unfortunately, we love Disney

 

[#1hoosierfan]

No, we are not priced out of the parks.

Disney cruises, yes. I just can't justify the expense when there are other great alternatives so much cheaper.

 

[havaneselover]

Yeah I am missing the point. If you are getting twice as many customers per week through your gift shops, as you are with 2 cruises per week on the ships running 3 to 4 day cruises, versus the 7 day cruises, how can it not be more profitable? Genuine question.

Again, you make assumptions and assume they are facts. You have no evidence that what you are saying is true.

Revenue is likely lower on cruise fares on the shorter cruises. Whether they make that up on sales at the gift shop, etc. is unknown. I've done 7-days and 4-days. I spent a lot more onboard on 7-day cruises. I doubt alcohol sales per day are much different. I bet the adult restaurant sales are very similar. Maybe gift shops sell more/day on short cruises. Maybe they don't (perhaps cruisers on longer cruises have higher incomes and spend more per day).

My point is maybe you're right or you may be wrong. But you have nothing to back up your claims.

 

[tvguy]

Again, you make assumptions and assume they are facts. You have no evidence that what you are saying is true.

Revenue is likely lower on cruise fares on the shorter cruises. Whether they make that up on sales at the gift shop, etc. is unknown. I've done 7-days and 4-days. I spent a lot more onboard on 7-day cruises. I doubt alcohol sales per day are much different. I bet the adult restaurant sales are very similar. Maybe gift shops sell more/day on short cruises. Maybe they don't (perhaps cruisers on longer cruises have higher incomes and spend more per day).

My point is maybe you're right or you may be wrong. But you have nothing to back up your claims.

It's basic marketing, running twice as many people through a week is going to be more profitable. It was discussed at a Disney stockholder's meeting when the Fantasy and Dream were announced, and stockholders questioned whether the new ships would be primarily used for 7 day or 3 and 4 day cruises. Disney said the shorter cruises were more profitable. It may take me a while, but I will see if I can find the transcript from the stock holders meeting. I'm thinking it probably would have been 2010, since that was the last stockholders meeting before the first of the new ships set sail. May also come up again with the 2 new ships set to go into service in 2021 and 2023.

 

[manning]

Disney new economy class cruise

 

[DISNEY1975]

It's basic marketing, running twice as many people through a week is going to be more profitable. It was discussed at a Disney stockholder's meeting when the Fantasy and Dream were announced, and stockholders questioned whether the new ships would be primarily used for 7 day or 3 and 4 day cruises. Disney said the shorter cruises were more profitable. It may take me a while, but I will see if I can find the transcript from the stock holders meeting. I'm thinking it probably would have been 2010, since that was the last stockholders meeting before the first of the new ships set sail. May also come up again with the 2 new ships set to go into service in 2021 and 2023.

I can imagine that being true. Im only going to buy one tee shirt, bracelet etc... on my cruise whether its a 7 or 4 day. With 2 sets of guests buying souvenirs per week, I imagine its more profitable for that.

Now alcohol I would imagine is the same. Im going to drink every day so it doesnt matter is its me or another passenger. (well,. not me because I dont drink, but my husband will!) Disney CLs dont have a casino, so people running out of casino money isnt there. I can only think its the gift shops that would be more profitable on the shorter cruises. Other than that, I cant think of a difference. Maybe the upcharge shows/breakfasts/spa. Yes, Id only go to the spa once during a 7 days, so again, 2 sets of guests would probably bring in more money. And Id only see a show once, so if its running twice in a week, then more money.

But I dont have proof either!

 

[dreiwhit]

Our last trip to WDW cost us around $2600. We did it as cheaply as we could - opened up a Disney credit card for reward gift cards, cashed in credit card rewards, stayed off property, brought our own food in, etc. Even so, its about $1100 to $1400 more than we would spend on a week long vacation somewhere else.

As much as I like our Disney vacations, we can't go back every year. Its just too expensive for us.

 

[tvguy]

I can imagine that being true. Im only going to buy one tee shirt, bracelet etc... on my cruise whether its a 7 or 4 day. With 2 sets of guests buying souvenirs per week, I imagine its more profitable for that.

Now alcohol I would imagine is the same. Im going to drink every day so it doesnt matter is its me or another passenger. (well,. not me because I dont drink, but my husband will!) Disney CLs dont have a casino, so people running out of casino money isnt there. I can only think its the gift shops that would be more profitable on the shorter cruises. Other than that, I cant think of a difference. Maybe the upcharge shows/breakfasts/spa. Yes, Id only go to the spa once during a 7 days, so again, 2 sets of guests would probably bring in more money. And Id only see a show once, so if its running twice in a week, then more money.

But I dont have proof either!

Given how many kids are on board, I suspect gift shop purchases are greater than a more adult cruise. Not sure they are enough to offset the lack of a casino, but, that to me is the reason why DCL fares are so much higher.

 

[goodeats]

The way I do Disney is expensive (deluxe hotels, nice meals, etc). I'd rather do it well than go more often. I think the price of Disney is on par with other "luxury" middle class vacation experiences. Skiing, Beach Vacations, cruises, etc. With college savings, health care, retirement we can't do it all every year. We're not priced out but we certainly can't do it on a whim.

Now Disney Cruise or Aulani pricing I think is truly outrageous. Unless you are going during hurricane season I think it's only for the 1%ers.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I can imagine that being true. Im only going to buy one tee shirt, bracelet etc... on my cruise whether its a 7 or 4 day. With 2 sets of guests buying souvenirs per week, I imagine its more profitable for that.

Now alcohol I would imagine is the same. Im going to drink every day so it doesnt matter is its me or another passenger. (well,. not me because I dont drink, but my husband will!) Disney CLs dont have a casino, so people running out of casino money isnt there. I can only think its the gift shops that would be more profitable on the shorter cruises. Other than that, I cant think of a difference. Maybe the upcharge shows/breakfasts/spa. Yes, Id only go to the spa once during a 7 days, so again, 2 sets of guests would probably bring in more money. And Id only see a show once, so if its running twice in a week, then more money.

But I dont have proof either!

Well with spa and specialty restaurants it's kind of the opposite as the gift shops. People tend not to book extras on shorter cruises because there is already so much to do in so little time. On longer itineraries people don't feel like they have to run around like crazy to do everything so partake in more upcharge activities. My only evidence of this is anecdotal based on conversations with staff.

I don't know how much the 2x the guests through the gift shop factors in to overall profit. Yes, longer cruises cost more overall but it is well known (and across all cruise lines) that your cost per day is cheaper on longer cruises versus shorter cruises.

 

[Darcy03231]

Our last trip to WDW cost us around $2600. We did it as cheaply as we could - opened up a Disney credit card for reward gift cards, cashed in credit card rewards, stayed off property, brought our own food in, etc. Even so, its about $1100 to $1400 more than we would spend on a week long vacation somewhere else.

As much as I like our Disney vacations, we can't go back every year. Its just too expensive for us.

I don't think you're alone. I've been on these boards for quite a while and over the past several years there have been more and more threads about where to stay off-site, where to eat off-site or when on-site where are the meals large enough to split, what to and how to pack food/drinks to bring into the parks, what are the best coolers for the parks, looking for codes for rental cars, etc.

 

[ThistleMae]

In 2015 we spent $ 4000.00 to stay at the Poly for ten days with tickets. We booked through Magical Vacations, and yes it was a special deal. We spent $ 800.00 for food by eating our own breakfast (that we brought) and sharing lunches. We ate at the different resorts every night, and many of them were buffet style, so we couldn't share meals. We splurged on the restaurants because we really enjoy trying the different ones, and relaxing at the end of the night. We could have cut the cost almost in half, if we had stayed at Pop Century. There was a free dinning offer a the time, but we took the room discount instead. This does not include plane fare, which costs us around $ 800.00 for two from NH to Orlando. We are going again in 2018, and will be staying at Pop for 10 days. We just spent $ 1900 for a cruise out of Orlando for two for 9 days. We booked one excursion for $ 156.00. The cost of the plane will be about the same. All the food is included on cruise. Also, we always get PH tickets. So, if we had stayed at Pop Century and didn't hop, I think the two trips would be about the same. So....a lot depends on the offers, whether you PH or not, what resort you stay at and your eating choices. I do think folks will adjust their choices to be able to afford to go. And yes, it is getting more and more expensive to plan a Disney vacation based on the cost of living. But for people who love Disney, and DO think it's worth it....they will figure out a way to be able to afford it.

 

[halfpintpeggy]

The way I do Disney is expensive (deluxe hotels, nice meals, etc). I'd rather do it well than go more often. I think the price of Disney is on par with other "luxury" middle class vacation experiences. Skiing, Beach Vacations, cruises, etc. With college savings, health care, retirement we can't do it all every year. We're not priced out but we certainly can't do it on a whim.

Now Disney Cruise or Aulani pricing I think is truly outrageous. Unless you are going during hurricane season I think it's only for the 1%ers.

I understand what you're saying, I guess different people have different opinions of what it means to "do it well" though...