Kentucky Clerk Kim Davis found in contempt, going to jail

[luvsJack]

Correct, but the vast majority of divorces of convenience are not allowed. And since adultery is one reason divorce would be allowed, because of the gravity of that "sin," if any marriage licenses were issued to adulterers, it's also a "sin" that she did not prohibit.

How exactly would she know they are adulterers?

 

[ariel71]

The Christian bible forbids divorce. She has issued marriage licenses to divorced couples. Fact 1 and fact 2 are anathema to each other. That really is all.

I literally was typing this same fact when I viewed the "new posts". The hypocrisy of only caring about this one biblical marriage "law" is astounding. I brought it up in a thread about the SCOTUS hearing. None of the anti-gay-marriage supporters ever addressed it, just as they're not addressing the many examples raised here of other denominational beliefs that could be invoked to run contrary to current laws.

For those saying she's not discriminating, oh please. Everyone knows that her "not issuing ANY licenses" is some sort of misguided legal smokescreen that she thought would protect her. She can get out of jail if she agrees to issue licenses to same sex individuals; she refuses. Her decision to not do her job is based solely on that matter.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Just wanted to post this before the thread gets closed:

 

[Grmnshplvr]

So in your mind whatever someone is at, say, 20; thats what they are forever?

Thanks, I will let all those former drug addicted, ex con now preachers know they are wasting their time.

No, that is not at all what I meant.

 

[robinb]

In other words, couples who in all likelihood were from far outside Kentucky suddenly decided the only place on earth to for them to join their hearts was a backwater area of that state and in all likelihood have no intention whatsoever of staying there.

Glad to see how some people focus their weddings on being political statements and bring along lawyers as part of the merry retinue.

To each their own.

James Yates and and William Smith, the first couple to receive a marriage licence today, are from Rowan County.

 

[Grmnshplvr]

Would you rather her remain a heathen all her life?

You think anyone that is not Christian is a heathen??

I'd rather she not judge people for doing what she deems immoral while knowing full well she is no saint.

 

[ariel71]

How exactly would she know they are adulterers?

According to her "law", if they were divorced they would be considered adulterers, except in cases of sexual immorality. Which she could look up since her office also records divorces. But the point is that she doesn't seem to care all that much about any other biblical marriage law other than homosexuality.

For someone who doesn't agree with her, you sure seem to be trying to rationalize her actions.

 

[mnrose]

Here's another example that I would like people who think she is "free" to deny marriage licenses and that this is a-ok.

There are many Muslims in this country. And, some of them believe that it is inappropriate and "wrong" for women to drive. Suppose a Muslim is a county clerk and starts to deny driving licenses to all women on the grounds that it violates his/her religious liberty. Would that be fine with you? Would you be defending that person's "religious liberty" and claiming it was an assault to "religious freedom" if the Muslim was fired or jailed for refusing to issue driver's licenses to women? Somehow, I doubt it. But feel free to enlighten me that your support of religious freedom includes this liberty as well.

 

[PantherPete]

Sad day in America to be arrested for religious beliefs,

She isn't being arrested due to her religious beliefs. She is arrested due to her refusal to perform the duties of the job that she was elected to do. She has a choice here - she can do her job or she can resign. If this weren't an elected position, she'd have been fired (and don't give me the bs line of how it is wrong to be fired for your religious beliefs, in the private sector, if I believe something is morally and ethically wrong, but not illegal, I'd be fired if I refused to do it). Unfortunately, they can't just do that or we wouldn't be having this discussion. So the only recourse is to jail her for contempt of court.

For the record, I have no problem with her religious beliefs. She has every right to hate whomever she wants to hate and she has every right to wish and lobby for the continued discrimination of any and all groups of people who are different than her. But what she doesn't have the right to do is refuse to perform the legally mandated responsibilities of the job that she has been elected to do.

And for the record, I'd support jailing her in the opposite situation, i.e. if the Supreme Court said that gay marriage is illegal and she decided to issue marriage certificates to homosexuals because of her beliefs.

If you don't like the tasks you are to perform at your job, don't take the job. She knew there was a risk that she could be compelled to issue marriage licences to same sex couples when she ran for election and still choose to run.

 

[Kimberlyann11]

Would you rather her remain a heathen all her life?

If she was a better person as a heathen, then sure. I don't think she identified as a heathen, though. She probably identified as Christian although I am not positive. Nobody can answer that for sure except to say she wasn't rilly, rilly christian.

And she was probably a lot more fun at parties.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Like Sam said she was refusing across the board. So she wasn't picking anyone out.

Was she asking them details of their lives? Was she telling them they are wrong? Was she saying anything to them? No. She made the decision not to perform an action because of the facts placed before her. She was choosing not to do something that she believes is wrong. Belief that HER actions would be wrong.

I don't agree with her actions, but I don't agree that she was judging.

Maybe in her mind this was her way of taking a stand against a law she believes is wrong. Like a doctor who won't perform an abortion.

1. If she didn't have to issue gays marriage licenses, she'd be issuing licenses. Taking one's ball and going home so nobody can play ball because timmy is allowed on the field is indeed still picking out Timmy. Back in college, when my coach said Smith messed up. So today we're all going to run stadium stairs, trust me, he was still picking out Smith. Similarly, she is the one that created the situation. Either Gays aren't getting licenses or nobody is getting licenses. That's still picking out gays.

2. If what she is doing isn't judging, and I think it goes well beyond just judging, then very little is.

3. Kim Davis at any point in the process could have done what any doctor who doesn't want to perform abortions would have done if their medical group decided to require it. Resign. . That was a perfectly legal and moral way to protest. She chose not to. She chose to grandstand instead. And a judge gave her a chance to appear and give herself another way out by letting those that didn't object issue the license instead. Kim Davis chose not to appear and have her attorney say she didn't authorize them to do it. She was given several outs. She was given every chance. She chose not to take any of them.

 

[daughtersrus]

Here's another example that I would like people who think she is "free" to deny marriage licenses and that this is a-ok.

There are many Muslims in this country. And, some of them believe that it is inappropriate and "wrong" for women to drive. Suppose a Muslim is a county clerk and starts to deny driving licenses to all women on the grounds that it violates his/her religious liberty. Would that be fine with you? Would you be defending that person's "religious liberty" and claiming it was an assault to "religious freedom" if the Muslim was fired or jailed for refusing to issue driver's licenses to women? Somehow, I doubt it. But feel free to enlighten me that your support of religious freedom includes this liberty as well.

Or a doctor that refuses to give a patient a life-saving blood transfusion because his/her religion believes that the Bible prohibits them.

 

[Hrhpd]

Here's another example that I would like people who think she is "free" to deny marriage licenses and that this is a-ok.

There are many Muslims in this country. And, some of them believe that it is inappropriate and "wrong" for women to drive. Suppose a Muslim is a county clerk and starts to deny driving licenses to all women on the grounds that it violates his/her religious liberty. Would that be fine with you? Would you be defending that person's "religious liberty" and claiming it was an assault to "religious freedom" if the Muslim was fired or jailed for refusing to issue driver's licenses to women? Somehow, I doubt it. But feel free to enlighten me that your support of religious freedom includes this liberty as well.

Or how about your young daughter goes to her first day of school. Her teacher's religion believes that only boys need a good education. So, the teacher refuses to teach the girls in her class and instead separates them and hands them a cookbook. There are all sorts of slippery slopes one can go down when you start letting people's religion dictate the law.

 

[Hrhpd]

How exactly would she know they are adulterers?

Since you insist she is basing her decisions on "facts," then perhaps she needs to take the time to research the "facts" of every license she decides to issue.

 

[gwynne]

James Yates and and William Smith, the first couple to receive a marriage license today, are from Rowan County.

Yup, exactly right.
Just to add, the couple live, work, and pay taxes in Rowan county.

It's kind of funny to me how often those facts have to be restated. I don't know why some are so eager to assume the couple must not be from Rowan County. Odd.

 

[rickybobby]

As far as I'm aware, the guy who killed her wasn't an agent of the government.

You may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Okay, once again correcting you because you are wrong. The guy or guys that released this man were agents of the government, disobeying a law on the books that all released illegal immigrants were to be turned over to ICE. They released the man into the public, disobeying a law, which ultimately led to this woman's death. That simple enough?

 

[robinb]

She was given several outs. She was given every chance. She chose not to take any of them.

Apparently she now wants her name to be removed from an "authorization statement" which is required to be included with all marriage licences.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jailed-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis-offers-remedy-sex/story?id=33532686

I'm not sure what exactly the "authorization statement" is. My guess it's a preprinted form that has the head clerk's name on it that attests that all the paperwork is in order.

 

[luvsJack]

According to her "law", if they were divorced they would be considered adulterers, except in cases of sexual immorality. Which she could look up since her office also records divorces. But the point is that she doesn't seem to care all that much about any other biblical marriage law other than homosexuality.

For someone who doesn't agree with her, you sure seem to be trying to rationalize her actions.

No. Unless you know the exact teachings of her faith, you have no idea where it stands on divorce. There are many reasons for divorce. And there are those who divorced and later their lfe changed. Thats not something she can tell by looking at them.

I don't agree with her choices. But I don't feel its right to immediately jump on the bandwagon of her being a hypocrite.

I am not justfying what she did. She had the choice to step down and she should have. Her faith should not be questioned because she doesn't believe as you do or as some like to assume she does.

 

[luvsJack]

Since you insist she is basing her decisions on "facts," then perhaps she needs to take the time to research the "facts" of every license she decides to issue.

I don't think she is a private detective. It would be rather hard to research secret affairs.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't know why some are so eager to assume they couple must not be from Rowan County.

I am glad that couple got their license. But there HAVE been couples who came from other counties (Madison, about an hour from Rowan) and states (Ohio) to apply for licenses.