Jodi Arias Trial Part 4, starting with redirect of "expert" Dr Samuels, March 19

[kellyg403]

Wow...you guys have been busy!! I have had to work and will again today into the evening so I have been missing the trial live, but trying to catch up at night. My hope is the jury questions are heard today, but wonder how long will it take for the DT and PT to go over the questions etc. So if there is court tomorrow, hopefully we will hear them this week.

Some things I hope that they ask are wouldn't the test for the PTSD have been more valid if they retook the test when she was supposedly telling the truth and SHE killed Travis. Travi wasn't a stranger, so the answer to that question was blatantly false answer given by Jodi. How can answers given falsely to stick to a cover up story even be considered valid in this doc's opinion? Makes no sense?

I also am hoping they disregard the testimony just on the basis that he went back 2 years later, went over his notes and added scoring. I realize it doesn't change the 'degree' of the PTSD that he is saying happened, but all the answers given to the questions were false answers. He should have left it as is. Now, it just sounds like he was giving her more of a score to cancel out those scores on questions we know are false, like the stranger thing.

I like Juan quite a bit and think he is doing a great job. But, he does get a bit on the argumentative side from time to time.

I don't think this witness did the DT any good. I am curious to see what the dv expert says. It should be interesting. And as always, this guy is getting paid 250 bucks an hour. They couldn't find another dr willing to testify and give these tests etc for 250 an hour. Seems like they had nowhere else to go. IMHO, there was not another dr willing to say things about her. I did read on another site that her scoring also indicates personality disorders for sure.

Kelly

 

[crz4mm2]

Catching up from yest on the you tube videos.

 

[kellyg403]

I saw the results of the voting a little while ago and had flashbacks to the CA trial. Two "jurors" voted not guilty. When questioned, one of them said, "Well, you think she's faking it, and I think she's faking it, but we can't PROVE that she's faking it" (or something to that nature). There is NO evidence that she has PTSD. It's convoluted thinking. Heaven help us when these people wind up on juries...

ETA: I don't know that I could have controlled myself in the courtroom when T.J. Lane had his outburst. Thank goodness, he got life in prison without parole.

I haven't watched any of the 'juror' shows, but this is interesting. Definitely flashbacks. But, we do know how TA was killed and we do know who did it because she admitted it. I can't imagine that she will even get close to the Not Guilty vote. However, I am a little leery on whether they will decide dp as opposed to lwop. This trial has been a circus. Can't even keep things together. Quite a bit of trash covering up the bottom line. Lets hope that the jurors are trying to stick to the facts and not the other stuff that keeps coming up.

I wonder if one of 'our' jurors will ask if going and confronting girls that cheated with her 'boyfriends' would be considered aggressive or assertive. Plus, in my book, the only place she sang about daisies is in that diary. She kept it in her purse, hoping Travis would read it and know how much she loved him. Thats why there isn't anything negative. Yet, she had no problems confronting Bianca, was assertive enough to quit school and move in with a boyfriend as a jr in high school, assertive enough to land in Mesa after the breakup. To me, making a decision and doing it is asserting your will.

Do I have that totally wrong?

Kelly

 

[2Kds2K9]

Good Morning all!

Like everyone else, been thinking about this whole PTSD stuff. IMO, yes, she did/is suffering from some sort of PTSD. I believe the brain protects us from horrible things in life and won't reveal them until we are capable to handle them. HOWEVER, that is NOT the point of this case. She is charged with Pre-Meditated MURDER. She went there with the intention of inflicting harm on Travis! So, what happened after, is really not that important IMO.

Since he did not test her prior to the murder, he can't comment if she had it before or not. There is no basis!

Nancy Grace was on GMA this am and commented that she thought Mr. Juanderful had "sliced up Dick Samuels like a Thanksgiving Turkey!"

Waiting to see what today brings!

Have a good one!

 

[crz4mm2]

I haven't watched any of the 'juror' shows, but this is interesting. Definitely flashbacks. But, we do know how TA was killed and we do know who did it because she admitted it. I can't imagine that she will even get close to the Not Guilty vote. However, I am a little leery on whether they will decide dp as opposed to lwop. This trial has been a circus. Can't even keep things together. Quite a bit of trash covering up the bottom line. Lets hope that the jurors are trying to stick to the facts and not the other stuff that keeps coming up.

I wonder if one of 'our' jurors will ask if going and confronting girls that cheated with her 'boyfriends' would be considered aggressive or assertive. Plus, in my book, the only place she sang about daisies is in that diary. She kept it in her purse, hoping Travis would read it and know how much she loved him. Thats why there isn't anything negative. Yet, she had no problems confronting Bianca, was assertive enough to quit school and move in with a boyfriend as a jr in high school, assertive enough to land in Mesa after the breakup. To me, making a decision and doing it is asserting your will.

Do I have that totally wrong?

Kelly

No you do not. YOu are spot on in my opinion.

Good Morning all!

Like everyone else, been thinking about this whole PTSD stuff. IMO, yes, she did/is suffering from some sort of PTSD. I believe the brain protects us from horrible things in life and won't reveal them until we are capable to handle them. HOWEVER, that is NOT the point of this case. She is charged with Pre-Meditated MURDER. She went there with the intention of inflicting harm on Travis! So, what happened after, is really not that important IMO.

Since he did not test her prior to the murder, he can't comment if she had it before or not. There is no basis!

Nancy Grace was on GMA this am and commented that she thought Mr. Juanderful had "sliced up Dick Samuels like a Thanksgiving Turkey!"

Waiting to see what today brings!

Have a good one!

I agree.
She did not have PTSD BEFORE she murdered him.
LOVE Nancy Grace's line!

 

[crz4mm2]

Lawd, Willie had to tell him where in his notes the answers are! Holy Moly.

 

[kellyg403]

Lawd, Willie had to tell him where in his notes the answers are! Holy Moly.

He does come across as the disorganized mad scientist type.

I understand the DT is attempting to make it seem like this was such a traumatic event for Jodi that she acquired PTSD from it, basically having to defend herself 'broke' her mind. Morally she couldn't believe she had to do it. They are trying to save her life. Make it seem like she has feelings.

I think the Rebuttal part of this case is going to be super interesting. I really do.

Kelly

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

When a person murders another person and claims to have fognesia, does this fognesia manifest itself in such a way that the murderer will only remember the events that help their defense but will forget any event that might hurt their defense?

FOGNESIA! That's a keeper (no matter where it came from!)

Has JM asked this question yet? I know it's been asked of someone...but whom? Just Jodi?

Anyone going to watch HLN After Dark? Is Baez going to be on again tonight?

No. Hopefully they'll never have him on again. Dr Seindlin (spaceshot) presented the case (Jodes has PTSD or not), and Linda Kenny Baden was on. I CANNOT STAND HER (she was at one point before trial on CA's DT and she did occasional commentary during the trial; her voice could give me a seizure) but I found her somewhat tolerable last night.

I didn't understand why he had that and it was allowed. At first I thought that it was him being remorseful and labeling himself in a negative way, like, "I'm nothing more than a terrible killer and feel so bad that I shouldn't even be considered anything else". Still, I wouldn't have found it acceptable and I don't know why that judge didn't say "Nope, court is in a 5 minute recess" and take that kid in the back, make him take off the shirt and put back on his button up. His lawyer said he was "shocked"...well he should have been so shocked that he tell his client how inappropriate it is.

So did I, or that he was being forced to wear it. I only saw a still picture tho. According to what I posted upthread, the judge didn't see it. But I didn't see video, so I'm not sure that's even possible. That shirt in conjunction with what he SAID is what I think is so horrible.

I saw the results of the voting a little while ago and had flashbacks to the CA trial. Two "jurors" voted not guilty. When questioned, one of them said, "Well, you think she's faking it, and I think she's faking it, but we can't PROVE that she's faking it" (or something to that nature). There is NO evidence that she has PTSD. It's convoluted thinking. Heaven help us when these people wind up on juries...

I know! But hopefully even those two jurors would still find her guilty of the actual crime since the PTSD is after the murder, so the important evidence is the premeditation (even tho not everyone believes there's evidence of that) and the overkill in a supposed attempt to defend herself. And the lying. And everything else.

On HLN After Dark, they talked about the test a bit. Don't tell me that test isn't easy to fake. Jodi doesn't have to know anything about PTSD to know how to make certain answers fit the BS she's dishing out.

 

[crz4mm2]

I think they want to show she had PTSD BEFORE the murder.... So she can't be held responsible......

No premeditation= no death.

I don't think the defense is doing a very good job of trying to prove that. Should have had a better witness....

 

[kellyg403]

I think they want to show she had PTSD BEFORE the murder.... So she can't be held responsible......

No premeditation= no death.

I don't think the defense is doing a very good job of trying to prove that. Should have had a better witness....

See I was thinking differently. That they were saying that she got the PTSD from the murder itself because she morally could not handle what she had done. That it wasn't premeditated because she was morally unable to do the murder until she had to defend herself. The DV will come in and say she was so beaten down with no self esteem, that she had been abused enough times that she could have defended herself but didn't because it didn't feel life threatening. This time was different. She couldn't stop what was happening and caused her mind to 'skip' the event. IMHO.

Again, I think it is so interesting that we all see/hear the same things and get different views.

And no, I don't think the DT was able to prove that. The cover up the crime, going to Ryans, the gas cans...way too much for this to be a spur of the moment decision on her part.

Kelly

 

[PebblesMK]

See I was thinking differently. That they were saying that she got the PTSD from the murder itself because she morally could not handle what she had done. That it wasn't premeditated because she was morally unable to do the murder until she had to defend herself. The DV will come in and say she was so beaten down with no self esteem, that she had been abused enough times that she could have defended herself but didn't because it didn't feel life threatening. This time was different. She couldn't stop what was happening and caused her mind to 'skip' the event. IMHO.

Again, I think it is so interesting that we all see/hear the same things and get different views.

And no, I don't think the DT was able to prove that. The cover up the crime, going to Ryans, the gas cans...way too much for this to be a spur of the moment decision on her part.
Kelly

Yes, there are too many coincidences in regards to her behavior for it NOT to be premeditated. Sure, maybe she still went to Ryan's, but comments to that Udi lady and the phone calls to Travis and the gas cans and the normalcy at Ryan's, the clean up, the turning up the AC, locking the door, putting the dog out, putting "dirty" laundry in the washer, cleaning up the scene, remembering to clean herself off...nope, doesn't all add up.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I wonder if one of 'our' jurors will ask if going and confronting girls that cheated with her 'boyfriends' would be considered aggressive or assertive. Plus, in my book, the only place she sang about daisies is in that diary. She kept it in her purse, hoping Travis would read it and know how much she loved him. Thats why there isn't anything negative. Yet, she had no problems confronting Bianca, was assertive enough to quit school and move in with a boyfriend as a jr in high school, assertive enough to land in Mesa after the breakup. To me, making a decision and doing it is asserting your will.

Do I have that totally wrong?

Kelly

No. You made excellent points.

I agree.
She did not have PTSD BEFORE she murdered him.

Or if she did, EVERYBODY has PTSD. The way it's been presented, everything causes PTSD, so just let everyone out of prison, because everyone's screwed up.

And that's one of the things that kills me about trials and defendants. There's always an excuse...tough childhood, yada yada yada. So, should only happy, well-adjusted people be held responsible for their crimes, like shooting someone, stabbing 28 times, and slashing his throat?

I think the Rebuttal part of this case is going to be super interesting. I really do.

Kelly

Can.not.wait.

Mark Eiglarsh, defense attorney and frequent guest on Dr Drew (and one of the reasons I can bare to watch Dr Drew) said last night, about Samuels' testimony: "His position at times has left me as confused as a homeless person on house arrest." Followed by Dr Drew's "Or as useless as the G in lasagna."

 

[crz4mm2]

See I was thinking differently. That they were saying that she got the PTSD from the murder itself because she morally could not handle what she had done. That it wasn't premeditated because she was morally unable to do the murder until she had to defend herself. The DV will come in and say she was so beaten down with no self esteem, that she had been abused enough times that she could have defended herself but didn't because it didn't feel life threatening. This time was different. She couldn't stop what was happening and caused her mind to 'skip' the event. IMHO.

Again, I think it is so interesting that we all see/hear the same things and get different views.

And no, I don't think the DT was able to prove that. The cover up the crime, going to Ryans, the gas cans...way too much for this to be a spur of the moment decision on her part.

Kelly

hummmm.
Interesting. I think you might be on to something there. I sure didn't see it that way and I don't think they have a prayer of getting the jury to believe that....
Yes, the cover up, the gas cans, the "coincidental" theft of her grandparents gun, going back to her original hair color, turning off her cell phone, throwing away the floor mats........
WAY too much.

 

[PebblesMK]

No. You made excellent points. Or if she did, EVERYBODY has PTSD. The way it's been presented, everything causes PTSD, so just let everyone out of prison, because everyone's screwed up.

And that's one of the things that kills me about trials and defendants. There's always an excuse...tough childhood, yada yada yada. So, should only happy, well-adjusted people be held responsible for their crimes, like shooting someone, stabbing 28 times, and slashing his throat? Can.not.wait.

Mark Eiglarsh, defense attorney and frequent guest on Dr Drew (and one of the reasons I can bare to watch Dr Drew) said last night, about Samuels' testimony: "His position at times has left me as confused as a homeless person on house arrest." Followed by Dr Drew's "Or as useless as the G in lasagna."

That is the funniest quote thus far today!

 

[lorimay]

Good Morning.

I saw the defense attorney for that piece of garbage in Ohio on TV saying that they were going to appeal the sentence.

I don't get it, he plead guilty and now he gets an appeal???
Hopefully he gets the death sentence this time.

He took the plea deal to avoid death.
Just hoping it now backfires with an appeal.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

There is another justice site that I go on and someone provided a link to a blog that I read and found interesting. So, I thought I would share that link here.

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-dr-samuels-second-day-of-testimony-oops/

 

[2DisPrincesses]

There is another justice site that I go on and someone provided a link to a blog that I read and found interesting. So, I thought I would share that link here.

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-dr-samuels-second-day-of-testimony-oops/

Wow- big difference between 3-8 people/100,000 and 3-8%. This guy is a joke and an embarrassment to many in the field I would think.

 

[PebblesMK]

Good Morning.

I saw the defense attorney for that piece of garbage in Ohio on TV saying that they were going to appeal the sentence.

I don't get it, he plead guilty and now he gets an appeal???
Hopefully he gets the death sentence this time.

He took the plea deal to avoid death.
Just hoping it now backfires with an appeal.

Unfortunately, he was 17 at the time of the murder so he can not get the death penalty. Not sure what they're appealing, perhaps the extra 47 years he was sentenced?

 

[lorimay]

Did you guys catch when "Willie"(love that name) said to the numbskull, "would you say it would be unethical(maybe not exact word) if another psychologist came to the stand and said a person with a score of less than 75 on the PTSD does not have it"?

She was setting that up for when JM calls his guy up in rebuttal.

She is a piece of work grasping at straws.

 

[lorimay]

Unfortunately, he was 17 at the time of the murder so he can not get the death penalty. Not sure what they're appealing, perhaps the extra 47 years he was sentenced?

He should have been tried as an adult.
Especially after his behavior yesterday.