I've read the writing on the wall, and its not a great big beautiful tomorrow

[momof2n2]

I know, I rode it 5 times in that last hour that night and kept walking past the same people each time, the sign was correct.

ok. I'll bite. Howdja do that ....?

 

[HopperFan]

ok. I'll bite. Howdja do that ....?

I was trying to figure out where he was walking, assuming he was riding, that he could see the same people, assuming they were standby waiting.

 

[MolonLabe]

I was trying to figure out where he was walking, assuming he was riding, that he could see the same people, assuming they were standby waiting.

For a good portion (enough of it) you can see most of the stand by queue as you go through the FP queue.

 

[momof2n2]

But how did you have 5 FP+s?

 

[HopperFan]

For a good portion (enough of it) you can see most of the stand by queue as you go through the FP queue.

Not buying it. You rode the last hour of the night, dark. The standby line for it is very dark and there is a quite a bit of landscape between the FP and the SB line the short distance they are visible to each other. Honestly, why pay any attention to those people to know they are the same ones. At 40 minutes the standby line would not have been all the way out by the FP line so you can really see. If folks are back there then the line would be 75+ minutes. FP enters the building very quickly and you do not see any of the SB folks except for the first few that are entering the boarding area. You also state you rode 5 times in that hour - which I guess means you went in the FP line with at least 4-5 re-entry tickets because it wasn't FP+.

Aside from the story the argument is there are "No. Just NO." strategies to riding without a huge wait. Well, there are folks eating breakfast at BOG then walking on as one of the first to ride, I know we rode with a 10 minute wait during EMH and my DD who is a CM said they ride all the time with minimal wait closer to closing. Guests seem to think the ride closes at closing when the line closes - all those in line get to ride. We have also had no problem getting FP+ with short notice, I got them a week out for MLK weekend for 3. DS got them for last Friday - the week before for 3.

 

[Shaden]

So has the volume of visitors, hmmm that really could be it not just fp+

Year Magic Kingdom Epcot Disney's Hollywood Studios Disney's Animal Kingdom
2008[12] 17,063,000 10,935,000 9,608,000 9,540,000
2009[13] 17,233,000 10,990,000 9,700,000 9,590,000
2010[14] 16,972,000 10,825,000 9,603,000 9,686,000
2011[15] 17,142,000 10,826,000 9,699,000 9,783,000
2012[16] 17,536,000 11,063,000 9,912,000 9,998,000
2013[17] 18,588,000 11,229,000 10,110,000 10,198,000

This is a simple volume problem not just and Fast pass system problem...

Amazing that adding just an average of 835 people per day can have such a drastic effect...

Almost 3k a day more at MK in 2013 over 2012. Be interesting to see the spike for 2014. This is what happens when the park attractions are set for 16m guests at MK and they get close to 19m.

Then there is HS, probably has attractions for 5m...

The Spike in wait times was between 2013 and 2014 it was literally one year to the next. I am sure that wait times have gone up over the 2008-2014 period as well, but when people have been reporting the spike in wait times its one year to the next. Josh@ easy WDW all through 2014 was comparing wait times to the previous year, now its true that Fall/early winter attendance in 2014 was up a hefty 7%, but summer and Spring attendance was only up 3%. That's a significant number of people to be sure, but I don't think that accounts for some of the significant increases in wait times.

 

[SplashMo]

www.touringplans.com (paid site) has touring plans that can help you get on 7DMT. They do not even recommend a FP+ for it (which seems wrong in my book). They do have ideas for when to ride it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I did my research/planning online before we went to DLR, and I went in thinking Rider Swap would be the same as WDW. We have never used it much, but it does occasionally come in handy. The first day they turned us down at Haunted Mansion, which I understood because technically my child could go on the ride. (He has some sensory issues that make him unable to go on some rides he could physically/height-wise go on). I thought I had read online that they did offer Rider Swap for Soarin (which my child is too short to ride). But we were turned away at the podium at Soarin. I was totally confused. I asked for clarification, and they do NOT do Rider Swap at Soarin and the child is not allowed in the queue (as of 6/14).

I'm Confused....too short children aren't allowed in the queue at wdw either. RS passes are given by CMs at the entrance to the attraction.

 

[rluey29]

We hate the new system. We are AP holders who live 35 minutes away, that being said we typically ride our three FP+ rides then leave. Rides such as Pirates and Haunted Mansion that we used to just walk on now most days have 35-45 minute waits when we are there. Have only been able to get FP+ for 7 Dwarfs Mine Train once and it was for 11:00 at night. My kids are in bed by that time. I understand that is new but we were able to ride EE when it opened every time we went with FP. We are just so bummed about this it has diminished what Disney was for us.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We went during summer in 2010 so it was 8 or 9 crowds.

As for switching, with FP+ we could do same day in park swapping for anything outside of the headliner, first week of June last year. Sure if you dont do 60 days out you might not get the time you want (which was random under old FP anyway), but i doubt they are all gone by the 30 day mark, or even 7 days out. The biggest issue remains too few attractions for the increased crowds.

I'm glad you found success with same day availability on your trip. We were there in November, with crowd level 6s, and had very little success in changing FP+ in the park (or booking 4th FP+ and beyond).

From a the threads I've read over the last year, it seems like FP+ works best on high crowd days and low crowd days....it's those 5-7 crowd level days where it seems many have had issues (or at east they did in the Fall, as there were tons of stories similar to mine around October/November last year, during party season)

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm Confused....too short children aren't allowed in the queue at wdw either. RS passes are given by CMs at the entrance to the attraction.

Yes, I'd be really surprised to see a "too short" child allowed to enter any queue.

 

[mom2rtk]

But if you are 40 minutes quicker at one ride and 15 minutes longer at 2 others, you are ahead. You have no proof it is actually 15 minutes more at all other rides just like i have none it might be 40 faster at others. My own experience last summer was a 60 min posted SB was really 30 or 40 only, i walked on 15 or 20 posted waits frequently, and my FP were 5 min or less.

Here's where the wait time argument falls apart. If I want to ride TSMM and RnR I used to be able to ride both with FP. Now I can't do that. One of my waits now shifts from a FP wait to a standby wait. If I want a second ride on RnR that also shifts from a FP wait to a standby wait.

It doesn't matter if a given line is up or down 5 or 10 minutes. I can deal with that.

It's the ones that are shifting from a FP to a standby wait that are going to increase our overall park waiting exponentially.

 

[lauradis]

The Spike in wait times was between 2013 and 2014 it was literally one year to the next. I am sure that wait times have gone up over the 2008-2014 period as well, but when people have been reporting the spike in wait times its one year to the next. Josh@ easy WDW all through 2014 was comparing wait times to the previous year, now its true that Fall/early winter attendance in 2014 was up a hefty 7%, but summer and Spring attendance was only up 3%. That's a significant number of people to be sure, but I don't think that accounts for some of the significant increases in wait times.

I think its a combo, of FP+, Volume. Disney has been pushing the general public with in info on FP+ I think more people are using it then fp-

 

[Pbeh]

First time I went as an adult was my first experience with fast pass. I read a lot about it before going and had a plan, and we rode everything we wanted to (2012). We went again the next year with friends of ours, they did no pre planning, but I told them I would get them on anything they wanted with my fast pass strategy, at the end of the day they were very surprised how easy it was (2013). Then we went March 2014, pre 7DMT, with fast pass+ as off site guests, and couldn't event get a pass until we were in the park. We still rode what we wanted, but was much more limited and spread out. I do not like the new system, but I understand why they switched.

All those times I was whizzing through those fast pass lines, I'd always look at the long stand by queues and wonder why those people weren't doing fast pass. I realized after going with my friends that a lot of people were clueless about it. I bet those people were giving feedback to Disney about how unfair it was they were paying so much money and were waiting in long lines all day and not getting on everything. I remember hearing people getting very upset at RnRc about the fast pass people pouring in front of them. I had to laugh because they seemed so ignorant about the system. But they did not think it was funny at all. Im sure they were leaving and saying never again!

I don't like FP+ personally, I would much rather go back to the old system. But I think a lot of people who are not researchers like many on here probably think it's great. Good luck to all learning the new system, I will keep looking for loopholes and strategy so that at our next visit in August we will still be ahead of those guests who don't do much research, even if the gap is now much less then before!

 

[wisblue]

If you're going to try to discuss how the average guest is affected by FP+ and higher crowds, maybe you should start with what you think the experience of the average guest was in the first place.

I don't think the average guest was or is doing 20 attractions in a day at MK, and the average guest definitely wasn't getting multiple rides on the parks' most popular attractions. The simple math of the capacity of attractions would preclude that.

There definitely are some guests who are not able to do as much because of FP+. The most obvious category is the group that used paper FPs to its fullest advantage, especially if that involved getting multiple FPs for one or more attractions. But, there must be people who are able to do more because of FP+ given the same overall crowd size, park hours, and ride capacities. I know that we were able to do more over our recent Easter trip because of judicious use of rope drop and morning EMH and then using FPs later in the day. But, because of our overall knowledge of the parks and how lines build up, I don't consider ourselves to be average guests either.

One place where the analysis of lesser experience breaks down is when it talks about standby lines being 15 minutes longer than they used to be. I can attest to the fact that in those first couple of hours at the MK, most standby lines are not 15 minutes long, much less 15 minutes longer than they used to be. If you can do ones that have the longest lines early or with FPs you can do everything you want once with a short wait. If you aren't willing to get to the park early, or are not satisfied doing things once in a day, I can see where you might have a harder time.

 

[lauradis]

First time I went as an adult was my first experience with fast pass. I read a lot about it before going and had a plan, and we rode everything we wanted to (2012). We went again the next year with friends of ours, they did no pre planning, but I told them I would get them on anything they wanted with my fast pass strategy, at the end of the day they were very surprised how easy it was (2013). Then we went March 2014, pre 7DMT, with fast pass+ as off site guests, and couldn't event get a pass until we were in the park. We still rode what we wanted, but was much more limited and spread out. I do not like the new system, but I understand why they switched.

All those times I was whizzing through those fast pass lines, I'd always look at the long stand by queues and wonder why those people weren't doing fast pass. I realized after going with my friends that a lot of people were clueless about it. I bet those people were giving feedback to Disney about how unfair it was they were paying so much money and were waiting in long lines all day and not getting on everything. I remember hearing people getting very upset at RnRc about the fast pass people pouring in front of them. I had to laugh because they seemed so ignorant about the system. But they did not think it was funny at all. Im sure they were leaving and saying never again!

I don't like FP+ personally, I would much rather go back to the old system. But I think a lot of people who are not researchers like many on here probably think it's great. Good luck to all learning the new system, I will keep looking for loopholes and strategy so that at our next visit in August we will still be ahead of those guests who don't do much research, even if the gap is now much less then before!

http://www.disboards.com/threads/ma...-new-mde-see-post-227-before-posting.3245463/

This is one of the best loophole threads, I haven't tried it. I might try it in dec 2015 but haven't decided.

 

[Astridia]

But compare the price of a value to Universal hotels. And I prefer the discounts that Disney offers military. We are going next month and are paying an average of $85 a night at Pop and that gives me my FP+. Now add in the discount Disney is gracious enough to give in tickets to the military and the decision is a no brainier for me. I have stayed deluxe at Disney once and probably will not again, because we don't go to be in the hotel. Even with the access granted t Universal hotels, why do I want to pay hundreds a night for a hotel if I am not there to enjoy it? No matter what system Disney uses, someone will be unhappy. And that is why you have the choice to find the destination that best fits your family. Sure, you can be upset about it, but does that accomplish anything?

I was comparing Disney deluxe prices to Universal deluxe prices. That's all. I'm glad you are able to get a great discount from Disney, I'm not in the military so I can't enjoy that benefit. BTW thanks for serving.

 

[Anesthesia Fine]

At the same time The Great Movie Ride is creating artificial lines and FP use because people are just taking what they can get when before that was a ride you went to while killing time.

I'll agree with this. I like FP+ fine, and heck, it might even be because I only went on one legacy FP trip. But I did plenty of trips without either and I don't ever recall seeing standby lines as crazy as some were on our last trip.

 

[magicbob]

I just got home on Wednesday from our trip. I was able to change our fast passes during the day a couple of the days (but I will say I did not attempt to add a FP+ for 7 dwarves). We did 7 Dwarves on our FP+, but we also waited in line for it twice. Neither time we waited was more than 15-20 minutes. Once was early in the morning on Monday (but not right at rope drop, maybe around 9:30AM), and we rode it twice as walk ons during the EMH.

We spent 6 days in the parks, and the longest wait we had for anything was 25 minutes on Space Mountain.

We had no issues with the FP+ app (well, except Saturday, when it didn't work for most of the day, and it wasn't only us having a problem getting logged in). We changed FP+ reservations several times and were able to get pretty much exactly what we wanted on the day of (granted, we weren't lookin for 7D, Anna & Elsa, Fireworks or parades).

We enjoyed our trip so much that we upgraded to Annual Passes while were there, and are planning two more trips before our APs expire.

YMMV.

But how did you have 5 FP+s?

Party of five where four chose not to ride and PP rode using their MBs?

 

[Planogirl]

If you're going to try to discuss how the average guest is affected by FP+ and higher crowds, maybe you should start with what you think the experience of the average guest was in the first place.

I don't think the average guest was or is doing 20 attractions in a day at MK, and the average guest definitely wasn't getting multiple rides on the parks' most popular attractions. The simple math of the capacity of attractions would preclude that.

There definitely are some guests who are not able to do as much because of FP+. The most obvious category is the group that used paper FPs to its fullest advantage, especially if that involved getting multiple FPs for one or more attractions. But, there must be people who are able to do more because of FP+ given the same overall crowd size, park hours, and ride capacities. I know that we were able to do more over our recent Easter trip because of judicious use of rope drop and morning EMH and then using FPs later in the day. But, because of our overall knowledge of the parks and how lines build up, I don't consider ourselves to be average guests either.

One place where the analysis of lesser experience breaks down is when it talks about standby lines being 15 minutes longer than they used to be. I can attest to the fact that in those first couple of hours at the MK, most standby lines are not 15 minutes long, much less 15 minutes longer than they used to be. If you can do ones that have the longest lines early or with FPs you can do everything you want once with a short wait. If you aren't willing to get to the park early, or are not satisfied doing things once in a day, I can see where you might have a harder time.

I agree. In that regard, nothing has changed because those who arrive at rope drop still get more done. We ran into problems in the afternoons after using our FP+ but that is likely due to a combination of FP+ and bigger crowds as someone previously said.