Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[VegasMike]

Lets face it. Some folks will always have their Mouse Goggles on and think Disney is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Having kids is a big factor. I and the wife not having kids can't understand why childless couples or empty nesters would bother with Disney or Universal over the ala carte offerings of both resort and entertainment offerings of the south Vegas area. It's all subjective ! Small kids love Disney, teens love Universal. Adults that want to be entertained like adults ( no not strip clubs, gambling and the like, there is much more to do there ) love Vegas. IMHO

 

[Budshark]

Lets face it. Some folks will always have their Mouse Goggles on and think Disney is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Having kids is a big factor. I and the wife not having kids can't understand why childless couples or empty nesters would bother with Disney or Universal over the ala carte offerings of both resort and entertainment offerings of the south Vegas area. It's all subjective ! Small kids love Disney, teens love Universal. Adults that want to be entertained like adults ( no not strip clubs, gambling and the like, there is much more to do there ) love Vegas. IMHO

Wow.

 

[VegasMike]

LOL Not sure what to make of " WOW"

 

[Budshark]

Just never seen anyone paint with a brush that large...

 

[mort1331]

WOW...different Adult entertainment. I for one do not like Vegas, for a number of reasons. But I am looking forward to our boys week in WDW. The golf, W&F and mixed entertainment. But there is different things for different folks.
If you asked me this 8 years ago, I would have thought Vegas all the way, but then I went once to WDW and put all my previous notions away.

 

[sachilles]

:shrug: Different people like different things. Lots of entertainment in this beautiful country of ours.

I do think Universal and Disney hit different demographics with some overlap.

 

[DoingDisney]

Yup, no kiddies here, and while we have some gripes with Disney of late, still love the place and can't wait to get back to it.

 

[Planogirl]

I agree that people like different things. I'm astounded when I read that Uni doesn't have good food when you simply have to know where to eat. Just like at Disney. We've also had great interactions with TM's including characters so I never understand those comments either.

Blinders? Maybe. Or perhaps just unlucky experiences.

 

[mvk]

The worst vacation me and the wife went on was to Vegas. Just wasn't of interest to us, we'll never go back.

First time we went to Disney together (she hadn't been since high school marching band trip), she wondered why we hadn't gone sooner. We probably wouldn't have traded our honeymoon in St. Croix for Disney, but if we had a do-over it would likely be a tough choice.

 

[VegasMike]

Maybe I should have said that the wife and I are 13 year vets of WDW. Our first 3 years were as cash guests going down twice a year for a week each trip. The following 10 years we were DVC members ( BWV ) going down twice a year for 10 days each trip. So we had the Disney bug for sure. It's hard not to . It's just a point of that for us without kids it was getting repetitive. Same parks, same rides, same food. The place was intended for families, and I see the appeal in that context. But now being older, I find I'm looking for a higher quality experience in my vacations. Being able to see shows featuring people that I see doing tv specials and eating in restaurants operated by famous chefs a the same price point just holds more appeal to me at this point. I hope this makes my perspective a little clearer. It's not that we would never do Disney again, but we could take another 13 years taking in the offerings in Vegas and highly expect the venues there to update or change at a much quicker rate.

 

[sachilles]

Vegas Mike,
Make sure you hit Tacos and beer on Paradise, next to the Fairfield inn, almost straight back from the High Roller. A little hole in the wall, but good. Love that place.

 

[VegasMike]

Vegas Mike,
Make sure you hit Tacos and beer on Paradise, next to the Fairfield inn, almost straight back from the High Roller. A little hole in the wall, but good. Love that place.

Will be back in Vegas mid Feb. Haven't been back there since High Roller went in so we will check it out for sure. Thx for the tip

 

[Josh Hendy]

If and when Universal gets around to developing their new plot of land, I think that Disney should definitely be worried.

Here is the biggest (more or less) contiguous chunk of land ... about 350 acres. I included the outline of IOA and USF for scale ... not including Citywalk, resorts or garages.

There is plenty of room for 2 theme parks, several resorts, parking etc. in this block. It's about 10 minutes down Universal Blvd. from the existing theme park area.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Maybe I should have said that the wife and I are 13 year vets of WDW. Our first 3 years were as cash guests going down twice a year for a week each trip. The following 10 years we were DVC members ( BWV ) going down twice a year for 10 days each trip. So we had the Disney bug for sure. It's hard not to . It's just a point of that for us without kids it was getting repetitive. Same parks, same rides, same food. The place was intended for families, and I see the appeal in that context. But now being older, I find I'm looking for a higher quality experience in my vacations. Being able to see shows featuring people that I see doing tv specials and eating in restaurants operated by famous chefs a the same price point just holds more appeal to me at this point. I hope this makes my perspective a little clearer. It's not that we would never do Disney again, but we could take another 13 years taking in the offerings in Vegas and highly expect the venues there to update or change at a much quicker rate.

I can relate and mirror a lot of what you say...

The main problem I have is that they have sat around WAYYYY too much while at the same time now tried to repackage everything with an implied "premium" label...
...the same stuff.

Why people continue to pay 10% more each year (a guess...but reasonable) for the exact same thing in the aggregate since Iger took over and say NOTHING is almost incomprehensible.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If and when Universal gets around to developing their new plot of land, I think that Disney should definitely be worried.

Here is the biggest (more or less) contiguous chunk of land ... about 350 acres. I included the outline of IOA and USF for scale ... not including Citywalk, resorts or garages.

There is plenty of room for 2 theme parks, several resorts, parking etc. in this block. It's about 10 minutes down Universal Blvd. from the existing theme park area.

View attachment 143704

Wow...I didn't realize from the other posts prior just how close that parcel was...

That isn't even an infrastructure problem -all they need is a short flyover to be constructed over I-4 to allow a "property wide" transportation system...

That's amazing. And they'd control the main corridor through Florida on both sides...simple exposure would siphon off enough to make the mouse jittery.

Can't wait no to see how they try to fight this in Tallahassee...

And Disney is still playing into their hands...

They mothballed MGM for now over a year already without an actionable plan to cover. They're going to put much too much strain on AK And Disney springs Over the next year and they have no clue if any of what they're gonna build will work! And strain Epcot even more...

 

[sachilles]

Is 100% of it suitable to build on?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Is 100% of it suitable to build on?

Universal never made an agreement to preserve wetlands in exchange for the right to issue public bonds...

And universal seems "motivated" to make land "suitable"

 

[Josh Hendy]

That isn't even an infrastructure problem -all they need is a short flyover to be constructed over I-4 to allow a "property wide" transportation system...

That's amazing. And they'd control the main corridor through Florida on both sides...simple exposure would siphon off enough to make the mouse jittery ...[snip]

They mothballed MGM for now over a year already without an actionable plan to cover. They're going to put much too much strain on AK And Disney springs Over the next year and they have no clue if any of what they're gonna build will work! And strain Epcot even more...

Uni now owns what is effectively a footprint as big as WDW, without having to own and run an entire municipality. They don't control the roads between their two properties 100% but they don't have to build and maintain them 100% either. They've got plenty of fellow taxpayers to help with that. Not to mention electrical, water, sewer, etc. They don't have to build a flyover and dedicated road, they could just deploy a fleet of luxury buses on Universal Blvd. Imagine if the windows used Hogwarts Express technology to put on a ten minute show or attraction/hotel previews. Who needs a monorail?

The existence of this plot of land is the biggest competitive threat to WDW since the 1960s ... biggest threat ever in other words. Everything else that's happened in Orlando until now has been an add-on competing for leftover scraps of people's time and cash. Universal, Seaworld, Legoland, Wet and Wild, you name it.

Assuming the new parks hit the right emotional notes, the question really is going to be, kids, where do you want to go this year?

Besides the effect on theme park competition that this implies, I imagine it will have a big effect on how Disney uses the land in between its theme parks. You may see a wall of condos around not just Seven Seas but Bay Lake as well. That's if that the credit bubble lasts. Failing that, Disney will actually have to build new and innovative theme park rides ... a lot of them ... and implement competitive prices in order to keep their market share in the healthy zone.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Uni now owns what is effectively a footprint as big as WDW, without having to own and run an entire municipality. They don't control the roads between their two properties 100% but they don't have to build and maintain them 100% either. They've got plenty of fellow taxpayers to help with that. Not to mention electrical, water, sewer, etc. They don't have to build a flyover and dedicated road, they could just deploy a fleet of luxury buses on Universal Blvd. Imagine if the windows used Hogwarts Express technology to put on a ten minute show or attraction/hotel previews. Who needs a monorail?

The existence of this plot of land is the biggest competitive threat to WDW since the 1960s ... biggest threat ever in other words. Everything else that's happened in Orlando until now has been an add-on competing for leftover scraps of people's time and cash. Universal, Seaworld, Legoland, Wet and Wild, you name it.

Assuming the new parks hit the right emotional notes, the question really is going to be, kids, where do you want to go this year?

Besides the effect on theme park competition that this implies, I imagine it will have a big effect on how Disney uses the land in between its theme parks. You may see a wall of condos around not just Seven Seas but Bay Lake as well. That's if that the credit bubble lasts. Failing that, Disney will actually have to build new and innovative theme park rides ... a lot of them ... and implement competitive prices in order to keep their market share in the healthy zone.

Let's hope you are correct. It's good for me and bad for public employee investment funds...

Anyone think Iger is regretting his contract extension?...things are NOT Going very well for them over the last year or two...even the force can't save them.

Time to jump out of the plane for him

 

[Josh Hendy]

On the one hand, the economic conflagration which is effecting Disney will also affect Comcast, and less cheap credit for condos also means less credit available for building theme parks. So the new land might sit there empty for longer than it takes rteetz to raise a family and retire.

On the other hand, when a credit bubble comes crashing to an end it means that a dollar is really worth a dollar. People spend and invest money wisely because it turns out that you can't manufacture wealth out of thin air through a pyramid of debt after all. Therefore if theme parks with great rides at a reasonable cost is what the public really wants to spend it's hard-earned disposable income on, that's just what will get built.