Ireland / River Cruise

[Cousin Orville]

I'm signed up for China next summer, but flying to Budapest this summer was rough, and I started to talk myself out of it. So I need to remember what makes these exotic trips special. Thanks!

As I just said above, I really was kind of sick & exhausted after the flight to Budapest, and I started talking myself out of the China trip. I think it was both the flight time, and the *differentness* of China. But you've reminded me that it's just that differentness that makes these trips special. That the exotic trips are even more worth the expense and the time because it *is* so different from what I've done & experienced before. Thanks to both you & acndis. I'm still totally dreading the flights, but I'll bite the bullet and manage somehow, because the experience there will be so worth it. Thanks!

Sorry for hijacking this thread!

Sayhello

China really is worth trying. And it has the added bonus of having more bucket list items than any other adventure IMO (Forbidden City, The Wall (The Chinese not Trump's - sorry bad joke), Pandas, Li River (for me), The Bund and Pudong AT NIGHT (MUST WALK THE BUND AT NIGHT AFTER DINNER - NOT AN ORGANIZED ACTIVITY), the Terra-cotta Warriors, HK Harbor, and 2 PARKS!. It's really nuts how many big ticket items you see on this adventure. The Hotels are awesome. The food is... awesome at times (better than Australia, not as good as SE Asia). I hope you can try it.


Getting somewhat back on track, I think Wyoming would be great. I followed a family (from our China ABD) on fb do the Wyoming ABD and it looked like a lot of fun. We had a good time in Ireland, but we preferred to go their without children. Between Dromoland and the pubs, it just worked better for us as a couples trip.

 

[BluesTraveler]

@ sayhello - I think we all get amnesia when it comes to jet lag and therefore it catches us by surprise every time. Alaska was only 4 hours, but it really hit me the first couple days there. Could you plan to give yourself even one more additional day in China on the front end to adjust/recover (so maybe 2 full days total)? If you are able to take the pressure off yourself to hit the ground running, it may make a difference. Especially if you set your expectations for those days really low and remind yourself they're for preparing for your trip.

 

[sayhello]

@ sayhello - I think we all get amnesia when it comes to jet lag and therefore it catches us by surprise every time. Alaska was only 4 hours, but it really hit me the first couple days there. Could you plan to give yourself even one more additional day in China on the front end to adjust/recover (so maybe 2 full days total)? If you are able to take the pressure off yourself to hit the ground running, it may make a difference. Especially if you set your expectations for those days really low and remind yourself they're for preparing for your trip.

That's actually a really good idea. I'll have to look into it. I think I might have to book it myself, because the pre-days were pretty pricey through ABD. But it's definitely something to consider!

Sayhello

 

[RSM]

I've been to China and SE Asia 50+ times, and for the most part the jet lag tends to be much worse coming back (I fly from Boston). Once you get a good sleep schedule (generally a day or two), I find it's not too bad. I know everyone is different, and your location and flight times will affect it, but most of the people I know are more affected by jet lag from China back to the states. Just some food for thought.

 

[sayhello]

I've been to China and SE Asia 50+ times, and for the most part the jet lag tends to be much worse coming back (I fly from Boston). Once you get a good sleep schedule (generally a day or two), I find it's not too bad. I know everyone is different, and your location and flight times will affect it, but most of the people I know are more affected by jet lag from China back to the states. Just some food for thought.

Which direction do you fly to China? East or west? Because I definitely have worse jetlag flying East than flying West. What airline do you recommend? Do you have a preferred route? I don't know anything about flying to Asia. All my international experience has been Europe or Israel.

Sayhello

 

[acndis]

Which direction do you fly to China? East or west? Because I definitely have worse jetlag flying East than flying West. What airline do you recommend? Do you have a preferred route? I don't know anything about flying to Asia. All my international experience has been Europe or Israel.

Sayhello

We were not jetlagged at all arriving in Ho Chi Minh. We had braced ourselves for pain and suffering. The flights were also not that bad. We flew ANA direct from Houston to Tokyo. We went coach (my husband is 6'5") but were pretty comfortable and had a great flight. ANA is TERRIFIC! The flight from Tokyo to Ho Chi Minh was another 6 hours and the plane was smaller. We were not as happy there but were fine. We arrived in Ho Chi Minh very late and went straight to bed. We all woke up at 4 am but felt fine. We did a whole day of touring and were pretty much on schedule from them on.

I have heard the trip to Asia is enough of a complete time change that you adjust more easily. It was SOOO much better than Europe. Trust me, you'll be fine!

 

[RSM]

Which direction do you fly to China? East or west? Because I definitely have worse jetlag flying East than flying West. What airline do you recommend? Do you have a preferred route? I don't know anything about flying to Asia. All my international experience has been Europe or Israel.

Sayhello

I think we are consistent. I usually fly either Boston to Newark to Hong Kong/Shanghai/Bangkok/Singapore or Boston to San Fran to one of the listed Asia countries (so flying west). Coming home it is generally Asia to San Fran/Newark to Boston. I generally fly United, but that is because of corporate rates and availability of flights. If I could, I would fly Singapore Airlines. In terms of routes, I usually base it on do I want to do a 5.5 hour flight to San Fran, then a 11.5 hour flight to say Honk Kong. Or would I rather do a 1 hour flight to Newark, then a 15 hour flight to Hong Kong. I think you are in the midwest, so your options may be similar but instead of using Newark, you would use Chicago.

 

[Calfan]

Just want to echo what the OPs have said, Sayhello, and strongly encourage you to stick with your China plan. It was such a fantastic experience. As Cousin Orville said, combining those bucket list sites with great activities is hard to beat. While we weren't with ABD on our recent trip to China, I thought the food was fantastic, and it is so interesting to experience a completely different culture. As far as jet lag, it really didn't bother me. I know your time change will be different, but we found the 15 hour time difference from California (where we started, even though we now live in Idaho) to China to be pretty easy to handle, and easier, I think, than that 8- or 9-hour time change to Europe. And all of mainland China (not sure about Hong Kong) is on one time zone, so you don't end up having to deal with time changes during the trip.

 

[sayhello]

I think we are consistent. I usually fly either Boston to Newark to Hong Kong/Shanghai/Bangkok/Singapore or Boston to San Fran to one of the listed Asia countries (so flying west). Coming home it is generally Asia to San Fran/Newark to Boston. I generally fly United, but that is because of corporate rates and availability of flights. If I could, I would fly Singapore Airlines. In terms of routes, I usually base it on do I want to do a 5.5 hour flight to San Fran, then a 11.5 hour flight to say Honk Kong. Or would I rather do a 1 hour flight to Newark, then a 15 hour flight to Hong Kong. I think you are in the midwest, so your options may be similar but instead of using Newark, you would use Chicago.

Thanks for the info! I need to start researching this. I'm in Ohio, so Chicago probably would be the best jump-off point! Thanks!

Just want to echo what the OPs have said, Sayhello, and strongly encourage you to stick with your China plan. It was such a fantastic experience. As Cousin Orville said, combining those bucket list sites with great activities is hard to beat. While we weren't with ABD on our recent trip to China, I thought the food was fantastic, and it is so interesting to experience a completely different culture. As far as jet lag, it really didn't bother me. I know your time change will be different, but we found the 15 hour time difference from California (where we started, even though we now live in Idaho) to China to be pretty easy to handle, and easier, I think, than that 8- or 9-hour time change to Europe. And all of mainland China (not sure about Hong Kong) is on one time zone, so you don't end up having to deal with time changes during the trip.

Thanks for the encouragement, Calfan! All one time zone on Mainland China? That's amazing! I'm going to have to talk to you about Shanghai Disney...

Sayhello

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I hear you sayhello! I've had a few second thoughts myself. Not so much about the initial travel--we are pretty used to dealing with Jetlag--but more because of the overall pace of the itinerary. There is so much moving about, which is great in terms of what you see, but I'm worried about all the interior travel days and early mornings mixed with not as much outdoor type of activity. It's easier for all of us to adjust when we are being active. We're going for it, but I may modify activities where I can if it's too much "listening" time. I wish we had more time to adjust but we are up against DD's high school graduation. The cost of pre-nights is crazy. We are doing one pre an done post and I think it's around $2000.

 

[sayhello]

I hear you sayhello! I've had a few second thoughts myself. Not so much about the initial travel--we are pretty used to dealing with Jetlag--but more because of the overall pace of the itinerary. There is so much moving about, which is great in terms of what you see, but I'm worried about all the interior travel days and early mornings mixed with not as much outdoor type of activity. It's easier for all of us to adjust when we are being active. We're going for it, but I may modify activities where I can if it's too much "listening" time. I wish we had more time to adjust but we are up against DD's high school graduation. The cost of pre-nights is crazy. We are doing one pre an done post and I think it's around $2000.

I know! I'm doing one pre & one post, and it's $1100. I don't know if I can do it cheaper, and having ABD handle the logistics is definitely a plus. I'm definitely torn.

All the moving around is definitely also rough, but China is just so big, I don't see how you can get away from that. The river cruise was definitely amazing when it came to that!

Sayhello

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I know! I'm doing one pre & one post, and it's $1100. I don't know if I can do it cheaper, and having ABD handle the logistics is definitely a plus. I'm definitely torn.

All the moving around is definitely also rough, but China is just so big, I don't see how you can get away from that. The river cruise was definitely amazing when it came to that!

Sayhello

Yep, that sounds right x 2 for our family of four. I totally agree about having them handle the logistics--there's also the language barrier that makes me torn. Yes, that is one big benefit of a cruise!

 

[Cousin Orville]

Is that the price through ABD or arranging the pre/post night rooms on your own at the same hotel? I'd book the same hotel on your own if it's not too crazy expensive and get the ABD transfer. I can't remember what the rules are regarding post nights booked on your own.

 

[Calfan]

Thanks for the encouragement, Calfan! All one time zone on Mainland China? That's amazing! I'm going to have to talk to you about Shanghai Disney...

Sayhello

Happy to give you any info I can about Shanghai Disney

 

[Cousin Orville]

I wouldn't be concerned about the language barrier in HK. I think you've got some flexibility there if you were to arrange your own pre nights. It's very different from Mainland China.

In Shanghai, I'd probably feel most comfortable with some transfer, either arranged on my own or through ABD. But even there it's probably not a big deal. It's in Beijing and the rest of China that the language barrier really hits you.

 

[*WDW*Groupie*]

Sayhello, the worst part of jet lag in China for us was waking up in the middle of the night for the first few days (I guess our bodies thought it was time to get up), but we went right back to sleep. The first few mornings we were up and ready by 6:30am!

If you can stay up the first night until 9 or 10pm you should be fine. Once we checked into the Waldorf Astoria we showered, changed and went out to dinner. When we came back I unpacked and played around a bit with the internet (be sure to get a VPN before you go, you will most likely need it in Beijing; HK and Shanghai aren't too bad). The next morning we had a full day tour booked and we were both fine.

WRT to airlines, we flew direct Air Canada from Toronto to Beijing in their pods. I slept 6.5 hours on the plane (a record for me). I always change into my pajamas, wash my face, brush my teeth and 'get ready for bed' so my brain believes it is actually bedtime. Sounds silly, but it works. When I wake up I do the same in reverse.

Our flight from HK to Shanghai (on our own after ABD ended) was with Hong Kong Airlines and I LOVED LOVED LOVED it. Their first class seats have massaging seats! Service was amazing and the staff were very friendly. I would recommend looking into them if you can.

I wouldn't let the transfer through ABD be a determining factor when booking a pre or post night. We had to change our outbound flight (due to the category 5 typhoon that was going to be crossing our flight path) and ABD basically said "you are on your own with the transfer to the airport". As a matter of fact, when I called ABD and asked them for help with arrangements due to the magnitude of the storm, they said YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK - YOUR TRIP IS OVER (I did book our post-night with them and never ended up getting the transfer because they said 10 hours wasn't enough time to let the car service know; ditto for breakfast-in-a-box even though the front desk provided us with one with a half hour notice). Ugh. You can probably tell this left a VERY sour taste in my mouth. Thank goodness for AmEx Platinum travel (they booked our outgoing flights). After 3 hours on the phone with them they were able to reschedule our flight to a much earlier one on a different airline with no change fee. The concierge at the Peninsula was also extremely helpful (I could rave forever about the amazing concierge at that hotel). I lost a lot of respect for ABD after that experience (nothing like being hung out to dry in a foreign country with a typhoon bearing down on your flight path).

You are going to LOVE Shanghai Disney. If you are going to be there on a weekend I would suggest thinking about the VIP guide. We were there on a Sunday. The park tickets were sold out weeks in advance; by 10:30am the FP wait for Tron was 45 minutes. We waited in the Soarin' FP line for 35 minutes with our private guide (but as a result of the wait [over 30 minutes] we got to go on Tron without waiting in the FP line). Also our guide said the VIP guides are booked solid through to the end of October and we were there in June. Also if you do the VIP guide be sure to book early in the day as you must use the FP line if the ride has one; if it doesn't then you go in the exit; the popular rides that don't have FP were Jet Packs and Pirates. I believe the rest had FPs, so you have to get in that line.

 

[RSM]

Sayhello--as the OP says, don't let transfers dictate your decision. From HK or Shanghai public taxis are readily available. The cost from the Hong Kong airport to Kowloon or the island is about $30-40 usd. From Pudong to Shanghai city is about $40-50 USD. Obviously if you wanted to take a train or bus it would be much less expensive, but taxis are pretty reasonable and very well regulated in Asia. The taxi drivers tend to look at it as a career and my experience has been that they take alot of pride in their job.

 

[sayhello]

Is that the price through ABD or arranging the pre/post night rooms on your own at the same hotel? I'd book the same hotel on your own if it's not too crazy expensive and get the ABD transfer. I can't remember what the rules are regarding post nights booked on your own.

That's the price through ABD. Hmmm, looks like rack rate is $950 if I book it myself ($500 for Hong Kong & $450 for Shanghai). I could save $150, but would have to do my own transfer after the ABD (they currently will include getting you to the hotel the ABD starts in if you book by yourself, but they don't include post-trip transfers unless you book that through them.)

Sayhello

 

[sayhello]

Happy to give you any info I can about Shanghai Disney

You'll be hearing from me! Thanks!

I wouldn't be concerned about the language barrier in HK. I think you've got some flexibility there if you were to arrange your own pre nights. It's very different from Mainland China.

In Shanghai, I'd probably feel most comfortable with some transfer, either arranged on my own or through ABD. But even there it's probably not a big deal. It's in Beijing and the rest of China that the language barrier really hits you.

I could get the transfer through ABD in HK if I book the Peninsula. It's Shanghai I'd have to worry about. We'll see... I'll have to keep an eye on the hotel rates. Thanks!

Sayhello, the worst part of jet lag in China for us was waking up in the middle of the night for the first few days (I guess our bodies thought it was time to get up), but we went right back to sleep. The first few mornings we were up and ready by 6:30am!

If you can stay up the first night until 9 or 10pm you should be fine. Once we checked into the Waldorf Astoria we showered, changed and went out to dinner. When we came back I unpacked and played around a bit with the internet (be sure to get a VPN before you go, you will most likely need it in Beijing; HK and Shanghai aren't too bad). The next morning we had a full day tour booked and we were both fine.

I always try to stay up as late as possible (I managed 10:30pm in Budapest!) It definitely helps. I try to go out & walk, because that helps, too. I'll definitely need to look into this VPN thing.

WRT to airlines, we flew direct Air Canada from Toronto to Beijing in their pods. I slept 6.5 hours on the plane (a record for me). I always change into my pajamas, wash my face, brush my teeth and 'get ready for bed' so my brain believes it is actually bedtime. Sounds silly, but it works. When I wake up I do the same in reverse.

Our flight from HK to Shanghai (on our own after ABD ended) was with Hong Kong Airlines and I LOVED LOVED LOVED it. Their first class seats have massaging seats! Service was amazing and the staff were very friendly. I would recommend looking into them if you can.

In their pods? Sounds nice, but EXPENSIVE. Did you use miles, or do you recall how much something like that cost?

I wouldn't let the transfer through ABD be a determining factor when booking a pre or post night. We had to change our outbound flight (due to the category 5 typhoon that was going to be crossing our flight path) and ABD basically said "you are on your own with the transfer to the airport". As a matter of fact, when I called ABD and asked them for help with arrangements due to the magnitude of the storm, they said YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK - YOUR TRIP IS OVER (I did book our post-night with them and never ended up getting the transfer because they said 10 hours wasn't enough time to let the car service know; ditto for breakfast-in-a-box even though the front desk provided us with one with a half hour notice). Ugh. You can probably tell this left a VERY sour taste in my mouth. Thank goodness for AmEx Platinum travel (they booked our outgoing flights). After 3 hours on the phone with them they were able to reschedule our flight to a much earlier one on a different airline with no change fee. The concierge at the Peninsula was also extremely helpful (I could rave forever about the amazing concierge at that hotel). I lost a lot of respect for ABD after that experience (nothing like being hung out to dry in a foreign country with a typhoon bearing down on your flight path).

That's *awful* about them not helping you! I can't imagine what made them think they weren't still responsible for you. That's scary!

You are going to LOVE Shanghai Disney. If you are going to be there on a weekend I would suggest thinking about the VIP guide. We were there on a Sunday. The park tickets were sold out weeks in advance; by 10:30am the FP wait for Tron was 45 minutes. We waited in the Soarin' FP line for 35 minutes with our private guide (but as a result of the wait [over 30 minutes] we got to go on Tron without waiting in the FP line). Also our guide said the VIP guides are booked solid through to the end of October and we were there in June. Also if you do the VIP guide be sure to book early in the day as you must use the FP line if the ride has one; if it doesn't then you go in the exit; the popular rides that don't have FP were Jet Packs and Pirates. I believe the rest had FPs, so you have to get in that line.

I definitely plan to look into the VIP guides. I just won't have that much time there, and want to see & do as much as I can. And I've been reading things about the crowds there... It should be a Thursday.

Sayhello--as the OP says, don't let transfers dictate your decision. From HK or Shanghai public taxis are readily available. The cost from the Hong Kong airport to Kowloon or the island is about $30-40 usd. From Pudong to Shanghai city is about $40-50 USD. Obviously if you wanted to take a train or bus it would be much less expensive, but taxis are pretty reasonable and very well regulated in Asia. The taxi drivers tend to look at it as a career and my experience has been that they take alot of pride in their job.

It's good to know the taxis are reliable. That's often not the case. Thanks, RSM.

Sayhello

 

[*WDW*Groupie*]

You'll be hearing from me! Thanks!

I could get the transfer through ABD in HK if I book the Peninsula. It's Shanghai I'd have to worry about. We'll see... I'll have to keep an eye on the hotel rates. Thanks!

I always try to stay up as late as possible (I managed 10:30pm in Budapest!) It definitely helps. I try to go out & walk, because that helps, too. I'll definitely need to look into this VPN thing.

In their pods? Sounds nice, but EXPENSIVE. Did you use miles, or do you recall how much something like that cost?

That's *awful* about them not helping you! I can't imagine what made them think they weren't still responsible for you. That's scary!

Sayhello

We used miles. It's one of the perks of my husband being on the road 200 or so days a year. However I would pay cash if we didn't have the points. I have found that due to my height (and very long legs) I am not comfortable in economy class seats for any longer than 3 hours. As an aside I'm trying to book a Tanzanian safari next year after our Rhine River cruise (there is a direct flight on KLM from Amsterdam to Kilimanjaro once a day) and the only way I'll do it is in Business Class. If I can't make it work then we won't go. I'm currently working on the logistics (tour operators are A&K, Nat Geo & Tauck Bridges -- all about equal except A&K has superior accommodations and is 2 days shorter; Nat Geo uses 'luxury' tents that don't have running water and Tauck is somewhere in the middle of the two).