Discussion in 'Community Board' started by IvyandLace, Apr 2, 2013.
The emergency holy water is on its way!
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Sure, I mean my finding it odd is subjective
I suppose I should say thank you for that...
I think you express yourself really well--and come across sounding pretty much like a native speaker. I am always surprised when I look and realize who is posting an know you are working in a second language, because you are so fluent
I didn't find it odd PP would treat it as a secular holiday. In fact, that's how it is at my house. The only part I found odd was that PP would object to someone else seeing it differently given that it IS traditionally a religious holiday.
If you're celebrating a holiday that ties into a religion (any religion), you kind of have to be prepared for the chance someone will want to view it as a religious holiday - even someone who's shown no prior interest in doing so
Now, if that someone makes a jerk of themselves in the process (which appears to be the case here) that's a whole different issue there
ITA. Whether it is religion, beliefs, or customs, my kids have been raised to accept others and respect different choices. This came up recently as DS10found out the girl he likes is atheist. For him, it wasn't a big deal, just a "huh" moment.
We talked about how at this point, most kids believe what they have been raised in- ie. if we were Jewish, he'd have a different view of Jesus, etc. Kids may grow up to believe the same or change their views. It was good for him to see different beliefs. DH was raised in a different religion but changed as an adult.
DD has a family member on my ex's side with a same sex partner and she is just exposed to another kind of loving relationship.
As far as visiting others, we just respect the house rules and they know to ask one of us if they are unsure of anything.
If it weren't for the rules, I would love to have a discussion sometime about secular vs. religious holidays, and whether us Christians would like it better if our holidays were treated more like Muslim or Jewish holidays in the US. I guess Pagans would feel the same way as well, since Christmas falls during old Roman holiday and Easter may be named for a Pagan god, along with the conflict between Sanheim and All Hallow's Eve.
Alas, that will not happen...
I watch too many movies.
In the UK, Easter is a four day weekend with Good Friday and Easter Monday being public holidays. That makes it a great opportunity for families to get together, especially those who have to come some distance.
We had ten family members here at some point over the long weekend and had a fantastic time.
None of it had any religious content or significance whatsoever.
I actually assumed it had something to do with gay people. OP definitely did a hit and run on this
I confess that I am curious about what you mean about having your holidays treated like Jewish or Muslim holidays.
I can tell you that my own family celebrates the following, traditionally religious holidays in a secular sort of way (and always including learning or discussing the history of the religious celebration and what the day means to those who are a part of the particular religion--I think it is a lovely way to teach my children about a variety of religious beliefs):
First night of Chanukah
First night of Ramadan
Eid Al-fitr (last night of Ramadan)
All Saints Day
St Nicholas Day
We also celebrate a variety of cultural types of holidays which do not have a much of a religious history overall, like Fat Tuesday (but yes we talk about how it related to Ash Wednesday and Lent), Chinese New Year, etc.
It is a four day weekend here in Germany too We went up to Belgium and Holland and spent one day at an awesome amusement park (bundled up like skiers ), had an egg hunt in our rental house and swam at an indoor water park on Easter.
I thought that was the most likely issue too, based on the OP. But we weren't given much information were we?
OK, well I never heard any anyone having a secular celebration for Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Ramadan, Chinese New Year, so that's new to me.
But you certainly don't see a Ramadan Sale at Wal-Mart.
Treading lightly & hoping to have this discussion before this thread gets closed!
Why do you choose to celebrate those specific holidays in your family? Is it because you have family members who are adherents to those particular religions?? I only ask because I think it's an interesting mix of faiths & I personally strive to incorporate more world faiths into our family & traditions as a way of exposing our kids to the various belief systems out there in the hopes that they can make an educated choice (even if that choice is to not choose, like DH & I have decided) once they're of an age and maturity level to do so.
Wow! That's what I get for posting a thread topic and then being away from the boards for over 24 hours, huh?
The whole "religion" topic is what caused me to spend a few days phrasing my question before I even bothered to post. I REALLY did not want to veer off into where the thread derailed which is one reason I did not leave any specific examples with my original post.
That being said, I totally get that everyone has differing values and that it is healthy for kids to be exposed to differences in order to open dialogue as to what their beliefs/values are or should be. Totally get it. However, I wasn't really referring to that as much as this: Do you have certain things that you DO not compromise on when your kids are at family member's homes? What are the "no way, no how" areas? (I understand that this will be different for everyone.) If you do have these areas, HOW do you handle them? Do you reference the "rules" prior to the family get-together or do you find that addressing them as they come up works better? I can see problems with both-I do not want my daughter to offend the host(s) by stating something that might appear to be "judging" them nor do I want her to be exposed to things that we do not believe in.
Do you believe that consistency in your "family rules" outweighs the fact that you are together with family you do not see very often?
For example...My husbands' side of the family is very volatile and tends to be politically minded with every single one of the members of his family having a totally different political lean. This is ALWAYS discussed very heatedly at every get-together, and it is not pretty or constructive. Add to that fact that there is often heavy drinking and horribly offensive language being batted around in general...well, it makes me concerned about putting my daughter in that kind of environment...even for a short amount of time.
A totally different example from my side of the family: both of my sisters (one older, one younger) have preschool age kids. This past Christmas my older sister expressed concern about coming for Christmas dinner at my younger sister's house because my younger sister's daughter is not expected to sit at the table like her own children are. My niece has never been a good eater and so is often allowed to get down to play while we are eating. This was concerning to my older sister who said that this was a bad example to her own kids as they would rather be playing with their cousin instead of having to follow "the family rules" at the dinner.
As you can see, neither of these examples deals with religion so I hope we can steer the topic back on course.
I remember when I joined these boards and these discussions were still allowed. Holidays were a lot of fun and I received many messages of thanks for helping explain the pagan backgrounds and historical content behind them. Many did not know anything but the single religious backgrounds to them. I would say the majority of posters really enjoyed learning more about the background.
I will respect the beliefs of those whom home I am visiting. That said, there are some things that I will not bend on and I would most likely remove myself from any situation dealing with it.
However, I would also expect respect from the other person not to push their beliefs down my throat or to make derogatory comments about my beliefs. The respect needs to go both ways.
True about the sales--for whatever reason most religious celebrations for things not Christian don't seem to have as big of a commercial component as many Christian holidays do (but not all--you never see a "day of the immaculate conception sale or a Ascension Thursday sale either ). And of course, simply the fact that Christianity is the most common religion in the US drives that as well.
As far as having never heard of secular celebrations for non Christian hoidays I don't know what to tell you there. We know plenty of people who have them.
You picked some pretty somber holidays, "celebrating" Yom Kippur or Ramadan would be a little like "celebrating" Ash Wednesday in terms of tone.
Also, you've never heard of anyone going to a Chinese New Year parade, even though they're not Buddhist, or giving their kids Hanukkah gifts, or hosting a Seder, even though they don't hold religious beliefs? Both are really common here. I assume that parents from Muslim cultures would similarly keep Eid traditions for their kids.
Our Christian church does a Seder every few years hosted by a Messianic Jewish rabbi, but I never heard of non-Jews giving Hanukkah gifts. As for the Chinese New Year parade, I guess if I live'd in a city that HAS a Chinese New Year parade, I could see about going to one.
I have just seen the OP come back and do not want to derail further--but I'll PM you in a minute. I will say that I was raised agnostic, and still am, and DH was raised Catholic and still is but only loosely. We have close friends of varying faiths though.
Okay, in your examples:
So long as there was no fear for safety, I would still go to visit family and let the political discussion happen and then afterwards talk with my kids about how it makes me sad that the family cannot debate their beliefs without being respectful of one another and how their use of bad language bothers me and is not the best way to convey a point.
For the second, I am a fan of "every family has different rules, what your cousins or friends or whoever do is not how I decide what is okay for you." All 5 cousins are within 3 1/2 years of each other in our family. We ALL have things we allow our kids to do that the other cousins cannot. I would never not get together with family just because of that. I'd tell my kids that they need to sit at the table as always if that is what I wanted. Or, I might tell them that at aunt so and so's house, and ONLY there they may leave the table when their cousin does and play nicely with her.
Separate names with a comma.