Discussion in 'Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies' started by PrettyFlower2, Apr 24, 2013.
edited to delete
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EMH is the controversial Misconception I wanted to talk about, and also, how lines are suppose to get shorter (not).
I will post more about both of these later, because they will be lengthy.
but I just wanted to say, I dont think FP+ replacing EMH is going to be better for us. I dont know if it will be worse. I just think that EMH is the antithis of what disney really wants out of FP+, and that is crowd control.
The PR people will wrap it up in a pretty bow, and try to sell it.
So, just know that I dont think FP+ SHOULD replace EMH, I just think that it will. And, I understand the pain it will cause for many who love EMH. Back on my very first lengthy post, I said this new system will be a game changer, and in part, I said this because of what I see as the slow death of EMH.
But, I could be totally wrong. I will present what I consider the facts, and you guys can dissect it. This is just speculation on my part.
I will be back in a few hours!
If FP+ replaces EMH, it will affect a lot more people than just DISboard members. Vast numbers of onsite guests take advantage of this perk each year. Anything that replaces it will either be perceived as an improvement or a negative. FP+ will need a proven track record and enjoy a highly positive perception by guests to avoid the latter. I think it won't just be DISboard members who cry "foul" if they replace EMH with an offering that is considered by the masses to be inferior to the old perk.
i'm probably missing something obvious here, but i keep seeing the phrase "valid ticket" in order to prebook. I also keep reading that it could be 60 days out for prebooking. What constitutes a valid ticket? if i book a package at WDW, currently i get my tickets on my KTTW card at check in. so does this mean there will be a change in ticketing as well? like i said, i'm probably missings something obvious here.
Even though you don't have a physical ticket in hand, you have already purchased your ticket when you book. So I'm pretty sure they would consider you to have a "valid ticket" at that time.
ok, so that makes sense to me. then those who stay offsite or are locals would have to purchase park tickets in advance in order to prebook FP+ in advance?
Presumably. Which is basically a big rude gesture to everyone from international markets, but I digress.
'Valid ticket' means a ticket to get into WDW. Magic Your Way as they so confusingly call it.
This is in response to Rileygirl's thoughts
I think the predominant theme in your posts is that FP+ has two objectives. However, they are mutually competing:
1. Incentive to stay onsite
2. Lure to keep off-site guests to go to Disney each day, and not get distracted by Seaworld bilboards (maybe I'd go to Seaworld if I didn't have FP+ scheduled for each day)
In order for #1 to be of value, it must be much better than off-site guests can get with FP+. But, then the offsite won't be captivated to only do Disney
Perhaps there would be a way that these FP+ options aren't actually ACTIVE in the system until your RFID tells the park you there? I hope that makes sense, lol.
Not sure why...they can order tickets and book packages just like anyone else as far as I know.
Magic Your Way is a particular class of ticket, and currently the most common one as it applies to most everyone. But there are a bunch of different classes of tickets that aren't MYW tickets - Annual Passes, YES, Conference, Ultimate (UK), etc...
The T&C doesn't specify anything about other classes of tickets currently. They do say that MYW ticket holders will get the 60 day window. Others could potentially get more or less. It remains to be seen.
The way it looks to be set up, all you will need is a valid ticket associated with your profile. It doesn't need to be a physical ticket in your hand. But if you purchased a physical ticket, there will (presumably, it doesn't exist yet) a way to enter the ticket ID into the web site to get it associated.
I'm predicting that those who have a package associated with their profiles will automatically have the ticket associated as well for the purposes of FP+. Those ordering tickets online for will-call pickup likewise.
The problem is, I could enter the park with just a few minutes before my FP+ expires, and still use it. They shouldn't give it away just because I haven't entered the park before some arbitrary time.
I'm thinking Disney is doing the same old betting that there will be unused FP+s, which will benefit the standby line...
Ah, ok, I forgot that they class the other tickets as different versions. I'm sure you'll get access with all of them, though there might be limits on AP usage of FP+.
And yes, even staying offsite I could order tickets direct from Disney and prebook fastpasses 60 days in advance. However, the UK price for tickets is ridiculous, equivalent to almost $400 each (and it includes water parks, which we don't need or want), and we have to save everything we can. Unless you can get US pricing in the UK, but I wouldn't have thought so. I wouldnt mind it if it was only a little more, but it's getting on for $400 more for our family of 4.
Very interesting thoughts and opinions here.
I hope that these changes improve, or at least maintain, our vacation experience. I fear, after returning from our recent 10 day stay, that it won't be the case. I felt less "magic" this trip from the CMs. The parks seemed overcrowded and stand by lines were quite long most if the time. I left feeling like, for the first time, our vacation was not worth what we spent on it. I hope that reports back, after this goes live, will change my perspective for the better. If not, there is a lot of DCL in my future.
A thought I just had...seems to me that the new system is geared toward the more casual Wdw guest, vs the seasoned pros. How will that change the numbers for those who have been dedicated to Wdw all these years. Will it affect the DVC bottom line? What about the AP profits?
But if they aren't active at what point can Disney "assume" you will not be in the park for your FP+?? My theory is Disney would not be able to give your FP+ away until only a minute or 2 before it expires if you aren't in the park. This would help the SB line but it wouldn't help more people get FP+s for that ride.
What remains to be seen is how will Disney prevent someone like me with a 10 NE ticket and staying off-site from booking FP+s for a full week when I know full well that we will only be visiting for 3 days this year but at 60 days out, I may not fully know which parks I will be going to. So I book FP+s at HS for TSM for 3 different day just in case we decide to go to HS on one of those days instead of another.
Or an AP holder, which they have said will not be left out, from make FP+s at TSM for a holiday weekend on the off chance their family may be able to go to Disney.
Everytime someone figures something out, there is a different path to go down! There just seems to be so many different holes in the plan. I am glad it is people smarter than I trying to figure out this out. To me the current system didn't seem to have so many different things to go wrong.
That's because it wasn't so complicated. Unfortunately, the more things you add to a system the more it becomes likely to run into a hiccup.
If companies like Sony can lose access to their site for hours and hours with all their money and the fact they are in the tech game themselves, I forsee some down time somewhere. No system is 100% foolproof, every IT system I can think of has had at least an hour of downtime.
No way will this be perfect 100% of the time. It's not possible when dealing with IT. There will always be glitches and bugs, till they get them fixed. How long that will take... who knows.
This is why I think they should really have been further along with testing by now. If they are thinking of doing the first major tests in summer months, I hope they have a damn good team running their website and app. No matter how you feel about the final result, they should be testing by now.
Can you imagine only starting any large scale tests in July and August? The system could collapse under the weight, and any bugs will be magnified over a quieter time. I mean, there is no real quiet time anymore, but at least try and test before the busiest times. It's like testing a new commuter plane for the first time by loading it with 300 passengers and seeing what happens.
We've had some really small scale tests, but nothing that would seem to give enough raw data to extrapolate the effects the full system might have.
Speculating a little more wildly than usual here, but it seems that there would have to be an arbitrary time (e.g., 30 minutes prior to your FP+ reservation time) by which your ticket would have to be registered at the turnstile or else you lose your FP+. Then they can send out texts announcing that FP+s have just opened up for [insert attraction] and the first people to snag them with their smartphones can then take advantage of them.
True. If I have a 10-day ticket, they don't know that I have no intention of using all 10 days on this visit. Especially if I were staying offsite. I wonder if it would raise red flags, though, if I am staying onsite for 4 nights. Of course, Disney still doesn't know if I'm doing a split stay (onsite and offsite), so I COULD still be planning to use all 10 days. They just have no way of knowing this.
I want to reply to everyone's comments, there are some great thoughts and questions out there! I dont multiquote usually, because I find it too hard to do, so I am going to make several quick posts. Hope that is ok. I am going to work backwards a bit, ie. most recent posts first, but there is some great stuff back a couple of pages that I also want to get to.
Mom2Mickeyfan, some great points here!
Lets talk about that NE ticket. A couple of months ago, there was a very strong rumour about the NE option going the way of the dodo bird. It was discussed very hotly. I dont think Disney has come out with the new ticket price and structure yet, but its coming soon.
I think your point of system abuse has already been considered by Disney, and this could be a contributing factor to the demise of the NE option (amoungst other things) if that happens.
Also, your point regarding the AP user: I think Disney IS concerned about this, hence the rule of 21 fp per quarter. It will limit that somewhat, but it in itself if very problematic for ap users who like to come for 2 or three weeks at a time, and only really have 1 weeks worth of fp. (unless this rule has been modified lately).
But, yes, lots of logistical problems for sure!
An interesting comment regarding AP users and DVC people. I think Disney is VERY worried about the reception of this new system, because (I THINK) that it IS the Disney Vetran's experience that is going to go down, and the bell curve people's experience is going to go up
I also think that Disney was so concerned about this, that they presold a large number of heavily discounted AP's to DVCers in the fall of last year, for an excellent deal. Many took the bait. Now the new system is close to getting unveiled, and there are many who are nervous and unhappy about it. Good thing Disney sold them that non refundable ticket in oct- nov last year!
My thinking is really in line with your thinking. I want to address your concern about EMH and whether FP+ perk will be percieved or of actual value.
I say both. To begin with, it will be of percieved value to the uneducated masses: Hey, HM fast pass at 9:30 am! Cool!
However, when everyone gets 'online' (well, if everyone gets online) then that 9:30am fast pass will be of huge value.
This is going to be both carrot and stick. Nasty standby lines from early in the morning til late at night, at least what we would consider nasty, which Im going to say 20 minutes or more.
So eventually, I think we will all covet our fast passes. That is my speculation on this matter.
Most companies are not thinking long term - which is part of a much bigger problem - short sightedness. Most companies are looking for profits today and this is mostly because it is what is demanded due to shareholders. Shareholders want Disney to make money now - so Disney has to respond to these shareholders and show them how they are making money now.
Customer satisfaction as a whole is important because a happy customer comes back - educated or not. If a Customer comes back, or new Customers are encouraged, by whatever means needed, to spend the majority of their time in WDW - shareholders will be pleased because the company makes money. But it better not take 10 years. It needs to happen now...not cause I say so, but because most large companies worry about shareholders happiness....and shareholders are notoriously shortsighted.
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