DVC resale changes coming!?!

[Sammie]

Except now, if you as a BLT owner couldn't book at 7 months, you could book elsewhere. Under the alleged proposal, you could not.

Ok now even more confused, Wasn't Doug talking about direct buyers booking at their home resort at 7 months.

Basically Missyrose has pretty much summed it up. If this comes to pass basically DVC wants to make sure that resale purchasers are not buying points that are selling for much less than what Grand Floridian and more than likely Polynesian will sell for.

They are after all a business that only makes money with new direct sales. It is their only income. In order for them to keep expanding they have to have revenue and they don't get that from a resale.

If I could buy a brand new car for the price of a used car at a used car lot, of course I would never go to the dealer and buy a new car. I do agree with Doug that removing all perks from resale purchases seems like a better place to start, especially the discount on passes, etc.

 

[bighoo93]

How about this proposal, that could hypothetically be introduced at the same time as the GF villas go on sale:

1) Points purchased directly from DVC have the right to reserve at the home resort at the 11-month window, and at any other current or future DVC resorts at the 7 month window.

2) Points purchased by resale have the right to reserve at the home resort at the 11 month window, and at any DVC resorts developed prior to GF Villas at the 7 month window, but not including GF villas or any subsequent DVC resorts.

2a) Resale DVC points may be used at any subsequently developed DVC resort beginning X years (7? 10?) after opening.

This would be generalized so it could hold going forward, so that when you buy resale points, you get the right to reserve at your home resort, plus any of the "older" resorts, but not at the newer, premium ones that DVC is selling direct. I'm sure I haven't accounted for all sorts of scenarios, but I wonder if the general idea could be tweaked to work.

To me, this would add substantial value to buying points direct, without taking any value away from those who have bought (or would buy) via resale. You still can try to reserve at every resort that you were able to at the time you bought your points, not only your home resort. But direct points have greater flexibility and privilege for newly-developed resorts.

Again, without thinking about it much, I feel like this would tempt me toward buying direct. I'm not sure I would have, but it would be a real consideration. And yet if I didn't, I wouldn't feel like Disney was pissing on its existing customers either. Anyway, who knows what they might do, I was just thinking about something that would add value and entice people to buy direct.

 

[Sammie]

How about this proposal, that could hypothetically be introduced at the same time as the GF villas go on sale:

1) Points purchased directly from DVC have the right to reserve at the home resort at the 11-month window, and at any other current or future DVC resorts at the 7 month window.

2) Points purchased by resale have the right to reserve at the home resort at the 11 month window, and at any DVC resorts developed prior to GF Villas, but not including GF villas or any subsequent DVC resorts.

2a) Resale DVC points may be used at any subsequently developed DVC resort beginning X years (7? 10?) after opening.

This would be generalized so it could hold going forward, so that when you buy resale points, you get the right to reserve at your home resort, plus any of the "older" resorts, but not at the newer, premium ones that DVC is selling direct. I'm sure I haven't accounted for all sorts of scenarios, but I wonder if the general idea could be tweaked to work.

To me, this would add substantial value to buying points direct, without taking any value away from those who have bought (or would buy) via resale. You still can try to reserve at every resort that you were able to at the time you bought your points, not only your home resort. But direct points have greater flexibility and privilege for newly-developed resorts.

Again, without thinking about it much, I feel like this would tempt me toward buying direct. I'm not sure I would have, but it would be a real consideration. And yet if I didn't, I wouldn't feel like Disney was pissing on its existing customers either. Anyway, who knows what they might do, I was just thinking about something that would add value and entice people to buy direct.

#2 did you mean to say at 7 months.

 

[bighoo93]

And what people are trying to tell you is the only real business DVC does is selling points, so "smart business" for them is getting more people to buy direct and curtail the resale market. You seem to keep missing that point.

Yes, the Disney corporation makes money off resale buyers in the parks and restaurants. But DVC only makes money when someone buys a contract directly from them, therefore it's only logical that they will continue to find ways to prop up the direct market. The did one round of restrictions, there is no reason to think they wouldn't do it again.

Believe me, nobody is being at all cryptic in communicating their belief that anything DVC can do to sell direct points and curtail resale is good business. Nobody is missing that. I just disagree with it.

Some things they can do would be good business, other things would not. It is, IMO, short-sighted to just look at whether something would compel people to purchase directly, without considering other ramifications. And to reiterate, I do not believe that Disney would ignore this. I've already explained in another post that the restrictions they introduced before were secondary benefits that were not fundamental to what people are purchasing in DVC. I'm sure some people didn't like it, but it doesn't seem to me that it impacted the value of the points significantly at all. Restricting the ability to use points at anywhere other than the home resort, on the other hand, does. So I don't think Disney will do this. But I have no inside info, this is just my opinion, and based on my understanding and experience with these types of decisions.

DVD is a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Company, as I understand it. Of course the unit would like to perform as well financially as it can, but it serves the good of the Walt Disney Company, not just itself. Its business practices and policies have to be considered in those terms, and not merely anything that promotes the sale of more direct points. If there were no Disney brand image in question, I still think it wouldn't be the right way to approach enhancing direct sales, but I would think there were a better chance of that mistake being made.

 

[GOOFY D]

And what people are trying to tell you is the only real business DVC does is selling points, so "smart business" for them is getting more people to buy direct and curtail the resale market. You seem to keep missing that point.

Yes, the Disney corporation makes money off resale buyers in the parks and restaurants. But DVC only makes money when someone buys a contract directly from them, therefore it's only logical that they will continue to find ways to prop up the direct market. The did one round of restrictions, there is no reason to think they wouldn't do it again.

Seems to be a risky move by Disney at best. It devalues the DVC IMO. If someone buys direct and have to sell for any reason, they are not getting nearly the value they paid for, because they are now selling a tainted product (does not have the perks that they paid for in a resale). If Disney does not guarantee a repurchase (which they can't), then people may think twice about spending so much money for something they cannot sell without taking a bath on it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Two thoughts:

1: Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, my understanding is that "Club" is a property of the home resort, not the specific deed. Having some deeds at a particular Home Resort be in the Club but not others would be difficult to accomplish. That's not to say that it would be impossible, but it would be hard. That's different from the non-Club uses that have already been curtailed. I could see GFV and subsequent DVC resorts starting a "new Club" with which "qualified" deeds in the "old Club" could exchange with on a 1-for-1 basis, and shutting "non-qualified" deeds out of it. Other developers (e.g. Diamond, Wyndham) have gone that route.

2: Guides have a relatively good reputation for being honest, but even so---they are timeshare salesmen. There is a limit to how far you should trust any of them when their advice boils down to: "You'd better decide what you are doing right now today!" Yes, the OP's Guide said buy resale earlier rather than later, but as we all know that is hard to do...and wouldn't a direct purchase just be simpler? Of course it would...

I would not be surprised to see other changes come to resale deeds---for example, I could imagine that resale buyers might not have AP discounts available to them some time in the future. But, this one sounds like too much work when simpler steps might get Disney what it wants.

 

[dcfromva]

Seems to be a risky move by Disney at best. It devalues the DVC IMO. If someone buys direct and have to sell for any reason, they are not getting nearly the value they paid for, because they are now selling a tainted product (does not have the perks that they paid for in a resale). If Disney does not guarantee a repurchase (which they can't), then people may think twice about spending so much money for something they cannot sell without taking a bath on it.

That would be what would de-motivate me to buy direct. (Although, im pretty much demotivated from buying direct since the last change) We made our first purchase in 2002 after taking 10 years to decide. We bought direct several times. One of the reasons we bought DVC was it seemed to hold its value better than other timeshares. Some of the contracts we purchased don't expire 'till Im around 100 years old. I expected re-sales to go down in value as points are used up, but I think the resale value would drop much faster if this comes to pass. Overall, it would make paying cash or renting DVC a much smarter move than buying.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

No different than not letting resale buyers use their points for DCL. There is a reason the the legal docs are written the way that they are.

Bill

I do believe it's different - at least from my understanding of the documents. Unless they plan on removing every resort from the club.

 

[dismagiclover]

I know this has been discussed in other threads before, but I agree that Disney is being very short sighted if they choose to devalue resale so drastically. They are under what I believe to be a mistaken assumption all people buying resale will instead choose to buy direct because of the restrictions. I can only speak for myself, but for me the choice wasn't between buying resale and buying direct. It was buying resale or not purchasing DVC. I wasn't willing to pay the direct costs. So to get me to buy direct the prices would have to be slashed by 50%. (And that clearly isn't going to happen.) However, I still think Disney is better off because I purchased resale. What they got is someone who is committed to vacationing regularly with them until 2042. And as we all know, even with DVC, we spend thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation. If they make resales too restrictive they will drive away people like me.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Having just sold my last "direct" contract, I am now a "Restricted Owner" in that I only own resale DVC points. I am trying to figure this whole conversation out, rumor or not.

So, from what I've read, it appears that current resales owners would be grandfathered in until a determined date. From that point on, new restrictions on resales contracts. They would be limited to staying at home resort only. No staying somewhere else not even at 7 mos.

What if you are a combo property resales owner (post changes #2). Could you not then transfer your points to use at your other ownership because now you can't book at 7 mos? I guess combo owners would then have to have split stays to use all of thier points during one vacation? No waitlisting now? I see this as a big problem if you don't own all your points at one resort.

 

[CaptDadSparrow]

If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The main reason we bought where we wouldn't mind staying every trip because that is the only thing we are "guaranteed". However, if one is a multiple resales new restrictions resort points owner, I see this impacting them more.

If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?

 

[bighoo93]

If disney will grandfather resale buyers before new changes take effect, it seems to me that this will grow the resale market. This will create positive demand which may increase the cost of resale points (good for sellers). So if you can live with the current rules and restrictions, isn't it a great time and reason to buy resale now more than ever...before more restrictions take place?

Life is never with out changes. If I was a seasoned resale buyer this would seem to be good news unless you are concerned that they won't use the grandfather rule.

Maybe in the end it's a pendulum that is self correcting with the market. Maybe the resale market will end up being more like other non Disney time share is that a bad or unfair thing for getting it at "wholesale" prices?

I guess it's possible that some people are sitting around with $10,000 burning a hole in their pocket, and this might prompt them to spend. But by definition we are just talking about people who would have bought anyway, they just move their purchase up. So no net additional sales or market increase. Devaluing resale points is not going to stimulate the resale market, and if it were, Disney wouldn't want to do it.

 

[bcarpenter]

This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I never even thought about the rental market. Good point.

 

[bighoo93]

This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.

I'm not sure this will be the case. Renting points is the alternative to cash rental, and I don't see those prices dropping. Why would more rental points hit the market based on these restrictions?

 

[DougEMG]

Wouldn't that be the case even now. At 11 months, all BLT owners whether they are resale or direct have equal opportunity to book their home resort, BLT. At 7 months, there could be nothing left for anyone including any BLT owners direct or not.

So I am confused in how the change would make it any different.

The difference is that currently you can book at any resort, so even if a resale owner's resort is booked up, they can book elsewhere.

 

[CaptDadSparrow]

A

This is an interesting idea & if it comes to pass, it wouldn't drive me to buy direct... it would drive me to not buy at all. I think with these restrictions, we'll find that rental points will become cheaper as more & more points will come on the market with rental restrictions for use at one resort only. Renting these restricted points will become much more affordable.

That doesn't make economic sense. People renting points don't care about options to stay at different locations. They simply rent where they want to go. It should have no negative impact on the rental market... Unless you assume resale contract holder will flood the market trying to get rid of their points. But then that doesn't make sense since only a minority with have such a negative feeling because they can't use their points on cruises, adventures and such. The end result will be a handful of vocal individuals and everyone else will adapt, rent or sell. It won't be enough to affect the direct and resale market negatively. Disney has some pretty smart bean counters and the power to alter the rules at any time to make the vocal minority happy enough....or maybe its a smart move many businesses have done forever, let go of the less profitable in favor of a smaller, more profitable market.

No one ever said dvc was supposed to be for everyone at any affordability level. Other wise they would have a dvc level for moderate or value resorts. Exclusivity fosters pride in ownership.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I'm not sure this will be the case. Renting points is the alternative to cash rental, and I don't see those prices dropping. Why would more rental points hit the market based on these restrictions?

Well if one owns at a more in demand resort I could see rental prices even increasing. But if one owns at a lesser demand resort one will have to really drop the ppt to get someone to rent.

 

[CaptDadSparrow]

Well if one owns at a more in demand resort I could see rental prices even increasing. But if one owns at a lesser demand resort one will have to really drop the ppt to get someone to rent.

Not true. Everyone has a preference and it's rarely the same. More importantly there are enough Disney vacationers with enough varried interest to retain value.