DL & DCA -Disability Access Service Card- Post 1 update 12/7/14 DAS tied to ticket

Discussion in 'disABILITIES!' started by SueM in MN, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. KPeveler

    KPeveler Moderator Moderator

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    If you see a short wait, you can always enter the standard queue (and you can see these queues for a lot of Fantasyland rides). I am not sure if they will make you check in for rides with low waits, or if they will just tell you when you get the ID "If the posted wait time is less than 15 minutes, then you do not need a time". I am not sure, but this is the type of info we hope to get from Disney as soon as we can.
     
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  3. Minuet888

    Minuet888 DIS Veteran

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    I have numerous questions as I have an 8 year old son with autism. He cannot do lines or crowds. He also has ADD/ADHD with his autism and these two things do NOT mix. His brain does not shut down nor slow down he is on go go go and his autism doesn't allow him to process the go go go. So that is why we have meltdowns.

    Now that we know there will be kiosks at Disneyland (According to the Disneyland website itself) how many kiosks will there be in the park? I have heard only 4 but that is going to lead to long lines just to get a return time ticket. I once waited 20 minutes at RSR to get a return time ticket. Are the kiosks automated or a CM handing out the tickets?

    I can imagine the lines at city hall trying just to get a DAS card that is going to suck up a huge part of our day plus what am I supposed to do with my son then who can't wait in lines while I am waiting to get the DAS? It's just him and me, I can't have anyone else wait in the line, same question with the kiosk lines.

    They say they are going to shave off 10 minutes off the return time but what about the time I spend waiting for the kiosk? I think I am going to be waiting longer that the return time. For example let's say it is noon and I want to go on Indiana Jones that has a 90 minute return time. I get in line for the kiosk at noon and let's say I wait 20 minutes. So now it is 12:20 and I get a time to return at 1:40. Technically I should have gotten it for 1:20 so now I am already 20 minutes behind. I then at 1:40 go to the fastpass line but the fastpass line itself takes 20 minutes to get through so I don't get to go on the ride until 2pm. That is 30 minutes past the time had I just gotten in the standby line. See what I mean?
    I know some people want to argue well we don't know that there will be lines at the kiosks but let's face it if it takes 20 minutes to get a return time ticket for just RSR DAS holders and these kiosks have to handle every single ride in the park for DAS holders? There will be lines.

    Also what if they give me a return time for a ride at 90 minutes but I get to that ride and find that the return time was only 45 minutes? What do I do then?

    Do they have things to do for this 90 minutes I am supposed to be waiting? Disneyland only has one show and what if a showtime doesn't occur during my wait time? They say go wait in a smaller line but let's face it first there are no small lines anymore in Disneyland and second my son can't wait in any lines. So what does Disney expect us to do for 90 minutes with an ADD/ADHD autistic kid? Allow him to sit in center circle and have a meltdown because he is sitting in the middle of Disneyland with everything around him and can't do anything because we are waiting for a return time???
    I wish we could wait in a standby line as the line moves and you are going towards a goal and there is interactive stuff and things to watch (like Star Tours) but he just can't do it.

    There have been several times I have stood in line (before we had our son) where the sign says the line is 90 minutes from this point but only ended up standing in line for 45 minutes. What about then where there wait times are too exaggerated??


    On a final note I don't get why these people in NY hired a disabled person to get them through the line. All they had to do was rent a wheelchair themselves or just get a GAC saying they have an autistic kid or have a back problem and can't stand for long periods and still get the same result. Why did they have to hire someone? Doesn't make any sense. How were they caught? It's just too suspicious for me.
     
  4. KPeveler

    KPeveler Moderator Moderator

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    First of all, Disney was working on changing the system long before there were those news stories about people hiring folks with a GAC. The real problem is that the GAC system was designed with a lot fewer users in mind, and so it got overwhelmed.

    Second, I believe that Disney, if there is a long kiosk line, will take that waiting time into account. If the line looks long, keep track of how long you were in the queue.

    Third, the app that Disney is using to judge wait times is free to the public as well - so you can know what the wait time is before even getting in the kiosk line. I asked Disney how they would handle the kiosk lines getting long, and they said they were aware and addressing it. That being said, do not go to get in the kiosk line right after a parade, fireworks, Fantasmic, etc.

    About the wait times being inaccurate - that is one reason I will be looking at more than the Disney app. If I see a major discrepancy, I will either ask them about it, or ride a different attraction.

    When you wait your 90 minutes, using your example, and then show up to the ride and see a 45 minute posted wait, that does not mean you have waited an incorrect amount of time - that just means that the wait time when you got the Return Time was 90 minutes, and then an hour and a half later, it may be shorter. And yes, I am sure there is a time that the posted wait time reported to the kiosk is incorrect - no one is perfect. But in general, I have found the posted time to be nearly always correct. And don't forget, there will be times that you get a Return Time for 45 minutes and it turns out that the wait time was incorrect, it was actually 90! Just remember that it can go both ways, and I am sure that if you wait a shorter time than actual stand-by, you would not want them penalizing you on your next ride!

    When it comes to things to do that do not have a wait, here is a partial list...

    There are plenty of things to do in Disneyland that either require no wait or have short waits. There is Mickey and the Magical Map (the theatre seats 1800 - I have never seen it full), Tiki Room (continuous shows), Billy Hill and the Hillbillies (generally 4-5 shows/day, no lines beforehand - just go in), Fantasy Faire Royal Theatre (8 shows a day), Laughing Stock, ride the Mark Twain and/or the Columbia (yes, this wait area can be crowded, but tell the CM letting you in that your son is autistic, can they give you a place to the side - I do this now), Dapper Dans, Main Street Marching Band, Firehouse band, Straw Hatters, Pearl-Something Band, Boot Strappers, Jazz in New Orleans Square, coloring in Big Thunder Ranch jamboree, seeing/petting the animals in Big Thunder Ranch, Main Street vehicles (horse drawn trolley, fire truck, car, and bus), Mickey's House, Minnie's House, Chip and Dale Treehouse, Tarzan's Treehouse, all the buttons and things to touch in Toontown outside Roger Rabbit, Tom Sawyer Island (which has both places to play and quiet corners), Disneyland Railroad (which generally is not going to have a wait), Ragtime Piano Player (Coke Corner), Innoventions, Capt Eo, Main Street Theatre (with black and white Mickey cartoons), Disney Gallery with the 50th anniversary video playing, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, Jedi Training Academy...

    All of this I came up with off the top of my head. I am in a wheelchair, cannot handle crowds, have ADHD in addition to other things, and I rarely transfer, so that means I look at all the things I listed above, often. I rarely actually enter an "attraction." I will start compiling a list for families like yours who may not know about these things. I will also make one for DCA. Tonight I am too tired to write it all down, but this is just what I came up with off the top of my head. There is a lot to enjoy, in both parks.

    I, too, understand about how this waiting system can be unfair, as I usually need to wait for a wheelchair accessible vehicle (WAV) or transfer accessible vehicle (TAV). This means that after I wait my turn, with the DAS (assuming I get one), I am going to have to wait again for the WAV or TAV. I may also need to wait because there is a limit to the number of wheelchair users allowed on an attraction at any one time. This means if three wheelchair users all show up at Casey Junior Circus Train at the same time, even if we have waiting the appropriate stand-by time, I get to wait for the entire ride to cycle 3 times. So I fully understand about how the system is not perfect, but no system is. The GAC system certainly is not (otherwise I would not wait twice as long in the heat and sun to get on Pirates!)

    Keep an eye here for more information about what you can do that does not require waiting - there are more shows than you think!
     
  5. luv2sleep

    luv2sleep DIS Veteran

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    I have a son on the spectrum with ADHD symptoms too. Many times it's hard to get him to want to do shows, etc. He is afraid of characters so that's out. Sometimes just walking at length from one place to the other has him wanting to leave the park entirely which is why I don't do touring plans. I loved the GAC because we went easily from one attraction to the next with relative ease. In his mind that linear progression made sense and was ok. We are going to DL today. I'm anxious about the kiosk in regards to having to go back and firth to it vs just saying where we are and doing what he wants to do in that specific location before moving on. 4 kiosks doesn't seem like enough for that reason.
     
  6. Mousequake

    Mousequake Mouseketeer

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    Can I ask what time of year you went that you waited 20 minutes for a return time ticket at RSR? I've gotten return times at that same attraction probably a dozen times at various times of the year, and never waited more than a minute or two if at all. In almost every case, there has been no line at all.
     
  7. Aladora

    Aladora DIS Veteran

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    The process to get a DAS is exactly the same as for the GAC, with the small addition of taking a photo. We've taken our son to DL 4 times and have gone to city hall each time for a GAC, none of the times has there been a wait longer than 10 minutes.

    How did you get a GAC for your son before? The person needing the GAC has always had to be there, you have not been able to go and get one for someone else, at least not that I've ever heard.

    Also, have you checked out the new guide that Disney has posted for guests with cognitive delays? I've read through it and I think they did an amazing job!

    It is going to be an adjustment and I know that a fairly large number of kids are going to have to learn the new way to enjoy Disney, my son included. Every time we have taken our son to DL, we have toured it using a GAC but now that is gone so we have two choices, adapt or find somewhere else to go on vacation.

    It seems as though the concept and implementation of the program is constantly evolving and it has not even started yet! I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes down after the first few days (weeks, months even!) before I start to lose sleep over it.

    I'm not going to lie, I am concerned about our next trip in March. But, Disney is getting rid of the old GAC program as of this week and they are starting the new DAS program. There is nothing I can do to change this, the only thing I can change is how I react to the change.
     
  8. lanejudy

    lanejudy Moderator Moderator

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    Terrific attitude! I also am taking the wait-and-see approach, hopeful that we'll figure out the new routine. I do feel for those whose vacations are falling right at this change-over time, though, as without the benefit of feedback to help plan it must be stressful.

    Enjoy your vacation in March!
     
  9. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    As of this last weekend, we are already beginning to see the problems with issuing the cards for shorter periods. I know two people who got GACs renewed on Saturday, one waited 20 minutes and the other 30 minutes in line.

    The problem here is that now that everyone has to get them more often, it results in a substantially longer line. We saw the wait times increase when it went from 2 months to 2 weeks and we are indeed seeing a proportional increase to being valid for less time.

    My opinion though is that if it does take 30 minutes, they should be writing your first return time on the pass, accounting for that wait time right there. I don't know if that's how it will work, but it is how it SHOULD work to be fair to everyone.
     
  10. Minuet888

    Minuet888 DIS Veteran

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    I do not trust the app with the waiting times what I was referring to is what if I get a return time of 90 minutes and then walk by that same attraction only to find out the waiting time is less than what they just gave me.

    A lot of what you listed either does have a waiting time (Like the train when you said it doesn't) or things my son just won't do nor sit still in (like the Lincoln theater thing we tried that once didn't work) nor does he want to stand on the street listening to the Dapper Dans, I thought for sure once he would do the Jedi Academy as he LOVES Star Wars but once it started he darted.

    I realize what Disney is and isn't going to do, and the reason I am freaking out before we have done this is because I know my son and I know what does and doesn't work for him and this doesn't work for him.

    I have an annual pass and if we can no longer visit Disney because of the changes they choose to make I expect a partial refund. There are thousands of other things they could have done. They chose this one. I am NOT the only person upset with this and am not the only person saying this isn't going to work for my child.
     
  11. Minuet888

    Minuet888 DIS Veteran

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    We never had to wait with the GAC before with this registering the first time and getting the photo the lines are going to be ridiculous. That is what I am talking about, the little thing about just getting the photo is when you are renewing it the first time they said it takes longer because you are registering etc.

    The reason I am reacting now as I have said is I know what does and doesn't work for my child and this doesn't work.

    Just because Disney IS chosing to do this doesn't mean I HAVE to like it.
    I feel there is something we can do to change this and so do a lot of the parents on the autism boards. Like I said I am NOT the only person who feels this way.
     
  12. englishrose47

    englishrose47 DIS Veteran

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    I will be travelling with 8 Developmentally Disabled ,their special needs are across the board , but with the help of a couple of wonderful Dis Friends helping me plan for low crowd days , utilize both FP+ and regular FP and the DAS , I am confident we will have a GREAT time !! Do I like the changes NO !! Do I understand Disney's reasoni9ng .. Absolutely, to all those cheaters out there I have nothing but contempt . I have a Grandson with severe ADHD, ODD and IED, so we also used it when it was the family going , never once did I use it , because I didn't feel my achy bones warranted it !! I think we all need to sit back and watch !!I will be there the second week it starts so a lot of kinks will not be worked out . It is NOT going to stop me having a GREAT time !!
     
  13. Aladora

    Aladora DIS Veteran

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    No, you are absolutely not the only person who feels this way and I say to you what I have said to others:

    The DAS has not even been implemented yet.

    The DAS seems to be an evolving program.

    We have no idea what the lines are going to be like to get the DAS card.

    We have no idea what the lines are going to be like at the kiosks. We don't even know if they are keeping the kiosks or not.

    At least give the new system a chance before getting all ranty and demanding a refund.


    The first time I read about the changes, I also thought about our recent choice to get APs. I was also worried about how our son was going to cope with the new way of doing Disneyland. I was sad to think that our wonderful Disneyland vacations were not going to be as fantastic and questioned whether or not we would be able to go back.

    Then I realized that I was being silly. That the new system had not started yet and that I really needed to get a grip and wait until we know how this is going to effect our kids and our ability to enjoy Disneyland.

    I have used the GAC every time with our son and I have always been one to fully admit that the way we tour Disneyland using the GAC in the way that the CM have directed us to use it has resulted in us basically having an unlimited Fast Pass for any ride we want. It was not a FOTL pass, but the next thing to one.

    This means that we have not received EQUAL access due to my son's disability, we have received SUPERIOR access. Is this what Disney intended with the GAC? No. The GAC was supposed to give equal access, not superior access.

    The new DAS seems to allow for equal access. We will wait as long (more or less) as other guests without disabilities, but we are able to wait in a way that my son can cope with.

    I do have some concerns about the DAS, for instance I am not a fan of the kiosks and I really hope that AP holders can get one for longer than 1 day but those are issues that might get ironed out.

    I do understand why you are upset and worried about future trips, I really do. I know all too well the challenges of dealing with a child with disabilities. I also have an 8 year old with autism, so I really do know where you are coming from.

    But that does not mean that we should get better access and really, that is what we have been receiving. If Disney had continued with the GAC program then we would continue to have used it but they are not so again, we can either adapt or give up.
     
  14. Spoot

    Spoot Earning My Ears

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    Great post - it covers my thoughts almost exactly.

    The only place we disagree is the bit I bolded. I actually preferred the idea of the kiosks rather than having to go the ride to get the time stamp. We mainly do WDW and it sounds like there will be no kiosks there - I think that we may have trouble with that.
     
  15. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    Just a piece of information that I have received via email from Disney is that the DAS cards will be valid for shows and accessible viewing areas at parades.

    I don't know if they will count as a return time or not, but I thought some might like to know.
     
  16. bidnow5

    bidnow5 DIS Veteran

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    I hope it doesn't happen but if it takes 30 or more minutes to get a card then it isn't equal access
     
  17. KPeveler

    KPeveler Moderator Moderator

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    I just wanted to repeat what I said in the other thread - that these areas are very very crowded, and that, for most sections and parades, do not have a place to sit. Sometimes an area will have a bench, and one area for the parade in DL and one section for WOC (that I know of) have benches. But in these areas wheelchairs will be parked in the front row.

    In Fantasmic, the policy until now has been that if someone in your group did not have a physical wheelchair, stroller as wheelchair, or walker with a seat, the party was not allowed into the wheelchair viewing area. Even if you had a GAC which allowed a person to use wheelchair accessible entrances, the section was for wheelchairs only. I do not see them changing this part of the policy. There are NO benches in the Fantasmic viewing area, so there is nowhere to sit.

    Wheelchairs are always lined up along the front of the wheelchair viewing area (for daytime parades, that depends on the CMs running the area), and even in the off-season, the wheelchair viewing area for Fantasmic fills very quickly. In fact, to get the best viewing people show up 2 hours early, even with a wheelchair.

    In all of the accessible viewing areas, they are generally small and crowded areas. They fill up fast, and are not great places for people who need to be able to move around or who do not like to be crowded or touched. Also, in DL, all wheelchair viewing areas except 1 (one) - once you are in it, and the parade starts or there are people in the areas around you - you are trapped (unless you go off the curb into the parade route, assuming the parade is not happening).

    In the Fantasmic and WOC viewing areas, down in the tiers, you will be similarly stuck, crowded in by people around you. Only at the very end of the F! wheelchair section, where viewing is not as good, would you have a chance to leave if a child became overwhelmed.

    I say this just to give a heads up to people who may not have been allowed in this section before - they may not be the best areas for autistic children or others who need room to move.
     
  18. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    I do agree that they may not always be the best for autistic or those that need room to move. But, I feel that this is good information to know for those of us with difficulty standing for the length of waiting and the show on top of that. However, there is almost always an escape route, but in many cases, you will not be able to get back in once leaving the area. I wouldn't use one of these places if there wasn't, due to my needs. And yes, once the parade or show starts, you are often stuck, but in many cases that is true no matter where you are.

    I mean no disrespect here in any way, but I do have some corrections and comments to the information that KPeveler has provided, based on actual experiences this last Saturday:

    WOC currently has about five ADA viewing areas throughout the viewing area, in addition to the two in the back. NOTE: Some of these areas may already be filled, depending on the needs of the guests there. With the exception of the ones in the back, they can make these less crowded upon request, if you have the need. There will still be other people there, just fewer people.

    Fantasmic!: The ADA viewing area does have benches and those with GACs have been able to use them since about 2011 and I have never heard of anyone with an applicable stamp being turned away since then, unless the viewing area there was already full. NOTE: For those with wheelchairs and ECVs, you can be in the back of most sitting areas and will generally get a better view of the show by doing this.

    Aladdin: Currently a GAC, Wheelchair or ECV is required to bypass the stairs (yes, they were making those with canes and walkers use the stairs, which I found ridiculous.)

    Parades: At DCA, I know of no specific viewing areas for accessibility, at Disneyland, there is one with benches and yes, wheelchairs may be in front of some of the benches, but due to the incline that they are placed on, you should still be able to see while sitting on the benches and that area does have an escape path, but you may not be able to get back in once you leave.

    Unfortunately, the fireworks have no accessible viewing area, which is desperately needed due to how they configure the viewing area now with standing in front of the hub. When they had sitting in front of the hub it wasn't that big of a deal, as wheelchairs could be at the back and see over everyone, now all they get to see is the rear end of the person in front of them.

    One other comment is if you don't feel that an ADA spot will meet your needs, talk with a CM and explain your needs. They are usually happy to help and I have not seen them refuse a reasonable request.
     
  19. Minuet888

    Minuet888 DIS Veteran

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    I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.

    It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.

    Granted I'm not a fortune teller about the lines but I am using my knowledge of what we have went through in the past to get things do things and that's BEFORE this system is in effect and EVERYONE has to go to the same place makes it all the more worse.

    Same thing with the kiosks.

    It is difficult for me to say give it a chance when I already know what does and doesn't work for my son. Sure let's go all the way down there (getting my son excited in the process) and when we get there it's a nightmare my son has several meltdowns but I'll put him through all that just for me to confirm what I already know about my son, he can't do this. Forgive me for being "ranty" but I'm the only one who can when it comes to my son because he can't do it for himself.



    Exactly what I am saying!


    I'm not saying this doesn't happen to everyone but we actually had a different experience with Fantasmic. My son needs room to move and we need a good exit strategy as I've said but we were allowed to be in the handicapped section of Fantasmic. My son as well as I can stand no problem. Our problems with the handicapped section is that it is way off to the left and we really can't see the water screen and only get the profile of Mickey Mouse on the island. Plus it is very crowded in that area and my son wasn't making it. When we had to depart because my son couldn't do it we found ourselves with a bad exit strategy. There were crowds behind us around us and to get out with a melting down child was extremely difficult.
    So if we want to do Fantasmic we have to pay for it. We do the desert option. It is really good for him. Lots of room he can snack on the food while waiting for the show to start. It is pretty much front and center. If we needed to exit for any reason (we never had with this area) it exits straight out into the street walking aisle whatever you want to call it area for us to walk to where ever we are going.
    So we actually have to pay extra if we want to do some things in Disneyland with my son.


    Now a question:
    What is the difference between Fastpass and Fastpass + I have never seen a Fastpass+ at Disneyland.


    While discussing this issue on the autism boards people have been finding a way to "double down" as they are calling it on the boards. Here is how it works (I am NOT saying to do this I am just pointing out that this system is also subject to abuse) Say my son has the DAS and if my husband gets to come with us We have a party of 3 on his DAS. Then I get a wheelchair and since I don't have to show proof I too will be getting a return time ticket for each ride. So we can get two attractions at the same time, one on my son's DAS and one on mine. See what I mean?

    Even though it isn't "front of the line" people will still abuse it because they still don't want to wait in lines and they still don't have to as the abusers are capable of waiting in lines they go on smaller rides or see shows or eat while waiting for their return time. Other people without the card can't do this. It's still abuse.
    Disney isn't solving anything.
     
  20. Minuet888

    Minuet888 DIS Veteran

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    With the Fantasmic thing that's what I mentioned in the post earlier. We were always able to be in the handicapped section.

    With the fireworks they actually do have seating but it is never really available. The central hub and around it and right in front of it have benches. These are first reserved for Make a Wish kids and the VIP tours. Afterwards it is a first come first serve basis for those with a GAC card BUT you have to go to City Hall to ask that your name be put on the list. They will then tell you if there is room or not they sometimes have room at the train station sectioned off seating. But honestly unless you are there first thing in the morning to put your name on the list forget it.
     
  21. Spoot

    Spoot Earning My Ears

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    I find it disgusting that people on an autism board would be discussing ways to abuse the system - all the while yelling about how they (and their children) are being punished because Disney wanted to stop abusers.
     
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