Disney offers new premium package for Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party

[lockedoutlogic]

I've watched the fireworks from all locations and noticed one thing. The presentation is always the same. How much obstruction do you get looking up. No matter where you are don't drop your jaw in awe. Never knew when a startled sea gull will fly by.

Thank you for printing what I couldn't bring myself to write for about 4 years now.

This exclusive fireworks viewing nonsense really is another can of adder oil...

I get its nice not to be packed like a sardine...I know that has some value...but now putting in new asphalt and AstroTurf to Book it in advance...let alone sell it is getting out of hand.

It's sometimes impossible around here to even try not to let common sense ruin the fun...but I swear I do try.

Here's the commonsense: the fireworks youre viewing are 16 and 12 years old respectively...and fantasmic is 15...

And why is this important? Well...I guess that could be just me.

Oh nevermind...I retract everything.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I have no problem with upsells until they became upsells of upsells and those things you could expect in the original upsell suddenly come only with an extra charge. Hopefully Disney won't get carried away with that.

When the upsells diminish the value of the ticket...I get frustrated

Not only the day ticket - which they should attempt to protect value at nearly all costs - because that's their longterm financial security...

But also the upsell ticket. Selling 50,000 tickets to a Halloween party diminishes the value of the ticket. There's nothing exlcusive about it for 1/3 the normal park hours at 75% of the cost.

 

[loveshak22]

I think you got it exactly right.

In our past few parties....it just doesn't feel all that "limited". And that's going in mid-October-ish. We find we need to stake out a spot around 7:45 PM for an 8:30 ish parade spot..that we tend to keep until the fireworks are over. And then we have to go through holy hell to try to keep that spot for the 5 of us. Lots of pushing, shoving, jostling..people trying to slip their kids in front, or next to (in a pretty noteable invastion of personal space kinda way), my kids, etc. And god help us if anyone needs to pee.

So, in essence, I agree that Disney overselling (IMHO) parties is a big reason they can then turn around and offer a 70 upcharge to avoid the monster they've created. Which I will gripe about seven ways from Sunday.

But...when considering our actual vacation...I'll hand them the $70 because, at the end of the day, they're offering a "solution" (and yes, it's a solution to a problem they basically caused) to something I hate with a burning passion: The process of staking out and holding a parade/fireworks spot. And they're offering some comfort to go along with it.

And, as a bonus, we'll get to stuff ourselves on sugar, get a cheap ceramic mug with 10 pieces of candy.

Silly Disney and their Catch-22's! You sound like me when the Fall discount didn't apply to the room I wanted and I had to opt for a different room. Despite the fact that the room I really wanted was already double market price, they still didn't offer any discounts. There's no way I'm paying rack rate at a Disney deluxe resort. I was doing the metaphorical shaking of the fist in the air with rage, and was ranting about moving offsite to the Waldorf where I could get more room for less! That's right! If Disney wants to be ridiculous I can get more somewhere else! But...then I put my fist down, cancelled my room at the Waldorf, went back to the Disney website and reserved the room where the Fall discount could be applied. Am I still mad that Disney could easily have applied a discount to the room category I wanted since it's so overpriced as it is, or that I should have been a lucky random recipient of a UOC in the mail for goodness sake...yes...but, in the end, I'm still staying onsite. But - I'm not doing MVMCP...that will show Disney! Well, I mean, I probably won't do MVMCP...

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of the term limited. A limited special event meant limited engagement. It is special in that it is not every night and not every season. Did Disney every say they were limiting the number of tickets sold to limit attendance below normal? I don't think so. The parties have simply grown in size. You still get special events at the party. And "up-selling" wherever possible was part of Walt's original design. Don't like up-sales? How about Walt's Club 33? This is the ultimate exclusive up-sale. It is all part of the business. I like some additional ticket items like the Christmas and Halloween parties and we are doing the dessert/fireworks special at the Halloween party. I like the convenience. I hate - loathe with every fiber of my being - having to stake out a spot in a crowd and just stand there to wait for a parade or fireworks. Love the party within a party idea. So do many others as both sell very well.

 

[loveshak22]

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of the term limited. A limited special event meant limited engagement. It is special in that it is not every night and not every season. Did Disney every say they were limiting the number of tickets sold to limit attendance below normal? I don't think so. The parties have simply grown in size. You still get special events at the party. And "up-selling" wherever possible was part of Walt's original design. Don't like up-sales? How about Walt's Club 33? This is the ultimate exclusive up-sale. It is all part of the business. I like some additional ticket items like the Christmas and Halloween parties and we are doing the dessert/fireworks special at the Halloween party. I like the convenience. I hate - loathe with every fiber of my being - having to stake out a spot in a crowd and just stand there to wait for a parade or fireworks. Love the party within a party idea. So do many others as both sell very well.

I think Disney definitely sells this as a limited ticket event, meaning a limited number of tickets are sold. The Disney website says "The number of tickets available is limited. Events may sell out early."

And if over the last 5 years people have seen crowds increase from low to almost as busy as a crowded park day, then I would think one could assume that the "limited number of tickets" has increased.

I think everyone, for the most part, is agreeing with you though that at the end of the day if people will pay it then they will sell it. And, this is obviously a popular event that will continue.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of the term limited. A limited special event meant limited engagement. It is special in that it is not every night and not every season. Did Disney every say they were limiting the number of tickets sold to limit attendance below normal? I don't think so. The parties have simply grown in size. You still get special events at the party. And "up-selling" wherever possible was part of Walt's original design. Don't like up-sales? How about Walt's Club 33? This is the ultimate exclusive up-sale. It is all part of the business. I like some additional ticket items like the Christmas and Halloween parties and we are doing the dessert/fireworks special at the Halloween party. I like the convenience. I hate - loathe with every fiber of my being - having to stake out a spot in a crowd and just stand there to wait for a parade or fireworks. Love the party within a party idea. So do many others as both sell very well.

Good points, except I don't think it was Walt's original plan for Club 33 to accept cash-paying members, but instead it was intended as a VIP lounge for the biggest sponsors. When it opened (after Walt's death) however it took members who paid cash.

I don't think the biggest objection against the up-sells is that they exist. I doubt if you could find a single thread anywhere on these boards complaining about the existence of zipline safari tours, or keys to the kingdom tours, or private receptions with reserved fireworks seating. The objections (I'm sorry for repeating the points yet again) are with the perception (by some) of poor cost/value, the diminishing of non-party guests park hours, the somewhat deceptive marketing (unless there is an asterisk many people will assume that 'limited' means 'limited capacity' not 'limited schedule'), and with the overselling of tickets to the point where (ludicrously - to some) it is necessary to offer up-sells of up-sells.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I get the points. I just don't agree with any of them:

• Poor cost/value is totally perception. Don't like - don't buy. Most see the value.
• Park hours have always changed for special events and don't change much. (I also don't think the average guest goes open to close) People are happy to go to one of the other 3 parks that day and know well ahead of time. It isn't every day, it is only a few days a week. Most days are normal days so it is a non-issue.
• People's misconceptions and incorrect assumptions are not deceptive marketing. The parties are limited - in number and they do sell out because they are popular.
• I don't think they are overselling. We had a blast the last several years at both Halloween and Christmas. Didn't seem bad to us. Perception of crowds simply because something is popular doesn't make Disney bad.
• Dessert parties don't take anything away from anyone else and don't hurt anyone. Neither does some reserved seating. Nor are they required because of overselling. It is simply a convenience I love packaged with some desserts and trinkets.

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

 

[Josh Hendy]

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

People disagree with you in their subjective opinions. That doesn't make their reasons worthless and it doesn't mean that they're cranks with a bad attitude.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I didn't say cranks. I didn't say worthless. I said nothing but perception which they are. No hard facts just perceptions. You highlighted selectively. I didn't say they had a bad attitude. But the negativity is self evident, whether it is for good reasons or not. Some here certainly aren't speaking positively about the subject matter at hand.

 

[Planogirl]

I get the points. I just don't agree with any of them:

• Poor cost/value is totally perception. Don't like - don't buy. Most see the value.
• Park hours have always changed for special events and don't change much. (I also don't think the average guest goes open to close) People are happy to go to one of the other 3 parks that day and know well ahead of time. It isn't every day, it is only a few days a week. Most days are normal days so it is a non-issue.
• People's misconceptions and incorrect assumptions are not deceptive marketing. The parties are limited - in number and they do sell out because they are popular.
• I don't think they are overselling. We had a blast the last several years at both Halloween and Christmas. Didn't seem bad to us. Perception of crowds simply because something is popular doesn't make Disney bad.
• Dessert parties don't take anything away from anyone else and don't hurt anyone. Neither does some reserved seating. Nor are they required because of overselling. It is simply a convenience I love packaged with some desserts and trinkets.

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

They didn't have it this year but many people felt that last year's Villains Soiree definitely took something away from the regular party goers. Apparently a lot of people find the meet and greets very important and weren't happy that some of the villains were no longer available.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Ok, that one I can agree with. If characters were available in one party and then premium in the next, that is a measurable loss. They did stop that one, right? So the one measurable loss has benn corrected?

 

[loveshak22]

I get the points. I just don't agree with any of them:

• Poor cost/value is totally perception. Don't like - don't buy. Most see the value.
• Park hours have always changed for special events and don't change much. (I also don't think the average guest goes open to close) People are happy to go to one of the other 3 parks that day and know well ahead of time. It isn't every day, it is only a few days a week. Most days are normal days so it is a non-issue.
• People's misconceptions and incorrect assumptions are not deceptive marketing. The parties are limited - in number and they do sell out because they are popular.
• I don't think they are overselling. We had a blast the last several years at both Halloween and Christmas. Didn't seem bad to us. Perception of crowds simply because something is popular doesn't make Disney bad.
• Dessert parties don't take anything away from anyone else and don't hurt anyone. Neither does some reserved seating. Nor are they required because of overselling. It is simply a convenience I love packaged with some desserts and trinkets.

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

I understand your points and agree that value is in the eye of the beholder. I know someone who will hold on to every last towel in their house for 10 years as opposed to spending $10 for a new one, but will spend $200 on a nice meal. We all value our money differently and find value in how we spend it.

But I disagree that people are being subjective (cost/value is perception)when they say that the value for Disney, comparatively is not the same as say 5 years ago. Objectively, if you sell 100 tickets at $65, and only those 100 people get use of a park for rides, character meet and greets, and events and now they sell 500 tickets, at $75, then you have 500 people now enjoying the same thing at a higher cost per person. That makes it less value for your dollar no matter how you look at it. That's objective.

The subjective part is who still finds that a value...and many people do, no doubt. It doesn't mean that the value and cost being less are just people's perceptions because it's a fact.

Additional, objective facts - Disney resorts are priced way over market value and keep going up, discounts keep going down and are offered less, ticket prices keep going up, and in some parks there are almost more rides closed than open. Yes, value is definitely starting to get stretched.

However, with all that said, millions still find Disney a good value because the parks and resorts are more packed than ever. But 5 years ago there is no arguing that $3,000 at Disney would get you a lot more than today, even accounting for an increase in the cost of living.

On here, many of us love Disney and will still pay the money and that's why Disney can continue to push the market. But, we obviously are going to still gripe about it - LOL!

 

[pilferk]

I get the points. I just don't agree with any of them:

• Poor cost/value is totally perception. Don't like - don't buy. Most see the value.
• Park hours have always changed for special events and don't change much. (I also don't think the average guest goes open to close) People are happy to go to one of the other 3 parks that day and know well ahead of time. It isn't every day, it is only a few days a week. Most days are normal days so it is a non-issue.
• People's misconceptions and incorrect assumptions are not deceptive marketing. The parties are limited - in number and they do sell out because they are popular.
• I don't think they are overselling. We had a blast the last several years at both Halloween and Christmas. Didn't seem bad to us. Perception of crowds simply because something is popular doesn't make Disney bad.
• Dessert parties don't take anything away from anyone else and don't hurt anyone. Neither does some reserved seating. Nor are they required because of overselling. It is simply a convenience I love packaged with some desserts and trinkets.

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

But, at the end of the day, aren't your "objections" also just someone's perceptions of something they LIKE offered by a business they think deserves the benefit of the doubt?

Point being...being dismissive sorta works both ways. No?

I think everyone would acknowledge there are alternate points of view. And I think they all merit discussion, rather than being dismissed out of turn.

 

[peg110]

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of the term limited. A limited special event meant limited engagement. It is special in that it is not every night and not every season. Did Disney every say they were limiting the number of tickets sold to limit attendance below normal? I don't think so.

Yes, they did on the site where you buy the tickets.

The number of tickets available is limited. Events may sell out early. Tickets purchased within 10 days of event will be available for pick up at the Will Call Window at Guest Relations. Tickets are valid only during specific event dates and hours. Entertainment, ticket types, entitlements and prices subject to change without notice. Tickets are nontransferable and nonrefundable.

While they don't define how limited, I think there is an "Implication" that it will be less crowded then a typical MK Park Day.

I get the points. I just don't agree with any of them:

That's your right. Some I don't totally agree with some, I completely agree with. I address your list below in "RED"

• Poor cost/value is totally perception. Don't like - don't buy. Most see the value. Agree, but you can't really form a good opinion until you have bought it once. Sites like this, however, can help people to understand others experiences and can aid in them making their choice.
  
• Park hours have always changed for special events and don't change much. (I also don't think the average guest goes open to close) People are happy to go to one of the other 3 parks that day and know well ahead of time. It isn't every day, it is only a few days a week. Most days are normal days so it is a non-issue. Don't entirely agree. The park hours DO change frequently. Because of events, seasons, etc... Not sure if you are saying that for a particular event the change of hours isn't much (i.e. from 9AM to 11 PM - > 9AM to 7PM is not much of a change/loss of hours). And despite the fact that most don't go from open to close, it still impacts visitors. We have NEVER gotten the Park Hopper. We always go to 1 park for the day (and don't hop). While we don't go from open to close, we might go from Lunch to close or from RD to Lunch, go take a nap/dip in pool, and come back from Dinner to close. So it still can be an impact. That being said, we plan accordingly based on the park hours, events, etc.... But my DW is meticulous in this area to cover all things we want to do. Not everyone is so diligent.
• People's misconceptions and incorrect assumptions are not deceptive marketing. The parties are limited - in number and they do sell out because they are popular. But playing on peoples "Misconceptions and Incorrect assumptions" to their advantage IS deceptive marketing. While I cannot confirm this one way or the other, I don't think you can positively dispute it either.
• I don't think they are overselling. We had a blast the last several years at both Halloween and Christmas. Didn't seem bad to us. Perception of crowds simply because something is popular doesn't make Disney bad. Agree that it doesn't make Disney bad, but it DOES make me not want to go. I can say positively that in Early December 2012, we went to the MVMCP and it wasn't too bad as far as crowd. We went again (twice) in Early December 2014 and the crowd was Markedly larger on BOTH days we went despite the fact that it rained on the first day we went. Additionally, the you had to wait significantly for your "Free Cookies and Cocoa" (not that this was our reason for going, but just another point). They would frequently run out and you would have to wait for a re-supply. It didn't seem like the crowd was being overly "Piggish" for them either.
  
• Dessert parties don't take anything away from anyone else and don't hurt anyone. Neither does some reserved seating. Nor are they required because of overselling. It is simply a convenience I love packaged with some desserts and trinkets. Agreed I suppose. I agree that they don't take away from a special event by themselves. If you are paying for a special event and you choose to avail yourself of another upsell, then that's your choice. That is a value that only the individual can really define for themselves.

In other words: I've heard all the arguments and they add up to nothing but someone's perception of something they don't like at a business they are looking for something to complain about.

It's not all about complaints as much as it's trying to share an experience. (maybe a little of "Misery loves company" thing to) I find value in hearing other peoples experiences and opinions. It can help me to make my decisions. Besides much "Change" in life and business starts with a complaint, so is it really all that bad?

 

[Spaceguy55]

Yes, they did on the site where you buy the tickets.

While they don't define how limited, I think there is an "Implication" that it will be less crowded then a typical MK Park Day.

I went to the party last year in late October for the first time and thought it was great and not too crowded. I also went to MK the next night and it was so crowded they had to use the overflow entrance behind main street and there was no room anywhere near main street to the castle to stand for the regular parade...so yes if you are going to Mk around the party nights it is less crowded on the party night...so they can say that that is true as compared to a non party night....there are a lot of people on the resort and they all can't go to a MNSSHP and still want to see the normal parades and fireworks

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think people are misunderstanding the meaning of the term limited. A limited special event meant limited engagement. It is special in that it is not every night and not every season. Did Disney every say they were limiting the number of tickets sold to limit attendance below normal? I don't think so. The parties have simply grown in size. You still get special events at the party. And "up-selling" wherever possible was part of Walt's original design. Don't like up-sales? How about Walt's Club 33? This is the ultimate exclusive up-sale. It is all part of the business. I like some additional ticket items like the Christmas and Halloween parties and we are doing the dessert/fireworks special at the Halloween party. I like the convenience. I hate - loathe with every fiber of my being - having to stake out a spot in a crowd and just stand there to wait for a parade or fireworks. Love the party within a party idea. So do many others as both sell very well.

Are you sure about that?

Because eride nights...which in many ways line up exactly like the parties do except for decorations...had a hard cap of 12,000-15,000 tickets sold... An they used the term "limited"

The Halloween and Christmas parties had the same type of hard cap ticket numbers in the system circa 2000...I can 100% guarantee.

Now...have they increased the numbers now? I do not know...but based on the look of the place it seems little doubt.

A "sold out" party in 2002 certainly seemed less crowded than one in 2014.

 

[pilferk]

Are you sure about that?

Because eride nights...which in many ways line up exactly like the parties do except for decorations...had a hard cap of 12,000-15,000 tickets sold... An they used the term "limited"

The Halloween and Christmas parties had the same type of hard cap ticket numbers in the system circa 2000...I can 100% guarantee.

Now...have they increased the numbers now? I do not know...but based on the look of the place it seems little doubt.

A "sold out" party in 2002 certainly seemed less crowded than one in 2014.

Yeah, that number has at least doubled...and quite possibly more than doubled...since those days.

 

[Spaceguy55]

Well they have expanded the capacity for standing in front of the castle.. so that's more room along with the FL expansion...hence more tickets

 

[karen4546]

At least this years add on doesn't take away from the Party. Like I said in a previous post- we are going the first night.

Is it worth the money-idk since my DD has never been to a MNSSHP or to a dessert fireworks. I do know that if you don't want to go then don't. And those of us who decide to go and are able to get seats at the dessert party will be enjoying our over priced desserts watching Hallowishes.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

But I disagree that people are being subjective (cost/value is perception)when they say that the value for Disney, comparatively is not the same as say 5 years ago. Objectively, if you sell 100 tickets at $65, and only those 100 people get use of a park for rides, character meet and greets, and events and now they sell 500 tickets, at $75, then you have 500 people now enjoying the same thing at a higher cost per person. That makes it less value for your dollar no matter how you look at it. That's objective.

The subjective part is who still finds that a value...and many people do, no doubt. It doesn't mean that the value and cost being less are just people's perceptions because it's a fact.

Additional, objective facts - Disney resorts are priced way over market value and keep going up, discounts keep going down and are offered less, ticket prices keep going up, and in some parks there are almost more rides closed than open. Yes, value is definitely starting to get stretched.

If you are getting the exact same activity with 500 people instead of 100, it doesn't mean you are getting less value. the idea that the value is less is totally subjective and NOT fact. Maybe part has to do with how much crowds impact your experience. Crowds are a part of Disney to me..

Disney isn't priced way over market value. If it was, attendance would go down.

But, at the end of the day, aren't your "objections" also just someone's perceptions of something they LIKE offered by a business they think deserves the benefit of the doubt?

Point being...being dismissive sorta works both ways. No?

I think everyone would acknowledge there are alternate points of view. And I think they all merit discussion, rather than being dismissed out of turn.

Well, of course being dismissive works both ways, that is the whole point of a discussion. People disagree. People read and dismiss my points and accept the opposite arguments. Others accept my arguments and dismiss the others as not "adding up." That is how this works. None of us can agree with both sides. I didn't condemn anyone. I just pointed out that I read the arguments in the negative and rejected, in this case, all of them. I don't agree. Others do. (I did agree with a subsequent point). Dismiss or reject means I do not accept the point or logic of the argument, not that I didn't consider it.

Are you sure about that?

Because eride nights...which in many ways line up exactly like the parties do except for decorations...had a hard cap of 12,000-15,000 tickets sold... An they used the term "limited"

The Halloween and Christmas parties had the same type of hard cap ticket numbers in the system circa 2000...I can 100% guarantee.

Now...have they increased the numbers now? I do not know...but based on the look of the place it seems little doubt.

A "sold out" party in 2002 certainly seemed less crowded than one in 2014.

Was there a hard cap, and what was it? Did parties sell out in the early 2,000s with few people in the park? I have not been to parties in both 2002 and 2014. Has someone else? Was there a measurable difference in attendance or a perception of crowds?

And this is the kicker: Could they not ride the rides in 2014 that they wanted to? Could they not see the characters they wanted to? Just because there are crowds does not automatically mean I am getting less value. Crowds are a part of theme park life.