DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Kgrace1989]

I was just thinking today that they should doubly scrutinize people who have called back after being rejected. Surely they can see the rejection notes?!

I don’t know how they’d implement the tracking and compiling but I think it would be beneficial. The autistic child mentioned above that re-rode the same thing is going to be a fairly common occurrence.
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I also wanted to add for someone above that mentioned severe cases and how they’ll function as an adult, it’s hard to tell. My son doesn’t like to leave the house. But as he’s aged his reasoning faculties are advancing, etc. My daughter is super social and appears neurotypical, but she’s the one that will scratch my eyes out when dysregulated. You never know. This is why I agree some adults with DD will need DAS as adults. @Kgrace1989 @LongLiveRafiki

Very much agreed… some people on the spectrum always need support and some have fewer challenges as they grow older.

 

[nalababybear]

I really don't think comparing Make a Wish is the route to go. Make a Wish as a program has the following qualifications
...
And I'm not even in the argument of discussing other disabled people getting a bit more, I don't really have an issue with that. But I can't think of a good reason to compare that with children who qualify for Make a Wish.

It's just an extreme example being made and pointed out by her; not a model to be mass replicated --which it simply cannot

 

[Jellybean9]

I think that is what gets lost in all this a lot of the time, people forget that people living with disabilities are at a massive disadvantage every day of their lives, and if it means the odd time they may get a bit more over someone else is okay in my books. A perfect example of this on a more extreme level is MAKE A WISH, my brother had leukemia in 2003 and fought it off thankfully by 2005, in 2006 Disney/Universal agreed to grant him his wish to come to those parks and my family of 5 at the time went to the parks and got to the front of the rides for everything. I think we can all safely agree that we are all okay with people in this situation getting this vastly special treatment, so why is so hard for people to be okay if disabled people may (depending on disabilities and other factors) get a bit more than a them in this one instance. Even when I have DAS and may ride things a little faster, doesn't mean I'm enjoying my day per se if my UC condition acts up all day.

Because it’s 2024 and everyone is disabled.

 

[nalababybear]

Very much agreed… some people on the spectrum always need support and some have fewer challenges as they grow older.

Hence -- spectrum. People forget that.

ASD is very broad.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Right, you highlight reasons why you can't compare a normal non-DAS guest's experience to a DAS guest's experience apples-to-apples.

Note, I didn't mention anything about the reported change to add a cool-down timer to the DAS request after tap-in. I think that this helps alleviate your stated concern about the double-line standing. You mention specifically BTMR, which has a second tap-in point, right before the stairway down. The 10 minute cool-down after that second tap-in will likely put you right in the middle of loading, the roller-coaster itself, or even after the ride, depending on how the CM are managing guests on the stairway and the timing of when you arrive to the second tap-in point.

In my experience, this really wasn't much of an issue. Most of the "bigger/E-ticket" attractions have a second tap-in point close to the loading of the vehicle making this mostly a non-issue. In those instances, I found it unwieldy to be trying to manage the group, get loaded up, experience the attraction and get my phone out to try to find the next attraction to request a return time. Most often, I wasn't able to request another time until after exiting the ride vehicle.

This significantly impacts your example. If the DAS user isn't able to book the return time for another 5 or 10 minutes (i.e., until after they've actually ridden), then the experience time is very close, assuming that standby time is spot on. Any variation to that time, or quicker pace to the non-DAS user's gait to Buzz Lightyear's, and the comparison also starts to be a non-issue. I'll note that at "Average" pace, touringplans estimates only a 10 minute walk from BTMR to Buzz Lightyear's. And, this is a pretty extreme example, going from one corner of the park to diagonally across the park.

We also were dealing with the disabilities and have never been able to book another ride after scanning. I noted that when I read the original @Lugan post but didn’t comment.

 

[Smugpugmug]

The irony is that Disney did have a paid service at Disneyland that worked pretty well and similar to Fastpass. I think it was called MaxPass. We have Universal's disability pass and have used Sea World's in the past. We never had Disney's because fastpass worked well enough for our needs. We haven't been back since covid and the dissolution of FP. I don't know why they can't just use Maxpass instead and charge more for it than they were at Disneyland. It didn't require pre-booking of rides 60 days in advance. It was open to resort and non-resort guests. It didn't sell out, nor require you to wake up at 7am. I feel like Disney (like always) unnecessarily complicated things and made them less attractive for everyone.

Maxpass worked way better than Fastpass+ too. I remember returning to WDW right after using Maxpass at Disneyland and thinking, wow this is way worse lol

 

[Disneychick75]

They could also increase hours. If they were open 8am-2am like they used to be, people with older kids or problems with heat could go later. It would spread out the crowds and open up more slots in genie for rides. People wouldn't feel so rushed. They could also commit to designing more high capacity rides. That doesn't seem to be a priority . I had an imagineer tell me (after Rise opened) that they actually like having people wait in line so that they can appreciate all of the details that Imagineers added to the line.

This would be a common sense solution so we know it probably won't happen.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Because it’s 2024 and everyone is disabled.

Also because while the idea of giving "a bit extra" sounds nice, as soon as you give "a bit extra" it very quickly becomes a "TikTok hack" and encourages more people to abuse it. Which is why Disney seems to have come to the conclusion that the way to go is to offer accommodations that are reasonable but not to go beyond that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I did mention I wanted to specify that Make a Wish is the extreme case, my brother went through that process so I know all about it, what I'm saying is a person with a disability in some degree is a smaller dose over a much longer period of time and yet people are so quick to point the finger and say why do they get more than me. These people suffer every day, it affects the way they live, they have real pains, altered plans, extra costs, mentally/physical/emotional exhaustion. If we as a society can give just a little bit to their day to make it a bit more happy for a few hours, then I think they deserve that. Now on the flip side, there has to be a way to properly rule out the abusers from ruining programs like DAS, because as we're seeing, DAS is significantly getting weaker and weaker from what it was before and people with genuine disabilities are the ones losing out in the long term.

I got what you were saying at its core, still doesn't mean it needs to be a comparison made even for shock value. It minimizes both the reason for the granting of the wish and the complaints/feelings of those who may have an issue with individuals with disabilities getting something different. You're going to find so few people who even think Make a Wish is even in their thoughts when discussing their feelings because most people carry enough generalized compassion for that program.

I don't think it's accurate to say people suffer every day especially in the context of DAS so we as a society should just give a little. Again it depends on the disability and assumptions about the lives of other people who do not qualify for DAS. Qualifying for DAS does not mean everyone is feeling the same thing as someone else with it or that they experience life the same. My aunt who is autistic goes through life with so much optimism and happy go luckiness more than any person I've ever met, lord love her but her concerns are very differerent than most of my family. She isn't suffering. And if you told my family that she was suffering they would be quite offended. She lives on her own, she's held a job, she even got married (though divorced not too too long after). Does she live a different life than her siblings? Yes, but she's not suffering because of that. DAS is about line queuing and what disability someone has may or may not mean lines are an issue.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's just an extreme example being made and pointed out by her; not a model to be mass replicated --which it simply cannot

And as past comparisons have been pointed out to not be the best analogy that fit the bill, IMO of course.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Maxpass worked way better than Fastpass+ too. I remember returning to WDW right after using Maxpass at Disneyland and thinking, wow this is way worse lol

A lot of people wanted MP to go to WDW and I was like "no you don't" lol

It's a bit different now but DLR didn't have every attraction with a FP lane. Pirates for example does now with Genie+ at DLR but didn't have a FP lane at DLR. I've seen the comments about Pirates now going painfully slow now that only one side is standby. I'm sure it's not always that way but I felt it ran fairly smooth being standby only.

I will say they did have issues with MP with some attractions like HM. When we used our pass for that we were outside of the queue in line one time, they just had way too many people in the FP lane at that time. I know they are redoing the HM queue at DLR but that was one where it just wasn't built for something more than paper FP (since you had to physically go to that attraction to get it). Of course WDW has that issue as well with queue space but it was really apparent at DLR in our opinions.

 

[Philsfan77]

Maxpass worked way better than Fastpass+ too. I remember returning to WDW right after using Maxpass at Disneyland and thinking, wow this is way worse lol

To be fair, genie+ at Disneyland, works way better than Genie+ does at World as well. They are different parks, with different crowd trends and DL parks have more attractions to eat up guests within each park, which also contributes to the overall ease of use. I don't know the breakdown, but I would guess that Disneyland's crowd base leans a lot more heavily towards locals and annual pass holders than worlds as well, so less people trying to access that system on a 1 time trip or maximize their experience on a 1 time trip.
Genie+ works perfectly fine at Magic Kingdom, because for the most part, there are enough attractions/shows to eat up guests, but it can be a struggle at the other 3 parks because there aren't enough overall attractions within those parks, especially on a busy day.

There are other factors as well, such as park hours being longer at Land (Disneyland Park specifically is regularly open until midnight) in my opinion that make it hard to say MaxPass would work here (honestly, is MaxPass really any different than what Genie+ is? other than a name change?)

 

[lanejudy]

I did mention I wanted to specify that Make a Wish is the extreme case, my brother went through that process so I know all about it, what I'm saying is a person with a disability in some degree is a smaller dose over a much longer period of time and yet people are so quick to point the finger and say why do they get more than me. These people suffer every day, it affects the way they live, they have real pains, altered plans, extra costs, mentally/physical/emotional exhaustion. If we as a society can give just a little bit to their day to make it a bit more happy for a few hours, then I think they deserve that. Now on the flip side, there has to be a way to properly rule out the abusers from ruining programs like DAS, because as we're seeing, DAS is significantly getting weaker and weaker from what it was before and people with genuine disabilities are the ones losing out in the long term.

Make a Wish really should not be brought into this discussion -- it is a completely separate program, run by a separate organization, requires proof and a lot of medical documentation. It is not DAS or anything comparable to DAS.

I think you may have mentioned you live in Canada. The US laws are different. The ADA only requires "equal" and in no way expects any business to give "more" to "make up for a harder life." People have a harder life in very many aspects and for very many reasons, not just disabilities. I understand the sentiment expressed by many here who have mentioned it, and it is awesome if folks can find a way to do that in their every day life, but DAS is not intended to accommodate for anything other than access to queues/attractions.

 

[nalababybear]

To be fair, genie+ at Disneyland, works way better than Genie+ does at World as well. They are different parks, with different crowd trends and DL parks have more attractions to eat up guests within each park, which also contributes to the overall ease of use. I don't know the breakdown, but I would guess that Disneyland's crowd base leans a lot more heavily towards locals and annual pass holders than worlds as well, so less people trying to access that system on a 1 time trip or maximize their experience on a 1 time trip.
Genie+ works perfectly fine at Magic Kingdom, because for the most part, there are enough attractions/shows to eat up guests, but it can be a struggle at the other 3 parks because there aren't enough overall attractions within those parks, especially on a busy day.

This is very fair assessment on the limits of a program in a theme park that has limited queues in the first place like AK and Epcot.

Make more queues I suppose? They do it for Meet and greets; perhaps other experiences too. Not a fan of it, but something to spread out G+ choices.

 

[Disturbia]

As someone else explained, a NT toddler having a hard time in line is NOT the same thing as a child with a DD having a meltdown. I can't decide if I want to me angry or if I want to laugh at the comparison.



How does ride history or money spent indicate a faker? I'm not seeing the connection.



I 100% agree that it should be done on a case by case basis. I'm hopeful the new process will be able to ask better questions and come up with appropriate accommodations for people who truly need them.



People need to stop being jerks who fake disabilities. But I don't see that happening, unfortunately.



These situations are not the same at all to someone with a DD. I think the only way to truly understand it is to live with it 24/7. I'm not going to go into details because I don't want fakers to use it in their scripts. But you are just very, very wrong.

There's a saying that's something like "if you've met one person with autism, you've met ONE person with autism"...meaning every single person is vastly different. If something worked great for your nephew, that's fantastic. But that doesn't mean it's going to work for every autistic person, or even ANY other autistic person.

And not letting 2 parents every ride together with their kid on vacation?! Ridiculous.

Ride history will show if the DAS user rode one ride after another (easily flag the potential faker and investigate further with their state of the art facial recognition tech).

Track if they utilized ILL$ and how many people were in the group and hours spent on the park vs $$$$ spent outside the park - ADR, resort activities, after hours etc. They probably have value in people paying for a full park day but leaving early and paying for experiences outside the park so they can bring in more park hoppers. People who use DAS like FP+ and then leave after 5-6 rides and then go to HDDR or California Grill or pay for the extra packages to view fireworks from the rooftop are adding to the bottom line.

Why would WDW want to limit these guests if people are still willing to attend and stand in 2 hour lines. Genie+ sells out, parks are crowded, demand is through the roof. They have the advantage. They make money off of both groups, probably less from the standby people.

 

[smartlabelprint]

duplicate

 

[smartlabelprint]

I have 5 individuals between my husband's family and mine 4 with autism on a scale from non-verbal completely to functioning quite well plus a cognitive disorder with anxiety. And if you think their reactions are automatically worse than the individuals in my family who are not neurodivergent or have a cognitive disorder never mind the reactions between the 5 of them whew you'd be assuming so badly wrong. Because they are not all the same even with a developmental disability.

We're talking about behaviors here and that's way different than talking about processing information and conceptually understanding something on a developmentally appropriate level. And we're talking about an environment like Disney.

Two 5 year olds one neurodivergent and one not may conceptually understand and process the inability to ride an attraction at that particular time differently for example. It does not mean their behaviors are going be worse/better than each other. People can speak personally about their own children but when you apply that others (be it neurodivergent or not) it changes the conversation completely, at that moment you are doing the very thing you (general you) get frustrated about.

And TBH I really don't think you are helping not using bias by explaining it in terms of checkers and chess.

These are *not* behaviors! What appears to be behaviors is a child’s form of communication. I agree completely with the others that have posted their description of the differences. You are not the parent of a child with a DD, so you will never fully understand although you have relatives of varying levels. You’re not with them 24/7/365 to see how it all compounds. My family does not fully understand either, and that’s fine, I don’t want anyone to have to live this life.

The difference is in the duration, intensity and frequency of the “behaviors”. They may look the same, but they don’t end the same.

 

[Disturbia]

Didn’t moderators specifically ask not to minimize disabilities and make assumptions?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

(honestly, is MaxPass really any different than what Genie+ is? other than a name change?)

It's a tad different because it co-existed alongside a free paper FP version. The bucket was different for allotments. You could pick up a cancelled MP selection for an attraction that showed no paper FP availability (or availability for later on). Toy Story was one of the rides I did that for picking up times that popped up when the paper FP kiosk would reflect differently.

The main con I had with MP was I used it after using FP+ and at WDW with FP+ I could modify and could select from a time that worked for me. With MP it was still next available with the caveat that you could pick up cancelled passes.

I think having the free paper FP version helped reduce the usage there too because if someone was okay with just getting the next time available and understanding when it was out it was out that was an easy way to park tour without spending additional money. You didn't have to spend money to get on an attraction through the FP lane is a big part of the pro IMO with how DLR had it set up. But the locals aspect is a big part of it as well.

 

[Kgrace1989]

Also because while the idea of giving "a bit extra" sounds nice, as soon as you give "a bit extra" it very quickly becomes a "TikTok hack" and encourages more people to abuse it. Which is why Disney seems to have come to the conclusion that the way to go is to offer accommodations that are reasonable but not to go beyond that.

Exactly! It’s a fine line between being empathetic to others with special needs while not disadvantaging those who do not have special needs… because everyone regardless of needs (or lack of) deserves an equal opportunity to enjoy their vacation.