DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[Disturbia]

Let the games continue..

 

[GoingSince1990]

We don’t know how much this will curb abuse until they start the new process, however. Especially since you certainly can’t always “see” if someone is autistic, especially when they are in a safe place at home.

The single change most likely to curb abuse is to put an end to (for example) parties of 6 getting to go through the LL all together based upon one member of the party obtaining a DAS. If they have to do a rider switch instead, where 4 members of the party have to first ride using the standby line before the DAS holder and one other person are allowed to enter the ride through the LL, that would hugely reduce the incentive to attempt to falsely obtain a DAS in this kind of situation.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Can we pause and reflect on why adults are throwing a fit and salty that Jimmy got to ride Winnie the Pooh twice in a row

Who is doing that?

 

[Jdavidm]

The single change most likely to curb abuse is to put an end to (for example) parties of 6 getting to go through the LL all together based upon one member of the party obtaining a DAS. If they have to do a rider switch instead, where 4 members of the party have to first ride using the standby line before the DAS holder and one other person are allowed to enter the ride through the LL, that would hugely reduce the incentive to attempt to falsely obtain a DAS in this kind of situation.

100% agreed on this. I don’t see a lot of the changes helping with abuse but the limitations on party size certainly will.

I imagine there will still be a lot of arguments over why Billy absolutely must get to ride with all 10 of his cousins even though the ride vehicle doesn’t even hold 10 people. I don’t think Disney is going to mess around with only making exceptions for immediate family now, though.

I just wonder how they’ll handle the situation where someone initially claims only one person in their group of 15 requires an accommodation but when they’re told the DAS Holder can only have 3 people on their pass…suddenly 4 other people require an accommodation as well. I see this with large groups at theme parks in CA all the time, unfortunately. I’m not saying that there aren’t families/groups that have multiple people with a disability, but…it certainly seems suspicious with a lot of these groups that clearly didn’t even research how many would be able to ride with the disabled guest.

 

[Kgrace1989]

Legitimately needing accommodations and legitimately needing DAS are two different things. Disney is finally going back to recognizing that while DAS is indeed needed for some disabilities, it’s overkill for others.

Agreed… and I am not at all suggesting that some disabilities are worse or more deserving of accommodations than others.
But my understanding is that Disney created the DAS system for autism and similar disabilities.. they were sued after discontinuing the previous pass and then in court Disney proved that this new system was reasonable for those with neurological disabilities that needed this sort of assistance.
It seems as though they let it get out of hand by offering it for many other challenges and now that they want to pull it back in, the only way they really can, is to start limiting who gets it-
and I imagine that they are not likely to take it away from the disabilities they argued that they created it for?
Again, not in anyway saying that anyone does or doesn’t deserve accommodations. Just thinking that this might be why they are so careful to announce they ate “preserving it” for those with autism and the like. Since I would think it could open up the potential for more litigation to win a case claiming you designed accommodations for a group and then take it away from that group .

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

I agree that since documentation is not required, then theoretically diagnosis is not required either. Does that mean anyone can self-diagnose to be having whatever condition gets them DAS? Clearly it's not the spirit of DAS. But if I were to describe my neurotypical 4yo, he would certainly qualify for not being able to stand in long lines. Because it's a perfectly normal behavior for a toddler/small child to be overwhelmed by crowds and noise, to have a meltdown and to need to go somewhere quiet. I wish all kids under 4/5 automatically qualified for some kind of accommodation and not be expected to stand in 120 min lines, which is completely not age-appropriate for them. But we all know that's not the purpose of DAS and it shouldn't be used this way.
However, saying medical diagnosis is not a prerequisite opens the door to little kids "needing" DAS. I pay for Genie+ as it's the only way we can do anything at Disney. Many DAS users are complaining about having to pay. Parents of little kids are already living this reality.

Medical diagnoses has never been a prerequisite for DAS though because DAS isn't given based on any diagnosis but rather an individual's needs. Just having an autism diagnosis for example doesn't mean an individual needs accomodations. Some don't, some do. Their diagnosis is completely irrelevant. It's what problems they have that are exacerbated (and to what extreme) by waiting in the physical queue itself.

It sounds like you're saying by not requiring proof of diagnosis, it's basically opening the door for everyone with young children to claim they "need" DAS since lines are understandably tough for all young kids. First, I doubt that has really been an issue since diagnosis has never been required and that's never really been mentioned by Disney, in lawsuits, anywhere that that there's a problem with parents claiming their neurotypical kids need DAS.

Secondly, there is a vast difference between a neurotypical child getting bored/overwhelmed in a line and a child with developmental disabilities or sensory issues having difficulty in a line. Most neurotypical kids have the capacity to learn how to wait, can be distracted with other means (devices, candy, drink, pointing out things in queues, playing little games, etc), aren't triggered by sensory things in the queue, and can be calmed down much quicker.

For many children with DDs or sensory issues, they oftentimes don't have the capacity to learn how to wait, can't be calmed down by things neurotypical kids can, and can feel like the sounds/smells/closeness of people/overstimulation of everything around them is painful (I've heard it described by an adult with sensory issues as feeling like their brain is being stabbed repeatedly with a hot poker while simultaneously being assaulted with the smell of a garbage dump, while also feeling like they're in room filled with lava with the walls closing in). Their "meltdowns" are not the same. Their brains aren't processing things the same way a neurotypical child's is. There isn't usually a quick way to calm them down just by leaving the queue. It takes much longer for them to be able to "reset."

I'm definitely not saying it's easy for families with neurotypical kids. I've been to Disney with my own and it's far from easy, but they certainly don't (even at young ages) have the same difficulties as children with DDs or sensory issues. The lines are difficult and require employing a lot more strategies for young neurotypical kids (snacks, drinks, games, and other ways to distract them), but it doesn't make accessing the lines impossible the way it is for some non-neurotypical kids.

Wonder why the no proof of documents needed and such?

Again, beyond ADA stating documentation cannot be required for accomodations, at the heart of it, accomodations aren't based on diagnosis, but your need for the accomodations. I (and others) posted this earlier, but I'll share it again. Disney previously won a lawsuit with an individual who was denied DAS for anxiety. Even though the individual did have an anxiety diagnosis, it was determined by the court that they did not need accomodations, and therefore, Disney did nothing wrong by denying them a DAS. Now to clarify, that doesn't mean no one with anxiety needs accomodations, just that that particular individual did not. Hence, why proving a diagnosis doesn't mean someone needs accomodations.

 

[Keladry84]

No, they can't cure the disability, but almost every major medical site has stated that through treatment, the symptoms of the disease can be mitigated for many as they age, so it's no guarantee that a disabled autistic child will need the same services as a disabled autistic adult. Some may...some may not.

So, I would expect more scrutiny for all adults, whether they have developmental disabilities or other disabilities.

Autism is not a disease, and it is not ‘symptoms.’ It is a different way of experiencing and processing the world. An autistic adult may have learned more coping skills, but the experience and perception of the world around them doesn’t change because it is how the brain is wired that is causing it. The 5 year old kid melting down in the queue may at age 30 have developed the ability to identify the triggers and skills to be able manage them better (such as leaving a problematic environment before the meltdown), but internally the triggers in the queue feel the same way as they did at age 5. So, DAS is just as necessary at age 30 as it was at 5. The only difference is from how the outsider perceives them based on what they can visibly see. For the autistic person, the internal experience remains the same.

 

[Jdavidm]

Autism is not a disease, and it is not ‘symptoms.’ It is a different way of experiencing and processing the world. An autistic adult may have learned more coping skills, but the experience and perception of the world around them doesn’t change because it is how the brain is wired that is causing it. The 5 year old kid melting down in the queue may at age 30 have developed the ability to identify the triggers and skills to be able manage them better (such as leaving a problematic environment before the meltdown), but internally the triggers in the queue feel the same way as they did at age 5. So, DAS is just as necessary at age 30 as it was at 5. The only difference is from how the outsider perceives them based on what they can visibly see. For the autistic person, the internal experience remains the same.

You explained this so well when I was uncertain how to put it into words, thank you for that. As an adult, I can mask to a certain degree to the point that you may not be able to tell I’m struggling until I reach a certain breaking point.

 

[tinkerbelllacey]

I’m not so sure.

Waiting in the line may trigger something to happen for people with claustrophobia or similar anxieties. But waiting outside the line, separated from some number of party members, won’t be a big deal.

That’s a tougher ask for a lot of developmental disabilities.

Agree

There are people who can go from attraction to attraction, but as lanejudy mentioned, there are also people with co-morbidities they are often dealing with instead of doing other attractions. I need to catheterize my daughter about every 3 hours, so we have always be thinking about what we are doing and how it fits into our clock. We have other care related things, feeding, giving medication, etc.
A lot of scenarios have been thrown out assuming most DAS users are attempting to maximize their number of rides compared to other guests.

Hi Sue, I just wanted to share that my daughter has similar needs.. I also have to cathertize my daughter ( 4 times a day) ,she has numerous medications, she is fed through a J tube via a feeding pump and it has to go slow, meds are through a seperate G tube, she has a seizure disorder, is DeafBlind, non verbal , has multiple disabilities and she also suffers from POTS. I also have to make sure I give her lots of pedialite so we have to take breaks a lot because of her care.We usually only stay in the park in the morning and go back to the hotel to take a break.

 

[Tatebeck]

With that feature, which I have had to use with my young children that are not able to go on the rides, has 1 major drawback, it is essentially saying that if you have an IBD disability, you cannot ride with your entire party and you will be forcing your entire group to go through a normal line process (call it 4 people went in normal queue first for 1 hour for example on the Flight of Na'vi) then the disabled person goes in with 1 other person in LL right after and goes through the ride. So my group of 4 went on the ride, waited an hour or so, plus ride time, now it's my turn and for anyone who's been in the LL line for that ride, knows it will still take about 20-30 minutes to wait and ride and get back to your group. So how is that fair that I have to not only NOT ENJOY the company of my group (the whole point of going with family and friends) and HAVE TO WASTE another 20-30 minutes more than anyone else to ride it right after, multiply that situation throughout a whole day, and so I am not able to have fun with the group (which is emotionally a burden to carry on your party) but I am losing anywhere from 10-30 minutes per ride about 7-8 times in a day having to ride it right after which means they're costing me anywhere from over 1 hour-4 hours. I hope others in my situation get the chance to update the situation before I need to do my registration mid July, because I don't see how that is accommodating my disability fairly; I have no choice but to rely solely on Genie+ and ILLs to even have a chance to ride with my group. And I know Rider Switch is a major drag on time, because last year my 4 year old (3 at the time) couldn't ride 3 rides at EPCOT and it costed us 90 minutes (about 30 minutes each) on re-riding the rides twice in a row to get all our eligible group members to ride those 3 rides once each. In that situation it was fair because we know the height requirements and it's our choice to do that.

It depends on how they handle the DAS rider swap return time, it may not actually cost you extra time. If you don't require a true "swap" (so everyone was going to ride) and the second part of the DAS group is just going to go into the LL line ASAP, they could decide to let you in the LL10-15 minutes earlier than when the standby time would have had the first part of the group riding. This would put you and the first part of the standby group at the merge around the same time and with any luck you may even be able to meet up with them at the merge and all ride the ride around the projected wait time.

My understanding of Disney's goal is not the standby wait times. It's the length of (and longer waits in) the LL queue they are trying to fix. Putting everyone into LL doesn't help. Having fewer guests be eligible for LL helps. That may mean standby waits go up, but time in the LL goes down making for shorter waits -- which is the goal of LL in general (whether DAS, G+ or ILL$).

I think technically, restricting DAS users from waiting in a different ride's standby line during their DAS wait may be able to reduce LL wait times in a roundabout way. Here's the logic:

Disallowing waiting in the second standby line would mean quite a few less guests in standby lines across the park at any time. This means every standby line would be at least a bit shorter (in guest numbers). Then the CMs could increase the ratio of LL to standby guests to keep the same "wait" time for the standby lines. They would step forward slower, but they would have less people in the line so they would have the same actual wait time. The increased ratio of LL guests would then cause the LL to move faster and have more capacity, right?

If the DAS abusers decided to jump ship and go back to waiting in standby if faking DAS isn't worth the hassle, they leave the LLs entirely and go back to the standby queue, then if needed, the CMs can let more standby guests through again

Ex. Non-DAS guests enters BTMR queue at 10, rides BTMR at 11, exits at 11:05. Then they spend 20 mins walking to Buzz (not sure if that's how long it would take, but just an example). Enter standby queue for Buzz at 11:20, ride at 12.

DAS guest requests return time online for BTMR at 10, gets return time of 10:50 (standby of 1 hr minus 10 mins). Gets in line, waits 10 mins (new change seems to indicate a 10 min wait before scheduling next ride) and right before they get on the ride, they are able to schedule return time for Buzz. Standby is 40 mins, so their return time is 11:30. Exits ride at 11:05, spends 20 mins walking to Buzz and it's not 11:25. They wait 5 mins and enter LL queue at 11:30, ride by 11:40.

I thought about including that in my example but wasn't sure if they still allowed that. So yeah, in my example, the DAS party could go straight from BTMR directly to Buzz and into the LL with no wait and get off 5 mins sooner.

DAS can be even faster. You aren't accounting for the most powerful way to use DAS currently. You mention them in effect waiting in 2 lines at once once after making their second selection, but they could have been waiting in 2 lines the whole time. If the DAS user for example felt comfortable with around a 40 minute wait to start, but not an hour, (or if the DAS member was using DAS that they didn't actually need) they could:

DAS guest goes right to Buzz w/ a 40 minute wait at 10:00. Requests a DAS return time in 1 hour at BTMRR at 11:00. Waits in standby line and rides Buzz at 10:40, walks the 15-20 minutes to BTMRR, enters LL immediately and rides by 11:10. Rinse and repeat for double the rides all day by selecting another ride 1 hour plus out and hopping in a standby line shorter than an hour.

THIS is what makes so many people want to use and abuse DAS. By answering some questions and giving the right answers, they are currently able to almost double their rides per day, if that is what they want to do. They needed to cut this possibility out, either by strictly weeding out the fakers and abusers, or making the DAS less lucrative (forcing rider swap with split groups + standby waits for large groups, not allowing waiting in a second line while waiting on a DAS return, etc.) or BOTH.

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

Also, the ADA prohibits businesses from asking for documentation but it doesn't prohibit volunteering the information. Seems like Disney doesn't want to be bothered. Yes, people could cheat but they'd risk more than a permanent ban. Proven fraud charges could result in prison.

But what would the point be for Disney to accept volunteered documents? If they aren't required for all, which they can't be, then volunteering that info doesn't change anything. Someone can't be denied for not providing documentation, likewise, there can't be a greater likelihood of approval with providing documentation as that would discriminate against those who don't provide it (which would be illegal).

Agreed… and I am not at all suggesting that some disabilities are worse or more deserving of accommodations than others.
But my understanding is that Disney created the DAS system for autism and similar disabilities.. they were sued after discontinuing the previous pass and then in court Disney proved that this new system was reasonable for those with neurological disabilities that needed this sort of assistance.
It seems as though they let it get out of hand by offering it for many other challenges and now that they want to pull it back in, the only way they really can, is to start limiting who gets it-
and I imagine that they are not likely to take it away from the disabilities they argued that they created it for?
Again, not in anyway saying that anyone does or doesn’t deserve accommodations. Just thinking that this might be why they are so careful to announce they ate “preserving it” for those with autism and the like. Since I would think it could open up the potential for more litigation to win a case claiming you designed accommodations for a group and then take it away from that group .

Going along with that, the needs of individuals with autism and DDs (not all individuals with those diagnoses, but those that require accomodations) can't usually be accommodated in other ways. I think a big part of this change is trying to find other ways to accommodate people rather than just giving DAS to anyone who needs accomodations. Many (not all-I'm not looking for a debate on why anyone feels they can't be accommodated in other ways) of those currently receiving DAS would be able to be accommodated with things like the leave the line pass or a rider swap. I imagine that Disney has determined that for most of their DAS users with issues related to autism/DDs cannot be accommodated in any other way, but most (again, not all) DAS users with other issues can be. That may factor into why they listed those specifically.

 

[Kgrace1989]

But what would the point be for Disney to accept volunteered documents? If they aren't required for all, which they can't be, then volunteering that info doesn't change anything. Someone can't be denied for not providing documentation, likewise, there can't be a greater likelihood of approval with providing documentation as that would discriminate against those who don't provide it (which would be illegal).

Going along with that, the needs of individuals with autism and DDs (not all individuals with those diagnoses, but those that require accomodations) can't usually be accommodated in other ways. I think a big part of this change is trying to find other ways to accommodate people rather than just giving DAS to anyone who needs accomodations. Many (not all-I'm not looking for a debate on why anyone feels they can't be accommodated in other ways) of those currently receiving DAS would be able to be accommodated with things like the leave the line pass or a rider swap. I imagine that Disney has determined that for most of their DAS users with issues related to autism/DDs cannot be accommodated in any other way, but most (again, not all) DAS users with other issues can be. That may factor into why they listed those specifically.

I agree. And honestly I have a relative that works for Disney (not anyone high on the ladder there or anything) but my understanding is that because the DAS has to be treated as a standby guest getting in line… they have to provide everyone who has a DAS a return to ride time - even if a ton of other DAS guests have just approached them for a time (or they had gotten a time on the app) so that means lots of people coming back to the LL at the same time…
They can’t limit it like they can with Genie + . With genie the time slot only offers so many returns and then it’s closed. But they have no control over that with DAS… and my understanding is Disney wants to be able to offer some guests the ability in the future to pre schedule some genie + attractions (because they are getting a lot of complaints about guest getting offered genie times that conflict with dinning reservations and other planned activities) but they can’t do that until they have better control over who is using the LL and when

 

[LongLiveRafiki]

DAS can be even faster. You aren't accounting for the most powerful way to use DAS currently. You mention them in effect waiting in 2 lines at once once after making their second selection, but they could have been waiting in 2 lines the whole time. If the DAS user for example felt comfortable with around a 40 minute wait to start, but not an hour, (or if the DAS member was using DAS that they didn't actually need) they could:

DAS guest goes right to Buzz w/ a 40 minute wait at 10:00. Requests a DAS return time in 1 hour at BTMRR at 11:00. Waits in standby line and rides Buzz at 10:40, walks the 15-20 minutes to BTMRR, enters LL immediately and rides by 11:10. Rinse and repeat for double the rides all day by selecting another ride 1 hour plus out and hopping in a standby line shorter than an hour.

THIS is what makes so many people want to use and abuse DAS. By answering some questions and giving the right answers, they are currently able to almost double their rides per day, if that is what they want to do. They needed to cut this possibility out, either by strictly weeding out the fakers and abusers, or making the DAS less lucrative (forcing rider swap with split groups + standby waits for large groups, not allowing waiting in a second line while waiting on a DAS return, etc.) or BOTH.

Oh, absolutely. I specifically didn't mention that because the poster I was responding to was talking about how if Disney eliminated the current ability to ride other rides while waiting for a DAS return, they should also ensure that posted standby wait times aren't inflated (as many claim they are) to be fair to DAS users. It seemed their argument was that DAS holders are already waiting longer than regular guests to access rides due to inflated standby waits times, so being able to ride other things while waiting for DAS wait time helped to even that out.

Ex. BTMR has a posted wait time of an hour, DAS guest gets 50 minute return time to compensate for expected 10 minutes in LL. But if the standby wait in reality isn't an hour, but 45 mins, then perceivably the guest in standby could make it through the attraction 15 mins faster than the guest with DAS.

So it seemed the poster I was responding to was saying that it wouldn't be fair to take away a DAS user's access to riding other rides during their wait unless they stopped inflating standby wait times as inflated standby waits make a DAS user wait longer for a ride than a regular guests. I was giving an example that if they eliminated the ability for DAS users to ride other things and fixed the posted standby wait times, a DAS user could *perceivably* get through lines quicker than a regular guest.

 

[nalababybear]

Autism is not a disease, and it is not ‘symptoms.’ It is a different way of experiencing and processing the world. An autistic adult may have learned more coping skills, but the experience and perception of the world around them doesn’t change because it is how the brain is wired that is causing it. The 5 year old kid melting down in the queue may at age 30 have developed the ability to identify the triggers and skills to be able manage them better (such as leaving a problematic environment before the meltdown), but internally the triggers in the queue feel the same way as they did at age 5. So, DAS is just as necessary at age 30 as it was at 5. The only difference is from how the outsider perceives them based on what they can visibly see. For the autistic person, the internal experience remains the same.

Well stated.

But what would the point be for Disney to accept volunteered documents? If they aren't required for all, which they can't be, then volunteering that info doesn't change anything. Someone can't be denied for not providing documentation, likewise, there can't be a greater likelihood of approval with providing documentation as that would discriminate against those who don't provide it (which would be illegal).

Going along with that, the needs of individuals with autism and DDs (not all individuals with those diagnoses, but those that require accomodations) can't usually be accommodated in other ways. I think a big part of this change is trying to find other ways to accommodate people rather than just giving DAS to anyone who needs accomodations. Many (not all-I'm not looking for a debate on why anyone feels they can't be accommodated in other ways) of those currently receiving DAS would be able to be accommodated with things like the leave the line pass or a rider swap. I imagine that Disney has determined that for most of their DAS users with issues related to autism/DDs cannot be accommodated in any other way, but most (again, not all) DAS users with other issues can be. That may factor into why they listed those specifically.

Once one accepts patient identifying sensitive information, as a corporation I'm sure there will be higher standards, training, and levels of protection needed for said information. Disney doesn't want that. They have been very clear on this stance even back to GAC days. It's Edna's 'no capes' level of 'no documents'.

Like many stating over again -- a modernized digital version of GAC would be an excellent solution - we don't know what Disney is unveiling aside a return to queue and expanded Rider Swap.

As to the abuse and optimization of DAS -- sure, good math exercise. I would bet that the majority of DAS holders do not stay over 6 hours at the park on any given day.

 

[Yinn]

I agree. And honestly I have a relative that works for Disney (not anyone high on the ladder there or anything) but my understanding is that because the DAS has to be treated as a standby guest getting in line… they have to provide everyone who has a DAS a return to ride time - even if a ton of other DAS guests have just approached them for a time (or they had gotten a time on the app) so that means lots of people coming back to the LL at the same time…
They can’t limit it like they can with Genie + . With genie the time slot only offers so many returns and then it’s closed. But they have no control over that with DAS… and my understanding is Disney wants to be able to offer some guests the ability in the future to pre schedule some genie + attractions (because they are getting a lot of complaints about guest getting offered genie times that conflict with dinning reservations and other planned activities) but they can’t do that until they have better control over who is using the LL and when

This, and part of the problem currently is that between LL, DAS, and RS, you can come back to an absurdly long line. We have had to actually leave the LL line and burn a return time after waiting nearly 30 min and needed to attend to the reason we had DAS in the first place.

That said, DAS needs a revamp. Not necessarily in the approach of limited audience like they may be doing. But in what DAS actually offers, the number of ways in which it can be abused currently is mind boggling. I won’t go into details and enable the abuse but we have certainly noticed where certain actions would enable a distinct advantage using DAS rather than an alternate. And as users of DAS we do think it’s unfair to nonDAS and should be fixed.

 

[Tatebeck]

Oh, absolutely. I specifically didn't mention that because the poster I was responding to was talking about how if Disney eliminated the current ability to ride other rides while waiting for a DAS return, they should also ensure that posted standby wait times aren't inflated (as many claim they are) to be fair to DAS users. It seemed their argument was that DAS holders are already waiting longer than regular guests to access rides due to inflated standby waits times, so being able to ride other things while waiting for DAS wait time helped to even that out.

Ex. BTMR has a posted wait time of an hour, DAS guest gets 50 minute return time to compensate for expected 10 minutes in LL. But if the standby wait in reality isn't an hour, but 45 mins, then perceivably the guest in standby could make it through the attraction 15 mins faster than the guest with DAS.

So it seemed the poster I was responding to was saying that it wouldn't be fair to take away a DAS user's access to riding other rides during their wait unless they stopped inflating standby wait times as inflated standby waits make a DAS user wait longer for a ride than a regular guests. I was giving an example that if they eliminated the ability for DAS users to ride other things and fixed the posted standby wait times, a DAS user could *perceivably* get through lines quicker than a regular guest.

Okay, that makes sense. As long as the wait times are on average fairly correct, I don't know if they will need to adjust them or not, it really depends on what the actual data says. There is a lot of talk about wait times being inflated, and it does seem that way at times (Especially late at night, which is the time I have noticed it usually a much shorter wait than posted). But there are other things which they may be accounting for.

I had both overestimated and underestimated wait times on my last trip, but I hear more people say they are overestimated. I think that is true when everything goes right. When the ride doesn't go down I feel my waits have more often than not had a shorter than advertised wait. But when rides go down? I feel we as guests sometimes can't count a lost ride as time waited in line for that ride, because it doesn't make sense if we didn't get to ride it. But over the whole day if it comes back up or over multiple visits it can make the average wait go up. They don't know when a ride will go down, so maybe they are accounting for it. If I ride Pirates one day and the wait time is 30 minutes but the wait was actually 15, but then I go to ride it again, the wait time is still 30 minutes, but I wait 15 minutes and the ride goes down and I leave line? I technically waited 30 minutes and only rode once. A 30 minute average. Does anyone really know if they include buffers like this for ride downtime? The data would decide what they would need to do with DAS timing if they remove the second line waiting ability.

If they are accounting for the average number of short downtimes for a ride during the day or baking in the possibility of a long delay, the average wait times could actually be accurate. If a ride goes down for 10 minutes during a standby queue wait, they are delayed by 10 minutes (or more if the LL gets backed up) If that ride goes down for 10 minutes during a DAS return wait but gets back up and running before their wait is up, they get to hop in LL on time and their wait is fairly unaffected. If it goes down for a long time, the standby guest leaves line and their wait is wasted. If it goes down and is down during the DAS user's return window, they may get one of the passes that allows them to return to that LL (or maybe a different ride's LL) any time later once it is back up and could allow them to book another DAS return time at that point. As long as that ride comes back up that day or they use a pass at a different ride, that DAS user is somewhat insulated from rides going down. The standby guest is not.

 

[lynzi2004]

Here’s my question…if several DAS users request a return time, does the standby wait time go up?! Or is it only if people are physically standing in the line? Bc to me that has ramifications to both the standby line and the lightening lane. If 10 parties of DAS (currently 6 people) all request a return time for 10am at big thunder that is the equivalent of 60 people getting in line right before you. Is the standby time being adjusted to account for those 60 people who will then go through the lightening lane before you? Just something to think about!

 

[DVCjj]

I find it totally unfair to have Autism-like maladies as the only acceptable DAS category.

I think Disney is setting themselves up for opening a can of worms. And I hope they are. There HAS to be a better way than only one acceptable problem.

 

[Kgrace1989]

Limiting the number of DAS uses per day outright or doubling the wait time would
most likely violate the ADA.

Yes, that would be illegal … because the idea of the DAS is that it acts as a way for the guest to enter the standby line in a way that accommodates their disability.
So to say “because you are disabled we are limiting you to 5 attractions per day” would be a violation. The idea is that they have to wait the same amount of time as all the other guests, so they should be able to use it as many times as they can just like a non DAS guest doesn’t have a limit of attractions.
And certainly doubling the wait would not be legal since that is punishing the DAS guest for using an accommodation because of their disability.
Now that said….
I do think it would be legal to say that a guest using DAS could not enter another attraction while holding a DAS return time (unless of course the DAS guest was using the paid Genie + because that is open to anyone to purchase so guests with disabilities could use both the DAS to assist them and buy Genie to help as well).
And please note, I’m not at all saying they should make a rule that DAS guests can’t go on other attractions while waiting for their return time.. I’m just saying I think it is something that could be implemented legally since the standby line guests are not able to do another attraction while in line and DAS is intended to act as though the guest is standing in the regular line.

 

[Kgrace1989]

Here’s my question…if several DAS users request a return time, does the standby wait time go up?! Or is it only if people are physically standing in the line? Bc to me that has ramifications to both the standby line and the lightening lane. If 10 parties of DAS (currently 6 people) all request a return time for 10am at big thunder that is the equivalent of 60 people getting in line right before you. Is the standby time being adjusted to account for those 60 people who will then go through the lightening lane before you? Just something to think about!

Yes, and my understanding is that is the challenge that Disney is grappling with. Because the DAS is the equivalent of a non DAS guest entering the standby line… Disney can’t regulate who or how many can get a time to return at any given time slot…
So you are right .. no matter how many guests ask for a return time to a ride at 10 am.. Disney has to give it to them, the same way they couldn’t block off the standby line. Which means unlike genie + where only a set number of riders per time slot can return… the DAS is endless and has to allow anyone with a pass to get a time to come back even if it’s 100 people all coming back at the same time.
Obviously that is simply not sustainable, which is why they are looking for other options to meet some guests needs.