car pools..........I don't get it

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by crusader, Apr 1, 2003.

  1. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    After reading and re-reading the carpools defined categories I have to admit I don't get it.

    The veterans on this board continually refer to themselves in this regard yet after reading the definitions compared to the varying views expressed, I question the relativity.

    Does anyone have the original link which better interprets this categorization?

    If I've opened pandora's box I apologize.
     
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  3. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

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    Crusader - try this link. This was probably one of the earliest versions of the carpool concept. It was more directly tied to the Magic of WDW. The definitions that Mr. Curling established led to discussions getting tied up in many tangents (and disagreements and misunderstandings) since most people, even the most ardent car 3 person, believes that there is still Magic, but were more concerned with the direction that Disney was heading in. As such, the mighty froze Head proposed the definitions that exist today. These new definitions make it easier ( :crazy: ) as we can all agree that there is Magic, usually plenty of old Magic and some new, and discuss the direction of Disney and whether or not new Magic is being created or will continue to be created.

    Kind of complicated, huh :confused: ;).

    Anyway, look at this thread and see what you think.

    http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58576&highlight=carpool

    Under the old definitions I would still be in car #1. Under the new definitions I currently sit in car #2.
     
  4. d-r

    d-r <font color=red>l|ll|||ll||ll||<font color=purple>

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    Honestly, I don't want to sound like a contrarian, but I've been tired of those car pools for some time now. It just seems artificial to me to categorize like that - for me personally, there are things that I love and feel positive about, things that I am disappointed about, things that I am an angry about, etc. But I don't think I really fit into a disrete orthogonal sort of category - but that's just me. The benefit is that you get a sort of short hand for saying points of view, I guess.

    DR
     
  5. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

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    Bingo! I believe that was the intent. I also think it was supposed to be a fun way of discussing things. Seems as though it accomplished that, but not without a few bumps in the proverbial road ;). Of course, the carpools originated before I began my tenure iin ernest on the rumors board so others may be able to provide more history.
     
  6. BRERALEX

    BRERALEX That's a wrap.

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    whats great was when Gcurliong had a calling all cars thread to dismantle the use of the carslololoolololol hahahahahahahahahaha its your baby watch it grow.lololo :D
     
  7. All Aboard

    All Aboard Por favor mantengan se alejado de las puertas

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    That thread hadn't dropped into DIS oblivion yet? So goes any hope of abandoning Carisms. Stop laughing Alex.
     
  8. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    Thanks Mr. Kidds -

    Since Magic is a premise, I now understand the literal text.

    This is exactly where I was leaning! There is one underlying principle which applies to just about everyone on these boards - they are attracted to Disney. Some really torment themselves with the idea of loving something they cannot understand. If you ask me, they're all in the same car sitting next to one another heading to the same party. Some will have a blast others will be miserable.
     
  9. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

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    Nah, I'd say they all have a blast at he party. It is just that some people have a 'hangover' the next day.

    It's like (insert car #3 occupant) and I go to the party. We have a great time. We both get loaded and have a lot of fun. The next day I recount stories of the fun things that happened at the party while the (insert car #3 occupant) has a headache and tells everyone how bad the beer was, or how there wasn't enough food, or how they didn't have this or that thing that was at the party last year, or how the host let his house get run down, or..................., or................... or.................... ;).
     
  10. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    .......and they can't find their wallet!
     
  11. raidermatt

    raidermatt Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression

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    Of course you should continue to the logical conclusion, which is that eventually, after 5 or 10 more Mike parties, the beer IS skunky, the only food served is a bag of Funyons, last years music is replaced by the best of New Kids on the Block, the house reaks of an unidentifiable odor, and............................., and......................,;)

    Mike complains that nobody shows up anymore, so he just stops having parties, and used the dough for a new self-portrait.

    If we like Mike, or worse yet, own stock in him, we want to see his parties continue to be "the bomb", so we try to get him to change things, or to let somebody else take over the parties.

    You don't have to actually slam into a brick wall to know you are going in the wrong direction.

    ;)
     
  12. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    Matt - you must be the guy with the hangover. I thought you were in car 1?

    You forgot that everyone keeps going year after year because Mike's the biggest party in town! Who cares about the beer we're there to have a blast!
     
  13. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    You care about the beer because several years ago he was serving imports and exclusive labels for domestic beer prices. Today he is serving it watered down for imported prices. And soooo, you find that you worry a lot about next year's party.

    Sir Matt is the official 'shotgun' rider of car #3!! And unless I miss my guess I think I caught Mr. Kidds skitching on the rear bumper last winter!!!;)
     
  14. airlarry!

    airlarry! Did you know some ferns date back to Prehistoric t

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    Has someone kidnapped M. DisneyKidds account? ;) ;)

    That is about the third or fourth post in a row that I agree with you on. Either you are getting closer to my navigator spot in Car 3, or I'm getting positive vibes from Ei$ner that he has had a complete Walt transfusion of his blood. ;)

    Or maybe, just maybe after all this talk and debate and whatnot, we are all understanding each other's POV a little better.
    Are you sure it is the car 3'ers that have the hangover? Maybe it is a pixie-dust-induced hangover from the Car 1 POV? :) We're the ones clear-headed remembering how much fun it used to be...and the Car 1'ers are swallowing Mike's aspirin trying to forget the bad stuff they saw...
     
  15. Walt's Frozen Head

    Walt's Frozen Head DIS Veteran<br><font color="blue">A comfortable 32

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    Okay, the deal with the cars.

    The carpool analogy grew from an unprovoked smart@$$ crack I made concerning the distinguished DisDuck, many moons ago (it remains the only post for which I've felt it necessary to post an apology). The basis of the analogy was that we were all going to WDW, but we divided into cars based on our feelings about the company's direction and recent performance. Greg posted a poll with three generalizations (it was assumed at the time that Car #4 would not have any occupants who would bother to post, although I embarassingly fit that description, myself, at this point) about our "feelings" concerning Disney's recent creation of Magic; it was supposed to be a shorthand to convey one's Disney ideology.

    Over time, the Cars took on less "hard" meanings, ultimately degenerating into little more than cheers or slurs. The defintions pinned near the top of the Rumors board were my ad hoc attempt to let some newer folks know what "the board" was thinking about, back when some of us had originally picked our cars... if the labels were going to be of any use we really all needed to be on the same page about what they meant.

    I really don't think it had any effect on how the terms were used... and at this point, some people picked cars quite a while ago... it can be fun to join in on the "my Car's dad can beat up your Car's dad" shenanigans, but no, the Car definitions as posted above are actually only valid for a few creaky old-timers, and the designations as they are actually used on this board have no broadly agreed-upon meaning.

    -WFH
     
  16. DVC-Landbaron

    DVC-Landbaron What Would Walt Do?

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    I don't remember the apology, but I do clearly recall that you posted it in my defense. And I also remember that it was one of the first times that I felt comforted that someone else felt the same way I that I did!!

    If I didn't mention it at the time, thanks!! And if I did, well - Thank you again!!



    PS: I do miss the Duck, though. It was certainly touch and go in the beginning, but afterwards we had a good friendship going. Has anyone heard from him?
     
  17. crusader

    crusader calls the faithful to their knees

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    Thank you. This is pretty much what I had suspected. "Creaky old-timers" huh? Man - I hope not!

    Not sure what happened with the DisDuck but I hope the wounds weren't permanent.

    No way. I think you have this backwards. The true disney lover in "car 1" as you put it hardly reflects on the bad at all. It's a trip with nothing but positives no matter what is thrown out there. Could be due to low expectations or placing far less importance on all the "stuff". There is no hangover. The party was great.

    The people I do not place in this category are the "smilers" overdressed, overpriced, overindulgent and insincere about their experience. Similar to a want-a-be. They didn't really have a great time but they'll sensationalize everything in justification. Problem is no matter how you dress yourself up you cannot become something you aren't. There are no roots to speak of for whatever reason.

    "Car 3" is quite unique. They claim they used to love this party. So why can't they turn down that invite every year? I think despite all the changes deep down they still do. To me they really aren't in a different car they just inserted a level of expectation which makes everything more complicated as they got older. Trips are more reflective oriented now (similar to a reunion) vs. uninhibited. This approach is a guarantee for disappointment.
     
  18. DisneyKidds

    DisneyKidds <font color=green>The TF thanks DisneyKidds for mo

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    Nope, I'm still the master of my e-domain :crazy:.
    Most likely. I have always maintained that the degrees of separation between us all are a lot narrower than most would think after reading most of our 'discussions' ;).
    I don't know about you, but when I have a hangover I am usually a little unhappy, perhaps a bit crancky, and I regret some of the things I might have done/seen at the party. Sure, if someone pushes me I can recall the fun I had and laugh a bit, but my head hurts so much that I try not to do it. That's not where I'm at after my Disney vacations ;).
    I wouldn't call that a hangover. Maybe it is just that we drank so much at the party that we are still loaded the next day, week, month...............If the party can accomplish that it must have been pretty amazing, even if they didn't serve the same beer they did last year. Maybe the Magic for some is not unlike certain "illegal substances", but this one puts you on a good 'trip' that never ends?
    Or maybe those things weren't as 'bad' as those who have the real hangovers saw them :).
     
  19. Walt's Frozen Head

    Walt's Frozen Head DIS Veteran<br><font color="blue">A comfortable 32

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    That's one reason the Car Analogy fails to work widely. To a certain extent, the Cars represent personality types as much as feelings towards WDW. I suspect that the Car #3 mindset is difficult to "step into," for other mindsets... that's why I so often interject that Cars 1 through 3 are all still going to WDW: there seems to be the feeling among some others that if you are going to WDW, you should damn well keep your mouth shut and smile, like everybody else. Some people can't comprehend that one can list all the ways a company has declined, all the special factors their products have lost, and still come to the conclusion that that company and those products are one's best options, so far.

    If the carpools were about the War in Iraq, all the Cars would be praying for a swift satisfying end to the War with minimal casualities on all fronts... but Car #1 would be saying "this was a good idea for the US the smooths the road," Car #2 would be saying "this was a good idea for the US, but could cause us more problems down the road," and Car #3 would be saying "this was a bad idea for the US because it will very likely lead to worse problem down the road."

    Ultimately, Car #1 would be telling Car #3 to "love it or leave it," and Car #3 would be calling Car #1 a bunch of political "puppets."

    Pretty much the same dynamic we've got, here.

    The topic itself isn't really devisive (because the topic is not "should we go to war," anymore, we're at war. Every sane human being wants this over soon and safe... we're all in the same carpool, on that scope: just like the cars are all headed to Disney), it's our way of parsing the relevant data through our individual cognitive interpreters that gives us our ordinaled convoy.

    Beyond that, it's not so clear as you imply that Car #3 is a final destination, rather than the place you wait for a couple years until something finally decimates the discs on your particular camel. I'm pretty sure HB2K joins me in being a former Car #3 inhabitant, who, at this point, truly does find themselves in Car #4: for the first time since I've been paying for my own vacations, I do not have a trip to WDW planned.

    Sometimes when I make a joke like that, I forget that this ID hasn't been on the boards as long as I have. The "creaky old-timer" crack was aimed squarely back at myself and those who have been on the boards since the 90's sometime, and have had the "What's this Carpool thing all about?" discussion more than a few times already. Those are the only folks who are going to really identify with the definitions as they're posted on the front page.

    I agree with you for a while, then I don't.

    Personally, I think substituting a more concrete expectation from Disney makes everything simpler than if I rely only on "how much fun I had," which depends only partially (and likely, secondarily) on Disney's contribution to the equation. By examining how the project was executed, you can get an idea for how the company is doing without adding your own prejudices about what is fun or entertaining... or how cute the li'l crusaders look spitting up on the Tea Cups.

    If you look the project execution, it's clear to see that Splash Mountain and Tower of Terror were the last things in WDW built "right," even though I happen to enjoy riding Rock 'n' Roller Coaster a helluva lot more than either of the others.

    Some people didn't pick Cars based on the question "Can you have fun at WDW," and that's what some Car #1 folks appear to believe was always the intention. So the Cars aren't useful for meaningful discussion.

    See, that's both an unfair generalization (some Car 3ers have begun to turn it down... it's just that officially makes them Car #4, now...) and it treads dangerously close to making judgements and editorials on the personal decisions of others about their own lives. It is not for you to deem all Car #3 members pitiful junkies who would go cold turkey if they just had the will power or the clarity of thought.

    Oh, I agree. If you go to WDW with no expectations at all, you won't be disappointed. That's a valid way to live life, but it is not the only valid way. Some prefer a more structured framework for their lives.

    Or perhaps you knew all that... and the quote was just your velvet-gloved way of saying "love it or leave it," in the end?

    Are you suggesting a division of Car #1... sincere and insincere? I think I can save you the trouble of posting a poll...

    -WFH
     
  20. All Aboard

    All Aboard Por favor mantengan se alejado de las puertas

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    The answer to that question is likely why I put myself in Car #2. While I am deeply concerned about direction and philosophy and am sure that the wrong leadership is in place, I continue to go and go and go. I continue to be entertained and I continue to love the place. There's more than enough critical mass of things produced up to 1994 to keep me happy. And, every now and again, an entertainment nugget or two, a great fireworks display or a very entertaining parade comes my way that I find to be chock full of "Disney" And, in the case of Early Entry, they realized what a boneheaded decision it was to cut it.

    That's what keeps me out of Car #3. When you find me there, it's because my enjoyment is really beginning to wane. Then I will likely start to scale back on my time at WDW.

    But, what keeps me out of Car #1. Well, for starters, I haven't been "wowwed" by a new major attraction in 8+ years. WDW's biggest attempts (Dinosaur, Kali, Test Track) have fallen short of what I have been conditioned by THEM to expect. Micromanagement of operating hours, constantly tinkering and adjusting (almost always downward - Future World closing at 6pm in April, how absurd!) are a big thorn in my side and directly impact my enjoyment. And, lastly, the recent trend of shuttering attractions with no plans for replacement really stinks. 20,000 leagues basically started the trend. I'm thinking very hard, but cannot remember this happening much in the past, if ever. Now we've lost 20k and the skyway, two tomorrowland attractions only open when MK is wall to wall packed, two show venues rest empty at the Studios, Diamond Horseshoe is gone with only rumors of something coming... No where near enough to keep me from returning, but most assuredly enough to keep me out of Car #1.
     
  21. raidermatt

    raidermatt Beware of the dark side. Anger...fear...aggression

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    My 2 cents...

    Based on the definitions as they currently stand, the classifications are all about WDW's direction, not where it currently stands.

    The relative "vacation values" are different for each person, but the decision about whether or not to go to WDW is based on how WDW ranks versus whatever other destination is competing for that persons business. The decision is NOT based on a comparison to the WDW (or DL, whatever) of the past.

    However, when it comes to a decision on which "car" to choose, whether WDW is better than the competition becomes of much less importance. Possibly even irrelevant. Instead, the focus is on the direction of the company. The comparison IS to the WDW of the past.

    A car 1'er sees no problem with this direction. Just as wonderful as ever. No reason to even question going to WDW.

    A car 2'er sees some problem with the direction, but views it as a normal down-cycle, or sees something that makes them think improvement is on the horizon. Generally, these folks think a change at the top is needed, and are reasonably confident that the new regime will be significantly better than the current regime. Recognizes WDW may not be as great as it once was, but still sees it as better than alternative destinations.

    A car 3'er definitely sees problems with the direction, and finds very little to indicate improvement is imminent. Definitely thinks a change at the top is needed, but is not confident it is forthcoming and/or does not see evidence that convinces them the change will definitely be for the good. Definitely thinks WDW has declined, but still sees it as better than alternative destinations.

    A car 4'er doesn't like the direction, and has crossed the line. Alternative destinations are now more appealling. Has either stopped going to WDW, or greatly reduced their frequency.

    Of course, these are all subsets of the group made up of one-time and/or current WDW fans. In the general population, you have car 5'ers (never went, never will), but they probably aren't reading this stuff.

    Hopefully that helps with understanding...
     

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