1. Follow the DIS on Instagram! www.instagram.com/the.dis

Bye-bye Under 3 Free!!!

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by bdklein, May 8, 2013.

  1. ChipnDale79

    ChipnDale79 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    368
    Here's my 2 cents on the ever increasing Disney vacation and this board. It seems to me that everything today is pro business, pro money, and pro bottom line, it's the world we live in today. Consumers have stopped demanding more for their money and will fork over cash for just about anything. By doing so, we have allowed business to do less and charge more.

    For some odd reason we are letting companies get away with taking more and giving us less, for some odd reason we think that's ok. And for some, if you question that, then all of a sudden you're "anti business" and on this board, almost "anti Disney". Why is not ok to question where our money is going?

    An example, my wife and I went on our honeymoon to WDW in 2008, we looked at booking the same exact trip at the exact same time this year for our 5 year Anniversary. Keep in mind when this was priced out it was around the same time that Disney released it's annual report and noted that hotel room occupancy at his Orlando hotels were flat. From 2008-2012 when our economy went through a horrible recession, a WDW vacation increased in price a little more than 20%. We aren't going this year simply because of that, and this report of increased revenues does not include hotel occupancy rates. I'd like to know the percent increase of that, if its minimal or flat, then it tells me that Disney's cost is in fact keeping people away.

    I wonder how much Carsland and Disney's rolling back promotions is a part of the increase in revenues.

    Point is, I do think Disney is missing out on more revenue because of their high prices.
     
  2. Avatar

    Google AdSense Guest Advertisement


    to hide this advert.
  3. tjkraz

    tjkraz <img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,306
    That's a pretty broad characterization of millions of consumers, all with a much more intricate take on this (and other) businesses.

    Personally, I tend to be a realist. I'm not defending Disney's actions, rather I understand the nature of their decisions and expect them to occur. Many moons ago I took just enough college business classes to understand that when times are tough, businesses discount and work hard to bring in customers. When times are good, prices go up and discounts evaporate.

    The stock market is over 15,000. Last month's jobs report was better than anyone expected. Most people have stable employment and they are spending money.


    And I bet many other prices have gone up by similar rates. I still remember buying Christmas presents for thirty and forty cents on the dollar in 2008 because retailer were desperate to move inventory and meet their sales projections.

    The recession began in December 2007. Throughout '08 the housing market was in a tailspin and the stock market crashed in the fall of that year.

    Disney was desperate to get guests into its parks by that time. The 2008 prices you paid were heavily discounted. Now the discounts are much lower and prices have also increased.

    You aren't comparing 2008 rack rates with 2013 rack rates...you're comparing '08 with heavy discounting vs. '13 with more moderate discounting.

    Hotel occupancy is around 80% and it has been relatively flat in recent years. However when you factor in the recent addition of 2000 rooms at Art of Animation, overall hotel guest numbers at WDW are up.

    But the hotel occupancy is only a small piece of the pie. Tens-of-millions of park guests do not stay in Disney hotels. Those people are still paying for park tickets, food, souvenirs, etc. Park admission--which is always going up in price--is the big ticket.

    Revenue but not necessarily profit. Any reduction in price eats directly into the profits. Disney has to sell more units just to equal what they would have made with higher prices.

    Pop Century has 2880 rooms with an average nightly rate of about $150. Let's be aggressive and assume that about 2/3 of that $150 is profit.

    At 80% occupancy, Disney's profits could look something like this:

    2880 rooms x 365 nights x .80 occupancy x $100 profit = $84 million profit per year

    Now, let's assume the room rate is discounted by $50 and occupancy rises to 100%. Disney still has the same overhead expenses: front desk, housekeeping, theme park buses, utilities, maintenance, landscaping, property taxes, etc. The fee reduction comes right off of the profits.

    2880 rooms x 365 nights x 1.00 occupancy x $50 profit = $52 million profit per year.

    Even with more guests in the hotel, Disney made less money because the discounting directly impacts the amount they pocket from each transaction.
     
  4. LisaRae87

    LisaRae87 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    Ok - speaking from experience here..

    In December, my friend and I took my TWO YEAR OLD daughter for the Stitch breakfast at Ohana.. they knew she was two because it said so on the reservation and we discussed it with our server on the day of. We WERE charged for her meal. It was only like $8 or $9, I forget exactly how much but it wasn't a lot so we didn't bother to say anything..

    But, we went to Crystal Palace in February when we were there for the Princess 1/2 weekend and we WERE NOT charged for my daughter who is still two (three in July)..

    Not sure why this happened since we didn't say anything about it and not sure if it was something they were "trying out" for the holiday season or if that is regular practice during the holidays. It was my first ever character meal so I wasn't sure about all of that.

    I didn't want to be one of those people breaking the rule and ending up ruining it for everyone so we decided to have a character breakfast for my daughter's 3rd birthday a week before she actually turns 3 so that no rules are broken and she will still have a great time. Even if I have to pay the $8 or $9 it is still less than an actual kids price.

    Not saying I agree or disagree with them doing it - just saying that it actually happened to me, so even though your "friend" says you misinterpreted them - you may have been on to something.

    Now what I don't like is that a 3 year old has to pay the same price as an adult for any type of pass, which is partially why I let my seasonal pass expire. I can't afford that cost to double once she turns 3 seeing as I am a single mom and have no help other than mandated child support (which doesn't go very far).. Saving my change now to hopefully put down a decent down payment on 2 passes by October :)
     
  5. dadddio

    dadddio DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,215
    I'm a Disney stockholder. Your money went to me.

    Thankyouverymuch.
     
  6. dadddio

    dadddio DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,215
    Did you order anything for your child at Ohana or did she merely eat the regular 'family style' table service offerings?

    As I understand it, at 'family style' and buffet restaurants, kids under three get their own plate and drink and can eat any of the regular offerings. If you order anything special for them, however, you pay for it.

    At traditional table service and QS restaurants, they can eat off your plate (literally) and you pay for their drink.
     
  7. ChipnDale79

    ChipnDale79 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    368
    Ahh, the I got mine attitude.

    You're company lost out on $3500 of my money this year because of that attitude.

    You'rewelcomeverymuch.
     
  8. tjkraz

    tjkraz <img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,306
    Oh, I suspect there are plenty of attitudes to go around... ;)

    Making a broad assumption regarding your comments in other posts, I'm guessing you hoped to spend $3500 and rates quoted were closer to $4500.

    Problem is there are others ready, willing and able to pay the $4500. If Disney were to discount to $3500 to earn YOUR money, they would also be losing a lot of OTHERS' money in the process.

    I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. We all have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. But businesses assign value to their products and typically stand by that value.

    Apple isn't going to sell me an iPad for $250 if they know they can get $500 for it. Doesn't matter that Amazon and a dozen others offer similar units for half the price.

    Lexus isn't going to sell me a new car for $25K despite the availability of countless lower-priced options from Ford, Dodge, Kia, etc.

    You can try to write folks off as sycophants or fanboys, but at the end of the day we all choose how to spend our own money--luxury cars, iPads, Disney trips...

    If people weren't paying Disney's prices, they would be forced to lower the rates. IMO, you're barking up the wrong tree if you wish to portray every WDW guest as a lemming who blindly pays whatever price Disney demands. By all accounts the number of people willing to pay those prices is increasing, not decreasing.

    As I've said, our family constantly tweaks our vacation planning to eliminate aspects which are now of questionable value (like character meals.) And if we feel the Disney park experience is vastly overpriced, we will simply stop going altogether.

    Incidentally, we have a family of 4 and we spend far less than $3500 for a week at Walt Disney World. There are many ways to compromise without sacrificing the overall experience. If you wish to forego WDW and spend your money elsewhere, that's certainly your prerogative. Different strokes...
     
  9. ChipnDale79

    ChipnDale79 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    368
    Yes I would say there are plenty of attitudes going around. Apparently speaking out against the disney company and their high prices gives me one.....

    But whatever, I guess I should just remember where I'm posting at.

    Quite frankly I'm getting tired of the long post by you trying to teach me about economics and business, I have a BSBA. I understand Business, Economics, and how they work. But I also have an understanding of what value is and what I'm getting in return for my money. For me, and from others I've spoken to, Disney is turning into a Low Value, High Cost product. Each person has a different perception of "value" and "cost", and that's fine.

    Disney's revenue might be growing, but I don't think its growing like it could based on their decisions.

    You're assumption is wrong, I have a budget of $3500 to spend on my vacation this year, the Disney trip that I quoted actually came pretty darn close to that, actually a tad bit under it. But I wasn't willing to pay that much for what I was getting in return.

    Instead we are taking a 10 day trip to the beach and the mountains starting a week from today.
     
  10. LisaRae87

    LisaRae87 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    Nope, did not order her anything special.. She just ate the family style food that was brought to our table and drank the juice that was provided and water.

    As for normal TS and QS I usually order her own meal off of the kids menu unless I am not particularly hungry, then we share..
     
  11. Bernie23

    Bernie23 Earning My Ears

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    International guests would have a passport.

    Glad to hear it's not true, I think it would be incredibly silly of them to do it. Most theme parks do not charge for infants and toddlers, alienating that demographic wouldn't seem to be very wise.

    If they were really worried about the under-three lawbreakers, asking for ID is the greatest way to prevent them from scamming the system.
     
  12. tjkraz

    tjkraz <img src="http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/silver.jpg

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    13,306
    You're entitled to your opinion and others are entitled to disagree. :confused3

    Interesting, then, that you would make random assertions that Disney doesn't know how to run their own business.

    Bingo.

    Seriously??

    Look, I'm not suggesting that Disney executives are omniscient. But they have access to decades of data on park attendance, hotel occupancy, average guest spending and more. They clearly know their business. And they're coming off of a quarter in which the theme park unit saw PROFITS increase by 74%.

    You have a degree in business administration and without any first hand knowledge of Disney financials, you feel qualified to comment on their business strategies??? :rolleyes2

    And that's certainly your prerogative. Beaches and national parks don't typically have the same overhead as a theme park complex in terms of rides, shows, parades, fireworks displays, animal care and so on. So goes without saying those destinations are cheaper to patronize.

    Enjoy your trip.
     
  13. Chuck S

    Chuck S DVC Boards Co-Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2000
    Messages:
    25,263
    Then you realize that any business has a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profitability for investors. This was demonstrated a few years ago when Michael Eisner eventually left the company following a resounding no confidence vote as CEO. It was because many stockholders and almost all fund managers didn't see what they considered adequate operating profits. It had nothing to do with his "losing the magic" or a perceived lack of pixie dust. Any company is now expected to maximize profit potential to please wall street or have their stock value plummet. True customer service is a casualty of profitability, as one of the easiest costs for any company to control is labor, fewer employees means higher profits. Also maximizing the sales price of products and services to whatever the market will bear is a fairly easy way to increase profits. With Disney, as well as other popular resort destinations, this is what they do unless they see a substantial drop in the number of visitors. We, as consumers, may not like the modern theory of free enterprise market concepts, but it will not change. You either pay the price, try to find some way to control costs like dining offsite, finding less expensive lodging (or using a timeshare) or find other vacation options.

    I do have some Disney stock, and I'm happy the stock has finally recovered after years of it being undervalued, but as a Disney frequent guest I also understand your frustration with rising prices. But the cost of EVERYTHING, not just Disney vacations, is on the rise...have you been grocery shopping lately? And compare the cost of energy to 10 or 15 years ago. And my gosh, a landline phone, whether you use it or not, is $60 per month when it was $15 only about 15 years ago. The problem for most folks is that wages haven't gone up as much as the cost of everything else.
     
  14. ChipnDale79

    ChipnDale79 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    368
    I get that, you've got yours and I've got mine, you just keep needling me because I have a different one than yours.

    You know, it's ok for people to disagree on something.

    Never said that, just don't agree with it. There's NOTHING wrong me not agreeing with them either.

    I feel I have the right to an opinion and have the right to say what I want, I've never said I know how to run their business better than they do. But I can tell you that I'm not the only one that because of inflated prices have decided to take a step back. To me, that says something as well.

    Look, another attempt to "educate" me on business and economics........
     
  15. maxiesmom

    maxiesmom The Mean Squinty Eye Works

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Messages:
    23,956
    Wow. All of this over a rumor that has already been shown to not be true.

    popcorn::
     
  16. LisaRae87

    LisaRae87 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    half agree

    I got charged $8 or $9 for my 2 year old at Ohana in December. So the rumor may hold some water. But all the bickering is a bit ridiculous.
     
  17. Minnies Boy Toy

    Minnies Boy Toy Keeping an eye out for Mickey....

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Disney's stock is up 33% again this year - same as last year. It's at an all-time high. I'm guessing they aren't missing your investment much. LOL

    I think it's cute how some of you still think the main objective of the DIS conglomerate is to personally entertain you at whatever cost you deem reasonable. Disney is a mega-corporation and answers to its stockholders. The company's purpose is to make money. If Disney can make more money enticing people to their resorts by giving a 2 year old free food, they will do that. This thread was a cheap bait thread from the beginning so obviously Disney still believes that there's no reason to change their dining policies.

    Personally, I love the Mouse, but he's a terrible cook, and I'd rather eat offsite than spend too much for substandard food - and that goes for my kids too. :)
     
  18. KPetty725

    KPetty725 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    523
    I wish there was a way to pay for buffets based on the amount you eat or the number of times you go through the line. My DH, who is a large man, makes sure he "gets his money's worth" no matter what. My two kids, however, (3 and 6) eat like birds so I end up paying kids' prices and they eat 2 grapes and a cookie. I guess for us it balances out because DH is getting a deal while the restaurant banks on the kids but it's still hard to pay knowing they're not going to eat!

    Maybe the restaurant could give you a card and a server at the head of the line punches it each time you go through, then you pay based on punches! Even if you share with your kids off your own plate, you'll still have to go back through if you want more for yourself.

    Dang, I'm a genius. :lmao:
     
  19. KPetty725

    KPetty725 DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    523
    There is a premium for people who go to character meals and don't eat. It's an "entertainment fee". That way they stop people from going to character meals just to meet the characters and not to eat. We were charged this fee for our 3-month-old a few years ago. Kind of funny since she slept through the whole meal but it was worth it to see our older daughter enjoying herself! :-)

    As for all the drama regarding Disney's fees, seriously people. What part of "for profit company" is confusing?? As someone who frequently pays the EXORBITANT fees for Disney cruises, I have no problem paying more for a higher quality product, which I feel Disney provides. When I go to McDonald's, yes it annoys me that the person behind the counter checks his cell phone before grudgingly taking my order (and money) but I don't complain because I'm paying $20 for my family of 4 to eat. When I go to Disney, I expect (and almost always receive) a high level of service. If you don't feel comfortable paying for Disney, Universal has some new stuff opening up this year! :wave2:
     
  20. CuteAsMinnie

    CuteAsMinnie DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,740
    THiS I will believe when I see it.
     
  21. LisaRae87

    LisaRae87 Mouseketeer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    I can understand what you are saying but it doesn't make sense for my situation.. My daughter did eat from the family style meal (nothing added or extra) and she was on the reservations.. Same thing at Crystal Palace a few months later but was not charged anything for her there.. :confused3
     

Share This Page