Buy direct

Discussion in 'Purchasing DVC' started by quandrea, May 17, 2013.

  1. quandrea

    quandrea DIS Veteran

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    I have been looking for AKL and SSR and have lost two contracts in the past two days. Called Disney today to ask about direct. No two ways about it, it's more expensive, but my it's tempting. I could have those AKL points tomorrow, albeit at a $10 000 premium. Must give my head a shake!!:rotfl2:
     
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  3. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    Do you really want to pay $10,000 extra just so you can have something right now? There are literally dozens of AKV resale contracts out there. It's not that difficult to buy one of those and save ten grand.
     
  4. quandrea

    quandrea DIS Veteran

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    No I don't. It's just frustrating to see the change in the market. Listings come up and are gone at asking before you know it. I told my husband that the good part of it is that our DVC contracts are in high demand. If we ever need to sell, we'll be able to. I'll wait and stalk the resale boards.
     
  5. WILDERNESS FAN 55

    WILDERNESS FAN 55 CANNOT GET ENOUGH

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    Tell the brokers what you want ! Price range-Use year-appx points. Let them do the work on what becomes available.:)
     
  6. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    This is a good point. If you bought direct you would not be able to say the same thing.

    Have you looked at Fidelity? They have a number of AKV contracts that don't sell as soon as they're listed. Perhaps you could try for one of those. Good luck! :)
     
  7. NHTikiBeckie

    NHTikiBeckie DIS Veteran

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    I tried this...no luck at all. I quickly realized I needed to be on top of finding them myself.
     
  8. disneynutz

    disneynutz DIS Veteran DIS Lifetime Sponsor

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    Disney creates the negatives of buying resale and probably laughs all the way to the bank when people buy direct.

    Their ROFR activity come in waves. There is a good chance when VGF goes on sale, (later this month) DVD will stop ROFR and focus on their favorite, selling new resorts which makes them more money.

    :earsboy: Bill
     
  9. quandrea

    quandrea DIS Veteran

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    Good point. Vgf sales are around the corner. Offered on a loaded akl contract with fidelity today. Have not heard back. Their website is woefully outdated. Not holding much hope for this offer. Sellers were asking 83 a point. I will not go that high.
     
  10. Minniesgal

    Minniesgal DIS Veteran

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    Just keep trying, have a look at al the brokers not just one, have them out you in their mailing list sometimes you get notified about new listings before they are even posted. No need to go direct resale will work
     
  11. nd43

    nd43 Disney Fan

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    Bill, you are often a very nice poster, but this is just insulting. I do not think people who buy direct are a joke to anyone. It is the people that buy direct that provide all the revenue to grow and improve DVC. Do you want to see new DVC resorts? Stop calling direct buyers idiots (which is what you are implying with such a statement). I can assure you I am no ones fool and I am buying direct. To imply that Disney somehow duped me into this decision is more then just a little condescending.
     
  12. WILDERNESS FAN 55

    WILDERNESS FAN 55 CANNOT GET ENOUGH

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    When I bought in Fidelity did this for me :) Hopefully you'll find something to your liking soon. Here's some pixiedust:
     
  13. WILDERNESS FAN 55

    WILDERNESS FAN 55 CANNOT GET ENOUGH

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    Without direct sales there would be NO resale. Chicken or the egg ? :rotfl2:
     
  14. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    True. And anybody who is selling today who bought prior to 2004 is likely getting most of their money back. Prior to 2008, a good chunk of their money back. After 2009, a fraction of their money back. DVC resales are an equation and for every gain that someone realizes there is oftentimes an equal loss by the seller. I think this is a fact that is too often overlooked as people nonchalantly talk about buying direct in today's marketplace. If you truly examine the numbers you will see that the value has been priced out of the DVC product. What's left is all sizzle and no steak. Now that works for some people, and that's fine. But people should know what they are getting themselves into.
     
  15. nd43

    nd43 Disney Fan

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    There are people who purchased BLT in the 90's at opening. Resales are now trending between $90.00 to $100.00. I am sure, when BLT opened, $95+ appeared "crazy" to many on this board and made it clear buying direct was a joke. Those same people are now encouraging people to buy resale with less benefits at the same price. Who was the fool?

    The question is, how many people who purchased a new resort at opening, used it 10 years, then sold, suffered great losses? After all, the price is all relative to the resort you purchased, when you purchased, and when you sold.

    In 10 years, will the new VGF buyers suffer great losses? Or will people be jumping all over themselves to buy VGF at $160 on resale with less benefits?
     
  16. agie65

    agie65 New Disney Fan DVC Gold

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    If you buying AKL 330 pts or over you pay only 128/pp after promo discount, prorated MF, and get 2012 points as well. These can be used on other disney product like DCL. Sure is very convenient to buy direct and have piece of mind, but there are chances you may find one good resale contract. Do agree most of the contract out there are stripped, so may not have a big saving.
     
  17. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    You are sure of this? Can you point to one example? With all due respect, I think you could benefit from brushing up on your DVC history. Never before in the history of DVC has the gap between resales and direct pricing been as large as it is now (or technically was at this time last year). For decades the average savings on a resale contract was somewhere in the range of 20%, a number that was neutral enough to convince people to go either way. Resales for BCV at the time were in the 80s, so a new resort at a prime location for $20 more per point was an easier sell. Never before have the price increases of the direct resorts been so substantial in such a short period of time. So your comparison of people who buy direct today with the founding buyers at BLT is not a good one. To extend it to VGF is also suspect, as DVC direct prices are in a completely different ballpark as they have been historically.

    It's not the same thing. Nobody is telling people that they should not have bought BLT direct when it was first offered. What people are saying is that it is not a good value now, at today's prices.

    But I have to ask, why the anger? Nobody is looking to make people feel badly. The fact of the matter is that based on financial criteria, in today's marketplace, purchasing direct is a significantly inferior option to purchasing resale. If, knowing this, you choose to buy direct because you are more comfortable, or you choose to spend your points on cruises knowing that option might be taken away, or whatever your rationale is, so be it. Our goal here is to educate people, not judge them. The discussions you are seeing here now about resale vs. direct did not happen back then, at least not in this context. The marketplace has changed.

    What happens with VGF is anybody's guess. But it is not an exact parallel to the opening of BLT. At that time, the difference between BLT direct and other resorts resale was much less. Now buyers are going to be faced with a choice of $200pp direct at VGF or $60pp resale at SSR. That is a significant difference, and one that has never existed in the history of DVC.
     
  18. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    With all due respect, I think that this is lazy analysis. You are getting the 2012 points because in most cases you are still in the 2012 use year. That is not a bonus. Also, there are plenty of good resale contracts out there that have full points. Yes, we are seeing more stripped contracts on the market, but it is not that difficult to find a contract with full 2012 and 2013 points, and even sometimes banked 2011 points. The opportunities for savings are substantial, I think you are too quick in dismissing them.
     
  19. Minniesgal

    Minniesgal DIS Veteran

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    Instead of making the jump from resale prices to direct prices why not increase your resale offer a few dollars per point above what you have been offering to Increase your chances of success and still make great savings
     
  20. nd43

    nd43 Disney Fan

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    The history I reviewed was what people were paying when a resort opened to what the resale market looked like 10 years later. It appeared, fairly consistently, the people that purchased a resort early did ok if they held about 10 years. By ok, I mean they did not take huge losses. That was my only point. Buying a new resort direct at opening, to date, has done ok for people although most comments on this board would lead people to believe buying direct was a financial disaster all the time.

    So, the trend would need to stop for VGF. I think you point out very good reasons why VGF might be different, but it would be different if early direct buyers had a big loss in 10 years. I agree, no one can predict this with certainty. History, in this case, is on my side in terms of how new resorts performed over time from opening. It might all change with VGF.

    To be honest, my anger was a carry over from another thread were someone was claiming Disney would be laughing to the bank when people buy direct. That attitude about direct buyers being fools being duped by Disney is offensive. You caught some blow back from that frustration.
     
  21. ELMC

    ELMC DIS Veteran

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    Fair points all around. I think you're correct, historically anybody who bought into a new resort at the onset did quite well. However, with no "new" resorts currently on the market, all we can talk about is what is currently available. There is a tremendous difference between BLT at $98pp and BLT at $165. So when I criticize direct purchases, I am only talking about the here and now and not what people have done in the past. I try to make that clear, but I'm not always successful.

    With regards to VGF, you are right. History supports your theory. But what does the prospectus of every mutual fund say? Past performance is no guarantee of future results. I've got a bad feeling about this one. But even if the resale market does somehow settle in at $170-180 per point, the true measure of the value of VGF is not against itself, but the other resorts. If it becomes possible to book a room at VGF using resale SSR points, the difference in out of pocket expense for that room reservation is astronomical.

    With regards to Bill's post about Disney laughing to the bank, I believe he was engaging in a bit of hyperbole. But, if you look at the thinking behind his statement, it's not entirely flawed. People are paying $145 pp direct for AKV while others are buying it resale for $65pp. And despite what DVD would have you believe, there is not that significant a difference between direct and resale points. So is it entirely unfair to suggest that people who knowingly (or unknowingly) pay double for AKV direct points are a bit foolish? From a financial standpoint, it does seem like a foolish move. But I would not go so far as to call anybody a fool.
     

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