Attendance DOWN at WDW?

[HatboxHaint]

The quote says modestly down, but still.... it's not down at MK, I'm sure. IMO this is WDW's neglect of the other 3 parks for so long that has caused this attendance drop. Think about everything that has been shuttered in the last few years...

“Attendance at our domestic theme parks was relatively flat, as an increase at Disneyland Resort was offset by a modest decrease at Walt Disney World Resort.”


http://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories...reports-failure-to-meet-revenue-expectations/

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Sounds like business success to me for the PARKS SBU... and lower crowds for those who do go...

http://www.**************.net/2016/...e-up-according-to-new-disney-earnings-report/

"Here are the stats that stood out:

* Disney reports Walt Disney World attendance was down between January and March

* Park revenue is up due to higher ticket prices, higher food and beverage spending and higher room rates

* Film division revenue up 22 percent for the quarter"

 

[shanethesaint88]

I would guess that it has a lot to do with price increases/huge crowds the past 3-4 years. People dont want to spend so much money to be waiting in crazy lines for something. I think this is very interesting to see play out. It makes sense now why they are offering summer discounts and free dining again. I would wager that possibly for the next two years (rest of this one and into early 2018) that crowds will continue to decrease. Disney has been getting a lot of bad press lately about money grabs and to expensive, plus the crazy crowds they were getting. Informed people on here no how to go and have a great trip still, but the average person...they will here disney is to exspensive and say nope without even looking into it becuase they werent keen on going in the first place like we are

 

[shanethesaint88]

Sounds like business success to me... and lower crowds for those who do go...

http://www.**************.net/2016/...e-up-according-to-new-disney-earnings-report/

"Here are the stats that stood out:

* Disney reports Walt Disney World attendance was down between January and March

* Park revenue is up due to higher ticket prices, higher food and beverage spending and higher room rates

* Film division revenue up 22 percent for the quarter"

It is definitely not business success. That article doesnt show everything from the earnings report. How their media division is suffering and how they had to close down their game studio. (And they had to charge 170 million dollars to do so) theyre stock price dropped and they were well below revenue expectations for the first time in like 5 years. Definitely not having success overall. But their movie business is doing gangbusters and parks and resorts revenue is up.(that is not good for long term though when attendance is down, short term it looks good though)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I would guess that it has a lot to do with price increases/huge crowds the past 3-4 years. People dont want to spend so much money to be waiting in crazy lines for something. I think this is very interesting to see play out. It makes sense now why they are offering summer discounts and free dining again. I would wager that possibly for the next two years (rest of this one and into early 2018) that crowds will continue to decrease. Disney has been getting a lot of bad press lately about money grabs and to expensive, plus the crazy crowds they were getting. Informed people on here no how to go and have a great trip still, but the average person...they will here disney is to exspensive and say nope without even looking into it becuase they werent keen on going in the first place like we are

But again... If they can DECREASE crowds some yet INCREASE profits -- which IS what they've done SO FAR -- that's good, no?

Obviously the danger comes if crowds decrease too much. That hasn't happened yet, though.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It is definitely not business success. That article doesnt show everything from the earnings report. How their media division is suffering and how they had to close down their game studio. (And they had to charge 170 million dollars to do so) theyre stock price dropped and they were well below revenue expectations for the first time in like 5 years. Definitely not having success overall. But their movie business is doing gangbusters and parks and resorts revenue is up.(that is not good for long term though when attendance is down, short term it looks good though)

I was talking specifically about the parks results in my post.

 

[shanethesaint88]

But again... If they can DECREASE crowds some yet INCREASE profits -- which IS what they've done SO FAR -- that's good, no?

Obviously the danger comes if crowds decrease too much. That hasn't happened yet, though.

Precisely! I think its wonderful for them that they can have a decrease in crowds and still go up in revenue. Not so much for the consumer as much as it is good for the business. The problem comes in if that starts to turn from an anomaly to continual decrease. I dont think that will happen however with the major projects that should be done in the next 5 years. Theyll get people into the park on the star wars land hype alone no matter what the price is.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Precisely! I think its wonderful for them that they can have a decrease in crowds and still go up in revenue. Not so much for the consumer as much as it is good for the business. The problem comes in if that starts to turn from an anomaly to continual decrease. I dont think that will happen however with the major projects that should be done in the next 5 years. Theyll get people into the park on the star wars land hype alone no matter what the price is.

Yes -- agreed on ALL points!

 

[shanethesaint88]

I was talking specifically about the parks results in my post.

Yes my apologies. I just always look at it as a whole now becuase as we have seen recently other parts of the company are starting to have effects on the parks

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes my apologies. I just always look at it as a whole now becuase as we have seen recently other parts of the company are starting to have effects on the parks

Agreed AGAIN! I got the Morningstar alert this morning and always follow this stuff. There are clear challenges that they need to face.

I think parks will fare well, though. It may "get darker before it gets lighter" for a while, but with everything in the pipeline I think that will ultimately be a positive story.

 

[shanethesaint88]

Agree with the darker before it gets lighter. I think from now until some part of the expansion at hollywood studios is open, WDW is in for a lot of bad press and more than likely more attednace decrease. They will continue to increase prices and extra charge events, becuase frankly they might have to. Imagine if they didnt increase prices and attendance was down like it was. Then they would have not increased revenue and stocks would have further sinked. As much as I hate to say it we (wdw die hards) might have to put the company on our backs for the next few years. ESPN/ABC is sucking money out of them and the parks plus their movies division is the only things doing great. And we dont want that to fail and the company as a wholenreally start to sink. Thats not good for anyone.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Agree with the darker before it gets lighter. I think from now until some part of the expansion at hollywood studios is open, WDW is in for a lot of bad press and more than likely more attednace decrease. They will continue to increase prices and extra charge events, becuase frankly they might have to. Imagine if they didnt increase prices and attendance was down like it was. Then they would have not increased revenue and stocks would have further sinked. As much as I hate to say it we (wdw die hards) might have to put the company on our backs for the next few years. ESPN/ABC is sucking money out of them and the parks plus their movies division is the only things doing great. And we dont want that to fail and the company as a wholenreally start to sink. Thats not good for anyone.

Good points, but I think there's a bit of chicken-and-egg here in some of this. IF park attendance is down because of increased prices (I suspect that's at least partially right and that that's part of what they were going for), they directly caused this. Meaning this line of thinking isn't quite on point: "Imagine if they didnt increase prices and attendance was down like it was."

Also, personally I will be happy to shoulder some of this in the next few years if it means lower crowds but not so low that it's a REAL problem for Disney. I'd prefer lower crowds. I think many of the upcharge events are worth it and we like many of them and are willing to pay. This isn't the case for everyone, and I get that.

Then when all the new stuff FINALLY opens, the crowds will definitely increase, barring Disney doing something INSANE.

 

[shanethesaint88]

I agree! Definitely would love to see lower crowds and will pay increasing prices for it. Ive always gone by the notion you get what you pay for. So id be willing to pay for lower crowds

 

[Angel Ariel]

But again... If they can DECREASE crowds some yet INCREASE profits -- which IS what they've done SO FAR -- that's good, no?

Obviously the danger comes if crowds decrease too much. That hasn't happened yet, though.

If their aim was truly to decrease crowds, they would not have released blackout dates for some FL resident passes around Easter, and there wouldn't be big discounts on the resorts for the busy summer time.

Those things, in combination with the report of attendance being down, tells me that *without* those additional incentives, attendance would be down much more than Disney wants. That doesn't come across as business success to me.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If their aim was truly to decrease crowds, they would not have released blackout dates for some FL resident passes around Easter, and there wouldn't be big discounts on the resorts for the busy summer time.

Those things, in combination with the report of attendance being down, tells me that *without* those additional incentives, attendance would be down much more than Disney wants. That doesn't come across as business success to me.

To be fair, does ANYTHING that Disney does with Parks seem like a success to you?

They have their attendance data in real time, obviously. Perhaps they're forecasting decreases beyond what they aimed for and are balancing out with summer deals -- only on resort stays specifically. Just a guess.

Anything other than their published results is obviously pure conjecture on all our parts. Their RESULTS in Parks so far is that the bottom line is fattening. As long as attendance doesn't decrease below a point where this isn't true, that IS CURRENTLY a business success. Which is what I said in my post.

 

[Angel Ariel]

To be fair, does ANYTHING that Disney does with Parks seem like a success to you?

Wow. That was uncalled for. To answer that very rude assumption, Yes. There is a lot that Disney succeeds with in the parks, IMO. I don't need to justify what I love about Disney parks to you just because I'm critical of them as well.

Anything other than their published results is obviously pure conjecture on all our parts.

Yep it is, and I never claimed otherwise.

Their RESULTS in Parks so far is that the bottom line is fattening. As long as attendance doesn't decrease below a point where this isn't true, that IS CURRENTLY a business success. Which is what I said in my post.

And that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. As I am welcome to have my own opinion as well.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Wow. That was uncalled for. To answer that very rude assumption, Yes. There is a lot that Disney succeeds with in the parks, IMO. I don't need to justify what I love about Disney parks to you just because I'm critical of them as well.



Yep it is, and I never claimed otherwise.


And that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. As I am welcome to have my own opinion as well.

Oh, goodness! What I said was incredibly tame, and I was being tongue in cheek -- not trying to be rude. Perhaps I am alone in thinking that most of what you have had to say about Parks in recent years is negative. That's all I was joking about. I honestly thought you'd take it as the jest it was.

 

[HatboxHaint]

I agree! Definitely would love to see lower crowds and will pay increasing prices for it. Ive always gone by the notion you get what you pay for. So id be willing to pay for lower crowds

I am of a mind to pay for lower crowds as well, but not seeing this happen yet have we?! The Evening upcharge event gets you this, but the price point is not there. I think the price point is there for the parties but we all know that they will be wall to wall this year even with price increases.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I am of a mind to pay for lower crowds as well, but not seeing this happen yet have we?! The Evening upcharge event gets you this, but the price point is not there. I think the price point is there for the parties but we all know that they will be wall to wall this year even with price increases.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see that price come down. I attended one of them (free last minute giveaway to DVC members), and I think they could easily add more people and drop the price. Though perhaps it only FELT that way because they didn't even have the number of attendees they anticipated... Don't know...

 

[Angel Ariel]

Oh, goodness! What I said was incredibly tame, and I was being tongue in cheek -- not trying to be rude.

Thank you for clarifying.

Perhaps I am alone in thinking that most of what you have had to say about Parks in recent years is negative. That's all I was joking about. I honestly thought you'd take it as the jest it was.

I may disagree with a lot of choices TDO is making, but I still love the parks themselves. I also have appreciated a lot of the decisions that TDA has made of late, which is part of why our trips have been to Disneyland lately. Disneyland has always had a special place in my heart (and always will), as it is the Disney park I most remember from growing up.

Please don't mistake my criticism of TWDC choices as a lack of love for the parks. That couldn't be further from the truth.