Asked to Prove you are ASD or turned away?

Discussion in 'disABILITIES!' started by The_Alice, May 5, 2012.

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  1. The_Alice

    The_Alice Xavier Atencio is my hero!

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    We just got back from WDW last week and we had a good time. But, we did have a melt down at Haunted Mansion due to the changes. We worked to resolve it with the CMs there, but I did go to Guest Services to state that there are some issues with how the GACs are being handled by CMs.

    What the Guest Services CM told me during the course of the conversation didn't really set well. She stated that because so many people are having their children "pretend" to have Autism or simply just state their child has ASD in order to "cut lines" they are being a bit more discriminate in the giving of GACs to Guests, sometimes refusing to give them. I informed her I understand that this can be a concern, but that to my knowledge Guest Relations is not allowed to ask for "proof" and that this could lead to quite a firestorm if they weren't careful.

    If we had to provide proof we could from several sources including his doctors, Easter Seals, school corporation etc., but I know that it wouldn't sit well with our family to be looked at like we were trying to "get away with something". The GAC makes touring the world much easier and less stressful, and as I am sure most of you would agree, I don't mind waiting longer if it means he is calmer during the day and we have less meltdowns.

    I would chalk this up to an inexperienced CM but I also heard it from two other CMs at DHS when we got to talking about my son's GAC and they wanted to see where it was issued.

    Has anyone else heard this?
     
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  3. Nik's Mom

    Nik's Mom Karl Pilkington is a genius

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    That is totally against the law. They really need to do a better job educating their cm's. But, I will gladly show them a doctors note if it means that only those with a disability are able to get a GAC.
     
  4. The_Alice

    The_Alice Xavier Atencio is my hero!

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    See that's what I thought too, but she just stated that they could just refuse to give one if they didn't "believe the child had Autism".

    The other two CMs also stated they had spoken with families refused GACs due to the Guest Relations staff not believing or recognizing the signs of ASD in their kids.

    Does anyone have a link to the Title III requirements from the ADA?
     
  5. clanmcculloch

    clanmcculloch DIS Veteran

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    Wow, this is so BAD. I know we had a frustrating experience at MK a few trips ago when getting DD14's GAC but we were given it and then we were never questioned about it after. The CM who was issuing it was telling me in a somewhat snotty tone that he didn't think we needed it but would give it to us because we had been given one in the past (I had a couple past ones with me). We then moved on to purchasing my TiW card and he started chatting a bit with DD14. By the end of the conversation he was really sweet to her because despite being in such an amazing mood due to having just arrived at WDW and riding the monorail alone with me (she LOVES alone time with me; we hopped the monorail just to get her GAC so she was SUPER happy), she still started showing some signs of a meltdown brewing (I got it under control quickly but the stimming was evident as was the rigidity so it became much more obvious). I think he got a huge lesson in not judging disability book by its cover. At least I hope he did. I'm not sure how I'd handle somebody looking me in the eye (well, as close as anybody gets to that; I don't look people directly in the eye) and saying that he thinks I'm lying. Come to think of it, DD14 would give him an earful and it would be VERY clear that she's autistic with the way she'd respond. Boy, I pity the fool who tries that with us. LOL
     
  6. BillSears

    BillSears DIS Veteran

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    I tend not to comment on disabilities that I do not have personal experience with so please forgive me if I get any of this wrong. I figure you guys who live with it day to day know much more than I would.

    From what I've heard equal access cannot be denied and you cannot ask for proof for equal access. But for superior access you can ask for proof. For example a handicapped parking permit requires proof.

    So what type of access is needed/desired for an ASD GAC? If all you want is to go into the normal line then that's equal access, legally equal but not end result equal. Being given a little card for a time to return and then being escorted past the line would be equal access with pretty much equal results. But being allowed to use the fastpass line without a fastpass or to otherwise bypass the line isn't equal access.

    In the past Disney did give wheelchair users superior access and after a lot of abuse in the 80s-90s(just a guess on my part) things were tightened up and now wheelchairs seem to get about equal access with some better and some worse. It's not as nice as getting front of the line access wheelchair users used to get but it's still better than most other places in the "real world". I can see Disney trying to do something similar with the ASD GAC. If people abuse it they have to stop the abuse somehow and providing equal access instead of superior is one way to do that.

    I know you guys are in a tough situation and I don't know what a good solution is. Hopefully something will be done that all sides can live with.
     
  7. jmartinez1895

    jmartinez1895 DIS Veteran

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    On our last trip we went to City Hall at MK to get my son his GAC. The family in front of us was trying to get one for there child and they did not get one. I got very nervous, but I just told them what we needed and why and they gave us one. I think that they may be cutting back on people just walking up and saying my child has xyz and we need a GAC and they are enforcing the need to explain what you need ( or at least I hope that this is what is going on).t the
     
  8. The_Alice

    The_Alice Xavier Atencio is my hero!

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    We kept our GAC from last time just to be on the safe side, and all we asked was that he be provided an alternate area to wait. No front of the line stuff etc. The reason we ask for this is so primarily he can be kept calmer during his day and also if he does have a melt down in line a.) it's easier to get the heck out of there if need be and b.) since he can become violent to lessen the risk of harming others should he start to strike out.
     
  9. The_Alice

    The_Alice Xavier Atencio is my hero!

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    Bill to my knowledge the fact is that Disney quite simply does not have an alternate area set up for many of it's attractions, especially in MK due to it being built in the early 70s.

    Do we go up expecting the Fast Pass route. As I stated previously, if it meant waiting double the time in a more quiet area versus standard time in line so long as it minimized his stress therefore melt downs I would gladly do it.

    I too hope for a resolution that makes all parties at least satisfied. I do think the CMs need more training with ASD as now 1 in 88 are diagnosed on the spectrum in some form. So with growing rapidity they will start seeing more children coming into the parks with ASD or some type of processing disorder.
     
  10. Nik's Mom

    Nik's Mom Karl Pilkington is a genius

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    Same here. We do not ask for or ever get front of the line access. And we also use touring plans, get to the parks at opening, etc. So, we often don't even need to use the GAC.
     
  11. Mary976

    Mary976 DIS Veteran

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    We don't usually get a GAC (DD uses a wheelchair) but were offered one last time to help with something specific for a couple of rides. We only used it a handful of times. At Soarin, the CM did check the name and asked who it was, he then asked me where the card was issued. But then he handed it right back and there wasn't a problem. I would assume he was verifying that the person whose name was on the card was actually the one using it...maybe the asking where we got it was to be sure we weren't "borrowing" the card from someone else??

    Anyway, it seems like if you can explain your needs clearly (rather than just your diagnosis), the GAC process is more likely to be a smooth one.

    Mary
     
  12. The_Alice

    The_Alice Xavier Atencio is my hero!

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    Agreed. We used it on HM to avoid the stretching room which is what led to all of this. Our youngest can't deal with the tight enclosed space, blackout etc. It sets him off. So we hoped to avoid the stretching room. They found a way for us to do so and basically wait in line, go in the chicken exit and avoid it. But, it took some doing.
     
  13. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    Here is the link to Title III of the ADA:
    http://www.ada.gov/taman3.html

    This is a very interesting read and it could be argued that Disney is in violation of several of the sections, even before they started this new denying guests GACs.

    In one case, I know Disney was in violation for a time at World of Color at California Adventure, they decided to move all of the wheelchair spaces to the back. This meant that they were not dispersed throughout the seating area and that they were not providing the same lines of sights as available to other guests, even though it was readily achievable since they had done it previously. It also limited the number of people that could sit (in this case stand, but the principle is the same) with their friends or family. This was a clear violation of 4.4660 on this list (and a few other sections in ADA as well). I called them on it and they have since corrected the problem after I spoke with some of the management team at the Disneyland Resort. And yes, the rules listed above apply to Amphitheaters, even when they are generally standing only venues. In all reality, their current arrangement may still be a violation, I am not sure. At bare minimum allowing guests to put kids on their shoulders in front of the wheelchair sections is indeed a violation, as this is a readily achievable accommodation that can be made to provide equal viewing.

    Looking at this, they absolutely cannot deny a guest a GAC because they don't think the guest has a disability based on what I am reading throughout this. There is no doubt about the language of the law, so stand up for your rights.
     
  14. BillSears

    BillSears DIS Veteran

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    But I don't see anything in this that says Disney must provide an alternate entrance or a quiet waiting area if someone's disability would need that. Getting a GAC and then not giving an alternate entrance/waiting area would mean that basically your GAC is useless.

    There are all sorts of rules for wheelchair access but very few rules for ASD types of disabilities. Disney has been giving a lot of accommodations that are fantastic but may not be required by law.

    I've always felt that Disney goes above and beyond the law for wheelchair access. It's the probably the most accessible place I've ever visited and that includes most hospitals. I suspect it's similar for the ASD crowd.
     
  15. cmwade77

    cmwade77 DIS Veteran

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    For ASD, it would be under Mental Disability and large portions of Section 3 would cover that modifications that are easily achievable would need to be made to accomodate this, in the case of Disneyland/Disney World, a reasonable accommodation is the GAC, providing that it is handled properly.

    That being said, there was a point in time where I would agree that Disney was the most accessible park; however, at least in Southern California other parks have been improving their accessibility while Disney has been staying in place, at best, at worst they have gone backwards slightly with their latest policies.

    Out of the So. Cal Parks, I would place Disney as 5th in accessibility. I would place the following parks in order from best to worst, for the following reasons:
    1. Sea World
      • Accessible parking is within a few hundred feet of the entrance.
      • They provide options for accessibility, even hidden disabilites, at all rides, shows, shops and dining venues. This even includes for those that simply can't stand for long periods of time, but can walk.
      • If you rent an ECV or Wheelchair, if you ask them, they will have someone take you all the way to your car with it, not just the loading/unloading area or to the tram.
    2. San Diego Safari Park
      • The parking is once again very close to the entrance and they will allow the disabled to use the preferred parking at no additional cost when the accesible parking is full.
      • They provide free shuttles throughout the park.
      • They provide a companion with a free ticket.
      • If you are not travelling with someone and give at least 14 days notice, they will provide someone to push your wheelchair, a sign language intrepreter or someone to describe everything for the visually impared at no additonal cost. In some cases they will still do this, even if you do have other people in your party.
      • They have installed an elevator on their steepest hill, providing a second alternative to the shuttle.
      • Allows the use of Segways as accesible devices, at least in "Turtle Mode"
    3. San Diego Zoo
      • Everything that the San Diego Safari Park offers, except the elevator. The only reason this one is here instead is that the staff doesn't always know what the accesible routes are and they are not as clearly marked.
    4. Universal Studios
      • This was just below Disneyland for me (almost a tie though), until Transformers the ride came around.
      • The disabled parking is close to the entrance, with no tram required.
      • They provide shuttles to their lower lot for the disabled.
      • Transformers: The Ride is what pushed this one over for me. This is a thril ride, but it is desined to allow service animals as well as allow guests in their wheelchair to reamin in their wheelchair.
      • They provide accomodations at all rides, shows, shops and restaurants for all forms of diabilities.
      • I think their system is probably the most fair, in general, if the line is under 20 minutes, they simply allow you to use the Gate A (aka FOTL) access; however, if the line is longer they will give you a time to come back at that is equal to the length of the line (usually minus about 5 minutes to account for the time you will wait in Gate A). You return and use Gate A access. This means there is less abuse of the system, because you are definitely waiting the same amount of time as everyone else, just in a place that is more condusive to your needs and yet you do not ended up waiting much longer than anyone else, which is also fair to you.

      The Disneyland Resort has several issues with accessibility still:
      • At most shows, wheelchair seating is limited to only one section, not dispersed throughout the theater, as required.
      • The wait times for those that need assistance (especially that cannot do stairs or need a wheelchair vehicle) often wait longer than everyone else. This is partially due to abuse, but mostly due to policy.
      • The hills going into and out of Critter Country and Mickey's Toontown are not ADA compliant and there are readily achievable accomodations that could be made to make this possible.
      • The accesible loading areas for the shuttles to the parking lots (with the exception of Toy Story) require them to wheel or walk further than most, if not all of the other guests.
      • The accesible parking spaces are not within the appropriate distance to the entrance of the parks. That being said, it could be argued that they only need to be close enough to the Trams, even if that is the case, they are still not close enough based on ADA. Nor are there enough spaces that do not require the use of the elevator at the parking structure. Some will say that the use of the elevator is accomodation enough; however, since the escalators are often broken to one or more levels, this puts an extra strain on the elevators and prevents the disabled from using them, which then violates sections of the ADA. This is a manitenance issue with the escalators and an issue with not enough elevators, let alone fast enough elevators.
      • There is no accessible parking for the Grand California hotel that I have been able to find and since Valet parking costs extra, that is not an alternative.
      • The parking structure at the Paradise Pier hotel does not have an elevator and there are not enough accessible spaces in their lot.
      This is a smalle list of the issues that Disney still needs to address, there are indeed far more that need to be addressed.

      Please note that I use Southern California as my example, as I do not know how Florida's other parks compare to Disney.

      For the record, in So. Cal., I would rank all of the other major parks as non-ada compliant, mostly due to policy issues. There are some smaller parks that easily rank amongst the best of the best though.
     
  16. Maggie'sMom

    Maggie'sMom DIS Veteran

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    GAC's are supposed to be based on needs and not diagnosis. My DD has a mood disorder and sensory issues but isn't on the spectrum. I've never used a GAC for her but it's always been comforting to know that they are there if I decide we need one. Your experience is bothersome to me because I'd hate to decide that we need a GAC and have a CM refuse because she thinks we're making up our needs or because it doesn't fit a pre-conceived notion of what diagnoses should receive a GAC.
     
  17. Mom2six

    Mom2six DIS Veteran

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    I would totally provide proof of what needs my sons have - I may actually take a doctor's note just in case I run across a problem getting the GACs. However, it is against the law for them to require proof, so I don't know what justification they are using to deny them to people.
     
  18. bookwormde

    bookwormde <font color=darkorchid>Heading out now, another ad

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    In ruling after ruling, it is demonstrated that the intent is that persons will disabilities have as equivalent access to accommodations (hotels, shows, rides or any other "public" event). This includes that the experience be as similar as practical to that for non disabled individuals.
    That is part of why families and groups are not allowed to be split up beyond what would occur typically.
    As for ASD individuals who cannot manage the high density, long duration lines, Disney must provide reasonable accommodations such as an alternate waiting area or electronic means to enter the attractions without waiting in line at a time no later than what would exist for non disabled individuals.
    There are also clear rulings that even at older attractions that are grandfathered, that if the waiting area or system is modified in any significant way that, that entrance access must meet ADA even if the actual attraction is still grandfathered.
    Different divisions at the parks sometimes make changes without vetting though the disabilities group (such as the double stacking busses issue we have last year), my guess is that this is what happened in with requiring more that "self declaration" for a GAC. The funny thing is that you do not need a GAC to get accommodations anywhere at WDW, since all you need to do is to declare the disability to any employees responsible for an area, and how your disability impacts equal access and opportunity, and if they or you have an accommodation that is reasonable accomplishable they must provide it. The GAC is just a convenience and way to enhance privacy and efficiency for both the guest and CMs.
    There is a reasonableness caveat, but it is based on both time to implement and the wherewithal to accomplish the accommodation which for a company with the resources of Disney, is almost limitless, so I have never seen them even try to use it as a defense. The typical defense if that is will significantly change the nature of the attraction, which is some cases has validity.
    If anyone has first hand experience with being improperly asked to prove a disability or being denied a GAC after self declaration please feel free to email me and I will take if up though the chain of command. Times, where , nature of discussion and who you talked with are important if the process. I will be at WDW in June, and will do a few tests.
    bookwormde
     
  19. SueM in MN

    SueM in MN combining the teacups with a roller coaster Moderator

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    I have actually seen Guest Services staff refuse a GAC to several people over the past few years while I or my family was waiting for other things. I think that most refusals probably fit into the category of the family not being able to/refused to explain their needs. Here are 2 of the cases I personally observed:

    Case 1: who said they had a child with “Cerebral Palsy and other needs” who needed a GAC because he could not stand in line.
    The CM asked if the child had a wheelchair or if they needed information on renting one. The woman said they child did have his own wheelchair.
    The CM offered one of the guide maps for guests with disabilities and said that most lines were accessible and the map listed entrances for those that were not and also listed warnings they would want to be aware of. The woman said that would not do because he was had CP. The CM asked what other needs the child had because of his disability and the woman again stated he had CP. When the CM began to ask again about needs, the woman became belligerent and started yelling at the CM.
    They did not have the child with them and said they could not bring him because he was “with other family members” in another part of the park. The CM said that the child needed to be present because it would be issued to him and again offered the special park maps, which the woman refused by throwing them back at the CM, yelling all the way out.
    My DH was waiting outside and saw her come out. When I came out, he asked what she was so mad about and said she had told the other waiting members something to the effect of “I told you it would not work.”

    Case 2: A family brought in their child who they said had autism. The CM asked what sort of assistance they needed for him and the family said he “could not wait in lines.” The CM asked a number of questions about his needs and the family just kept restating “He has autism.” I have no idea whether or not he actually had autism, just that they could not or would not answer the questions from the CM about his needs.

    I have read a number of posts over the years on this board and other boards and also in PMs to me where people said they were denied a GAC. Basically the information they shared came down to them just stating their diagnosis and not being able to explain their needs/disabilities related to their diagnosis.
    When I shared the following information, they understood why they did not get a GAC.

    The ADA does allow for accommodation to be refused if the person can’t explain what it is that they need. There is also no guarantee that accommodation will be present at all locations (for example, if someone says they need a separate waiting room and there is not one on that attraction).

    They won't look at paperwork for a couple of reasons.
    they are not medically trained so medical terms in the paperwork don't mean much to them.
    1. if you were sharing something like an IEP, most of the things in there are not relevant to a trip in the park, so it is information, but not neccessarily useful information to them in deciding what you need.
    2. the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) says they can't ask for proof of disability. (More about “proof” in another post coming up). They are allowed to ask what the nature of the disability is (which is different than the diagnosis). Autism and Cerebral Palsy are examples of diagnosis, not disability.
    3. the ADA says that assistance needs to be based on the needs of the person, which is why they ask the questions. Autism is a spectrum and (like all other conditions), the way one person is disabled by it is not the same as another person.
    People assume that a GAC is a pass and that all are the same. It really is a communication card to let the CMs know what assistance the guest will need. Not every person with autism is the same, so just saying "autism" doesn't help them to know what that person needs.
    For example, many people find that using a stroller in lines is very helpful, even if the child can walk. A stroller used as a wheelchair (or just a wheelchair for an older child) can provide a safe haven from stimulation or a separation from other guests. Some kids with developmental disabilities, like autism, may strike out, grab or hit other people who are within reach if they get overstimulated or upset. A stroller used as a wheelchair can be very helpful in situations like that because the person can be kept far enough away from others that they can't hit. A lot of people who become overstimulated easily will even be traveling around the park with a blanket over their head to further cut down on stimulation.
    That would be an example of an accommodation that the questions the CM asks is trying to figure out if the person needs.

    People need to think about similar situations to things you will encounter in the parks where you may wait in lines or where you are around a lot of people. Then ask yourself:
    1) what does he/she do in those situations?
    2) what about those situations is difficult for him/her?
    3) what would change the situation to make it easier?

    That is basically the information the CMs are trying to find out; there is no requirement under the ADA that assistance be provided if the person is not able to give information about what they need.

    I have also seen a situation where someone falsely got a GAC for autism while I was with DD getting a GAC and they were in another line. The child was in a stroller and doing stereotypical behavior that most people would view as autistic. I won’t say all the things the mother said (for reasons that people without disabilities do read boards like this for hints on how to claim to have a disability). She did say he could not speak and seldom interacted with people, but enjoyed his time in Disney. They finished while I was in line and my only thoughts were wondering if they had visited this board for hints.
    When I came out, DH and other members of my party asked what that family had gotten, because the mom and son were very happy when they came out (they were wearing distinctive clothing, so I know it was the same one). DH said they boy ran up to the dad, said “We got one!” and jumped up to give Dad a high five. The mom said “It worked”.
    We saw that same family multiple times during the day and saw the boy doing “autistic behavior” when they had to show the GAC, but acting like a typical boy his age at other times. I am not making a judgement here about someone I saw acting “typically” at some times, who was actually disabled. I had heard the mother tell the CM that he could not speak and seldom interacted with others, but that did not match his behavior.

    I do not make any judgments on people’s needs, based on small slices of time. We have had that judgement made on DD, based on someone seeing her out of her wheelchair and I know enough to understand that people with invisible disabilities often have nothing to see.
    However, in this case, it was many times over the course of a day not small slices of time and the behavior did not at all match what the mother told CMs it was.
    So, yes, there are people who fake disabilities to get something that they perceive is a benefit. CMs should not be making snide comments or being “snotty” though just because they are frustrated with a system that allows abuse.
    We have also had the experience of being asked which of us was the person using the card. We have also been asked if she will be riding. There are people who ‘borrow’ the card or use it for attractions where the person is not riding (the GAC is to meet the needs of the person who will be doing the attraction).
     
  20. SueM in MN

    SueM in MN combining the teacups with a roller coaster Moderator

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    It was actually not because of abuse, but because of the ADA.
    Attractions that were designed and built before the mid to late 1980s were built with 2 things in mind:
    1) Efficiency in delivering a consistent flow of guests to the loading area to keep the attraction operating at full capacity. For rides, this included delivering a single file line of guests to the boarding area.

    2) Efficiency in unloading and removing those guests from the attraction after the experience was finished.

    In many cases, this meant lines that were not handicapped accessible, from the standpoint of not being wheelchair accessible or having impediments to other guests with disabilities (including anyone who had difficulty with stairs or moving walkways). So, people who needed accommodation were pulled out of line (which often included waiting at the exit or actually entering the exit).
    The ADA said that guests with disabilities had to be handled in the main flow/mainstream as much as possible. Changes were made as attractions were built or renovated to accomplish this.
    Bill is correct in this. Proof can be required for things that are superior access or things of value that are provided for guests with disabilities, but not for the general public without disabilities.

    Some examples:
    • Kids on Wish trips can get a special GAC stamp that does let them skip lines. This is part of their Wish and they do need doctor’s documentation to get the Wish trip granted. The GAC is given during their trip orientation or with paperwork from the Wish granting organization. So, in a round about way, they are providing proof of disability. If WDW chose to provide that same kind of access for people with certain disabilities, they could require proof because that ‘expedited access’ is something of value.
    • Discounts on admission: some places do give discounts on admission and are allowed to require proof since this is a thing of value not available to guests without disabilities. An example of this is the US National Park system has a discount and they can and do require proof.
    • Paratransit: This is special bus/transportation service provided for people with disabilities who are not able to use regular public transportation because of their disability. It does require a process very similar to handicapped parking permits. Despite the name, it is available for other disabilities, not just people using wheelchairs. Some people with disabilities have no problem using regular public transportation and would not qualify for this.
    As for what accommodation is offered, there are specific things for wheelchair access because there are some specific things in terms of space that all wheelchair users need.
    For other guests, there are not as specific of guidelines.
    Chapter 10 in the 2010 ADA Standards for Access are the newest standards and has a lot of specific requirements, as far as architectural requirements and clear spaces.
    http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandards.htm#c10

    There are also standards in there regarding heights of things, signage and protrusions into travel paths that are helpful not only for guests with wheelchairs, but also for people (for example) who are blind or have low vision so that they don’t run into things that jut out more than 3 inches from the wall into their path, so that drinking fountains and counters are at consistent heights.
    This is the 2002 Accessibility Guidelines for Recreational Facilities:
    http://www.access-board.gov/recreation/final.htm
    They can’t ask for proof of disability, but can ask for information about what accommodations are needed and the ADA does not require them to provide assistance if the person does not provide information about what they need.

    A lot of that document has to do with ‘full and complete enjoyment” i.e., they can’t force people to miss certain attractions or parts of attractions based on their disability.
    For example, the recent changes to allow guests with wheelchairs to access the stretching room at Haunted Mansion in MK were to come into compliance with this. Before the recent changes, these guests were prevented from entering the stretching room if they used a wheelchair or other mobility device.

    Another example that would be in violation of the ADA, Universal had a movie experience where the entire floor of the theater moved in relation to the movies. Guests with mobility devices were not allowed to transfer into a regular seat and experience the movement. They were required to park in a small part of the theater which did not move. I don’t know if they still have this, but I remember how bummed out and bored my DD was sitting in the non-moving area and watching everyone else have fun. It would not be a violation to have a non-moving area that guests (with or without wheelchairs) can choose to go to if they do not want to experience the movement.
    I agree. The ADA requires that the accommodation given meets the needs related to a disability, not that it gives any advantage or any specific method of accommodation.
    An alternate entrance or waiting area is only one way of doing so and not the only one.
    Other ways might include giving a handwritten Fastpass or for a time equal to the regular wait time. This allows the person to find their own appropriate waiting place.
    most of the difficulties I have seen/heard about have had to do with people self declaring a condition, not their disability or difficulty with how the disability affects access.
    If the accommodation asked for is superior access, not equivalent, guests can be asked for proof.
     
  21. goofieslonglostsis

    goofieslonglostsis DIS Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,641
    First up; AMEN to Sue's post. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt etc. etc.

    As some might remember, last trip was the first I felt the need to complain about the blatent arrogant abuse of the GAC and any and all CM's having positions to assist those with needs but weed out those needing to go another directs kept their mouth shut. Did nothing, other than complain to fellow CM's and some obviously deciding not standing up and following the rules would be preferable to getting a hand full -and possibly worse- yet again when enforcing. Combined with the fact that the actual checking of the GAC has become almost non-excisting on the more recent trips I've been on made me decide it was long overdue to complain. Livid does not even begin to describe my sentiment.

    Let's just say by filing that complaint I ran into a great CM at guest service. Had the pleasure of talking to quite a few CM's at different positions about this -many recognized me by then and would chat daily anyway and when I get so passionate about something I will spill it within no time ;) -. Just like Sue I'm always very carefull what I post both in public, in private and talk about IRL. I thought I knew quite a bit about abuse and ways it was being done. Let's just suffice to say I've learned dozens more ways I could never have imagined, one even worse than the other. Ways that are difficult to crack down on. Ways obviously very much in the spotlight. Ways that the only way to really crack down while still being able to help out those with a true need at said moment indeed is to ask further. Ask more questions, read body language etc.

    And yes, I can sadly state that it is too common a practice to abuse. :crazy2: I've seen "how to....." and "I've played the system in this way........." show up a surprising amount of times on international boards for my syndrome. A syndrome that is supposed to be........ rare. A syndrome that does NOT require a GAC simply because it doesn't always comes with needs that require a GAC. I've gotten unwanted PM's allover the internet about this when posting on a public part about WDW trips. Or others boosting about getting a GAC for need A which would come down to needing to use the GAC 5 times in a week, but using it whenever and whereever, resulting in dozens of time a day.

    Like Bill said before, I'll just stick with what I know. Odds are greatly against it, but sure enough in 2010 I was waiting at GS while another guest was in front of me and rather..... vocal. So anybody could enjoy it all. :rolleyes: Almost fel out of my chair to "enjoy the show". Statement of having the same syndrome and because of that not being able to wait in line. Other guests would be too high risk and any touch would result in luxation. In itself something that could be a fact for some with the syndrome. But the CM asked further; ok, you're asking for no waiting, but how would that deal with getting to the rides and shows, using our transportation? That was not a problem. What about the rides, the CM wanted to know, most will make sudden movements, if guest was so fragile, would they appreciate info which rides made movements? No, again no problem, going further to ask if he/she would now get to not wait in line for Space Mountain. Like that, I've seen more situations in which my syndrome was mentioned but the claims totally did not make sense.

    By then I had to pick up my eyes, almost falling out of their socket. If one is indeed so sensitive to unexpected movement causing dislocations, there is no way something like a rollercoaster with it's huge forces would not cause dislocations that are much more high risk. Let alone that one would have to have found a way to deal with crowds in daily life anyway, since being bumped into still isn't that weird outside WDW. The CM was very patient, asking further with each claim guest made, but it simply did not add up. Not to the CM, not to me, wouldn't to anybody with proper knowledge and even lack thereof of this syndrome but with a bit of common sense. They left with the known pamflets with accessibility info and no GAC.

    All I can say is that after what I've seen happen over the years, read about, being told about, it is time Disney takes more of a stand. It's the only way to keep it doable for all involved; those with a true need, CM's and all other guests. Let them ask questions. Let them check stuff. Esp. that part is long overdue. It takes no longer that 30 second to a minute to consequently check a GAC, but is a much needed way to sort out certain types of abuse. I personally can only thank them for doing it.
     
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