Are Disney prices too high?

[JimmyV]

For as long as I can remember, a Disney vacation has always been more expensive compared to other more traditional type vacations (i.e. going to the beach, going on a cruise, snow skiing, mountain getaway, etc..).

When WDW first opened, it cost $5.75 for an adult to be admitted to the park and ride 11 attractions. Parking was $0.50. These prices were certainly in line with other vacation options.

I don't think you fully understand.... eventually the parks will be filled by guests who don't have mortgages. Their houses are fully paid and they have money in the bank. When you have a world of 15 billion people but only room for 2 million of them, who cares about the ones with mortgages?

Disney is not the "anyone can go vacation".

I think what is strange here is the expectation that everyone should be able to afford Disney

See above. At $4.50 per adult for 9 attractions, and $5.75 for 11 attractions, WDW certainly was an "anyone can go" vacation back in the day. People who have been going for decades certainly did develop an expectation that everyone should be able to afford Disney. It was sort of inherent in Walt's mission statement.

Disney is a luxury good, inflation really doesn't matter when it comes to luxury goods, they are in a whole different market.

See above. It is now. But it wasn't always. To me, this is (or at least, should be) a luxury good...

This is not...

 

[brunette8706]

When WDW first opened, it cost $5.75 for an adult to be admitted to the park and ride 11 attractions. Parking was $0.50. These prices were certainly in line with other vacation options.




See above. At $4.50 per adult for 9 attractions, and $5.75 for 11 attractions, WDW certainly was an "anyone can go" vacation back in the day. People who have been going for decades certainly did develop an expectation that everyone should be able to afford Disney. It was sort of inherent in Walt's mission statement.


See above. It is now. But it wasn't always. To me, this is (or at least, should be) a luxury good...

This is not...

Love your analogy. Also, I love the teacup ride!

 

[5kidsmommy]

There are a few definitions of luxury. Some of them are:

1. the state of great comfort and extravagant living.

2. an inessential, desirable item that is expensive or difficult to obtain

When I have talked about luxury here in these threads I am referring to definition number 2, I certainly don't feel that Disney falls under number 1 for me and I don't think any of the posters you quoted think that way either.

 

[GreatLakes]

When WDW first opened, it cost $5.75 for an adult to be admitted to the park and ride 11 attractions. Parking was $0.50. These prices were certainly in line with other vacation options.
snipped

While that might have been true of a 1970's era Disney the company has changed and their goals have changed. The Disney of pre-1984 will never come back and this is a good thing. The Disney of the 1970's was en route to failure and at this point would have probably been sold for parts if they didn't make changes to may things. Their target audience for the parks is one of them and will continue to change.

"What would Walt do" is an often spouted mantra here at the Dis but that is how the company was run for twenty years after he died and it came very close to destroying it.

 

[JimmyV]

While that might have been true of a 1970's era Disney the company has changed and their goals have changed along with their target audience

And people have every right to moan and groan about those changes. But the idea that "Disney has always been a luxury vacation" is simply wrong. No two ways about it. That is what I was addressing. And it sounds as if you agree with that.

 

[GreatLakes]

And people have every right to moan and groan about those changes. But the idea that "Disney has always been a luxury vacation" is simply wrong. No two ways about it. That is what I was addressing. And it sounds as if you agree with that.

I do agree with that. I don't like to look at Disney, or any company really, and try to compare them to their historical self. This is especially true when the company as a whole is in a totally different market position then they were.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't like to look at Disney, or any company really, and try to compare them to their historical self. This is especially true when the company as a whole is in a totally different market position then they were.

I understand completely. But it isn't as if Disney transformed itself from an entertainment company to a defense contractor. While its market position has certainly changed (owed more to the TV and film divisions than the theme park division), the overall concept, structure and offerings of the theme park division have remained largely unchanged, so some people have a difficult time seeing where, when and why it suddenly became a "luxury good". The Magic Kingdom is still a place to go to ride amusement park rides. Some really nice amusement park rides, but still amusement park rides. Not sure where that fits in to the idea of a "luxury" vacation. Is it so because WDW really is "luxe" in the sense of a Four Seasons or a St. Regis, or the Lodge at Pebble Beach? Or was its transformation to "luxe" a self-fulfilling prophecy driven only by price increases? If it is the latter, then that is one heck of a marketing coup. Keep raising prices until people feel lucky and honored to be able to afford your product.

 

[GreatLakes]

I understand completely. But it isn't as if Disney transformed itself from an entertainment company to a defense contractor. While its market position has certainly changed (owed more to the TV and film divisions than the theme park division), the overall concept, structure and offerings of the theme park division have remained largely unchanged, so some people have a difficult time seeing where, when and why it suddenly became a "luxury good". The Magic Kingdom is still a place to go to ride amusement park rides. Some really nice amusement park rides, but still amusement park rides. Not sure where that fits in to the idea of a "luxury" vacation. Is it so because WDW really is "luxe" in the sense of a Four Seasons or a St. Regis, or the Lodge at Pebble Beach? Or was its transformation to "luxe" a self-fulfilling prophecy driven only by price increases? If it is the latter, then that is one heck of a marketing coup. Keep raising prices until people feel lucky and honored to be able to afford your product.

My first trip was in 1991 and we were a barely middle class family growing up. This was after Eisner came on board and changed the perception and pricing strategy of Disney but it was something aspirational that my parents saved for years to afford. It was viewed as the holy grail of a family vacation for us and most of my friends based on what we talked about back then. Not all of them but most of them. It was viewed as a big deal when you were the person on the street that finally got to go to Disney World. We could only really afford one big expensive vacation ever as kids and this was always going to be it. As it turned out my parent's financial situation eventually changed and that ended up not being the case but into my teens that was the reality. I suspect a very large chunk of the buying public still views Disney that way even if we don't here.

I think if you try and compare it to other adult vacations then no, it isn't really a luxury any longer. I would much rather spend a week anywhere in Europe (ok, almost anywhere) or doing a bike trip through the wine country in California if we are talking about the year's luxury trip. However, compared to most other kid-centered vacation destinations, I do think Disney is a luxury to the middle class. I suspect the population of these boards skews towards a higher income then the average Disney vacationing family so what we consider luxury and what Disney's core customers considers luxury probably isn't the same. Pebble Beach and St. Regis are probably not even in the equation.

I also very much recognize that the mere fact that I can go to Disney multiple times during my lifetime is a luxury most of the world, even the first world, doesn't have. When it becomes enjoyable or not worth it I will just stop going.

Of course YMMV.

 

[AquaDame]

When WDW first opened, it cost $5.75 for an adult to be admitted to the park and ride 11 attractions. Parking was $0.50. These prices were certainly in line with other vacation options.




See above. At $4.50 per adult for 9 attractions, and $5.75 for 11 attractions, WDW certainly was an "anyone can go" vacation back in the day. People who have been going for decades certainly did develop an expectation that everyone should be able to afford Disney. It was sort of inherent in Walt's mission statement.


See above. It is now. But it wasn't always. To me, this is (or at least, should be) a luxury good...

This is not...

Well said on all counts IMO!

 

[Budshark]

When WDW first opened, it cost $5.75 for an adult to be admitted to the park and ride 11 attractions. Parking was $0.50. These prices were certainly in line with other vacation options.

The generally used 1955 cost is $7.50 to ride all rides. (not sure if I can link, but a simple Google search will return that a full ride admission would run $7.50)

And when Disneyland first opened, the average American income was $4,137. Now that $7.50 doesn't look so appetizing does it? We need to put things in perspective.

Family of 4 trip to 1955 Disneyland was $30.50 (with parking and enough tickets to ride all rides).
Family of 4 trip to 2015 Disneyland is $415 (single day 1 park ticket, with parking)

in 1955, 1 day was .007% of annual income (using the $4,137 average household income)
In 2015, 1 day is .008% of annual income (using reported $51,759 average household income)

I'm pretty sure with new rides like the Matterhorn, its a small world, tiki room, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, and a few others they've added .001% worth of value.

And then of course, is the "multi-day" discounts, and the ever more expensive annual passes (that we all buy because we've done the math and its cheaper than buying general admission)...

Its "shocking" to see the price increase. It is not however, drastically out of line.

 

[tcherjen]

I do think they are becoming too high.... Not sure if we will continue to go.

 

[Budshark]

Just more thoughts...

Growing up in Southern California - we would have never dreamed of a season pass. I went to Disney less than 1 time a year. We NEVER stayed on property. There were no character meals.

Now with my kids, I wouldn't go without staying on property. We always stay 4-8 nights. We visit all parks multiple times. There's always a character meal or two. There's always an extra (party, desert event, etc).

There is no comparison. In the 70s and 80s, Disneyland was a local theme park with the rich and famous staying at the Disneyland Hotel for 1-2 nights. Disney world was opened as a destination. And it still can be. Go every 2-3 years, stay 4 nights, stay in a value. Family of 4 is in and out for under $2000. Thats under $500/person. Thats just over $100/day for ticket, parking, hotel. In the grand scheme of things - cheap. Its just there's a lot more options out there that we'd all like to experience and choose to give to our kids. So Disney gives that to us. But the "cheap" Disney in line with the previous costs is still there.

Oh, and back "in the day" we stood for 180 minutes, in the blistering sun, to get on Space Mountain. We ran and pushed everyone out of our way if the line was actually not at the bottom of the escalator!

 

[wilkeliza]

@Budshark Your price breakdown versus average family income made the point I was going to make pretty easily.

For people who thought $5 for 1 person was an easy thing to drop back in the 50s go find someone who was alive then and ask them that.

 

[JimmyV]

in 1955, 1 day was .007% of annual income (using the $4,137 average household income)
In 2015, 1 day is .008% of annual income (using reported $51,759 average household income)

I showed why this math doesn't work earlier in the thread. When something is so small a fraction of one's income that there has to be multiple zeros to the right of the decimal point, then comparisons fail. What matters more is what types of things were comparable in price to a Disney vacation. In 1971, if you wanted to take your family to Disney World for the day, you would have to spend the equivalent of around three tanks of gas. (22 gallon tank in a Chrysler Imperial at $0.50 per gallon). Today, your $415 number is the equivalent of 10 tanks of gas. (16 gallon tank at $2.50 per gallon). When three tanks of gas becomes 10 tanks of gas, all of a sudden, .007% doesn't look quite as close to .008%, now does it?

 

[Budshark]

I showed why this math doesn't work earlier in the thread. When something is so small a fraction of one's income that there has to be multiple zeros to the right of the decimal point, then comparisons fail. What matters more is what types of things were comparable in price to a Disney vacation. In 1971, if you wanted to take your family to Disney World for the day, you would have to spend the equivalent of around three tanks of gas. (22 gallon tank in a Chrysler Imperial at $0.50 per gallon). Today, your $415 number is the equivalent of 10 tanks of gas. (16 gallon tank at $2.50 per gallon). When three tanks of gas becomes 10 tanks of gas, all of a sudden, .007% doesn't look quite as close to .008%, now does it?

Nah... its all good.

You can go 811 miles in your Imperial.
I got 4,000 miles out of my 2015 Chrysler 300 and the 160 gallons.

 

[flicx]

The Disney of pre-1984 will never come back and this is a good thing. The Disney of the 1970's was en route to failure and at this point would have probably been sold for parts if they didn't make changes to may things.

This is pure opinion. How much of the pre 1984 Disney still exists today? Answer, a ton of it, basically the foundation of the magic kingdom and EPCOT and many iconic hotels. My opinion is the pre 84 Disney started it all and has been demonstrated that it was at a level allowing affordability to a broader spectrum of families. One thing Disney should never become is a high end luxury item only available for the use of the wealthy like a Bushwood from caddie shack. That's my opinion.

 

[5kidsmommy]

Just more thoughts...

Growing up in Southern California - we would have never dreamed of a season pass. I went to Disney less than 1 time a year. We NEVER stayed on property. There were no character meals.

Now with my kids, I wouldn't go without staying on property. We always stay 4-8 nights. We visit all parks multiple times. There's always a character meal or two. There's always an extra (party, desert event, etc).

There is no comparison. In the 70s and 80s, Disneyland was a local theme park with the rich and famous staying at the Disneyland Hotel for 1-2 nights. Disney world was opened as a destination. And it still can be. Go every 2-3 years, stay 4 nights, stay in a value. Family of 4 is in and out for under $2000. Thats under $500/person. Thats just over $100/day for ticket, parking, hotel. In the grand scheme of things - cheap. Its just there's a lot more options out there that we'd all like to experience and choose to give to our kids. So Disney gives that to us. But the "cheap" Disney in line with the previous costs is still there.

Oh, and back "in the day" we stood for 180 minutes, in the blistering sun, to get on Space Mountain. We ran and pushed everyone out of our way if the line was actually not at the bottom of the escalator!

Are you me?!?

I also grew up in Southern California in the 70s/80s and we went maybe once a year, it was a treat. I never had a sit down meal at Disneyland or annual passes until I was a married woman and paid for them myself. I remember one time a friend invited me to spend a weekend at Disney and we stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, it was so amazing. When I went as an adult my husband and I always stayed at the Heidi Inn, not exactly luxury accommodations but wonderful memories.

You description of standing in line for Space Mountain cracked me up because that is exactly how it was. My kids don't like waiting for more than 30 minutes and I always want to break out the "in my day" speech. Thanks for the memories and laughter.

 

[the advocate]

WDW certainly was an "anyone can go" vacation back in the day.

I grew up in an upper middle class family in Atlanta and my parents never, ever took us to WDW as it was way out of their budget. However, I do remember my very well-off grandfather bringing us to Disney in the late 70's and I recall walking past the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride and wondering why we couldn't ride it. Yep, ol' granddad didn't splurge for the expensive e-ticket attractions. Too expensive.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm just the opposite of some of you. My parents certainly never went even though they travelled extensively at various times but things have changed dramatically for me. I used to stay at the Polynesian Resort without blinking an eye. Now I'm trying to decide if a budget resort is worth the money. I'm not poorer but Disney is definitely richer.

 

[flicx]

I'm just the opposite of some of you. My parents certainly never went even though they travelled extensively at various times but things have changed dramatically for me. I used to stay at the Polynesian Resort without blinking an eye. Now I'm trying to decide if a budget resort is worth the money. I'm not poorer but Disney is definitely richer.

Amen Planogirl. When we went to Disney in the 90's and early 2000's I used my second job money from being a high school coach to go to Disney. It paid for it all. Now if I still had that job it wouldn't come close!